The Trinity, from the JW view.

[mee]

ISA 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ISA 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

VERY TRUE INDEED



"YOU are my witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior." isaiah 43;10-11


"You are my witnesses." Heb., ’at·tem´ ‛e·dhai´, pl.; Lat., vos te´stes me´i.



"Even my servant," M(Heb., we‛av·di´, sing.)LXXVg; T(Aram.), we·‛av·dhi´ me·shi·cha’´, "even my servant, the anointed"; Sy, "servants."



Or, "and after me there came [or, will come] to be none."

 

[mee]

ISA 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

l

YES besides him there is no God




This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God isaiah 44;6

"God." Heb., ’Elo·him´.

 

[mee]

JOH 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In [the] beginning the Word
(Or, "the Logos." Gr., ho lo´gos; Lat., Ver´bum; J17,18,22(Heb.), had·Da·var´.)was,


and the Word was with God,
Lit., "was toward the God." Gr., en pros ton The·on´; J17,18(Heb.), ha·yah´ ’eth ha·’Elo·him´.


and the Word was a god.
A god." Gr., the·os´, in contrast with ton The·on´, "the God," in the same sentence; J17,18(Heb.), we’·lo·him´, "and god."
2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.JOHN 1;1-3

Jesus A Godlike One; Divine​

Joh 1:1—"and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)"​

Gr., καὶ θεὸςη̉̃νὁ λόγος (kai the·os´ en ho lo´gos)​

 

[mee]

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him
(The Jews knew that Jesus claim in vs. 30 was that "He was God". Ergo, they wanted to stone him, the appropriate scriptural punishment for such blasphemy.)

I and the Father are one. JOHN 10;30
Or, "at unity." Lit., "one (thing)." Gr., hen, neuter, to show oneness in cooperation.


But did not Jesus say on one occasion, "I and the Father are one"? (John 10:30) Yes, he did.

However, that statement does not even suggest a "Trinity," since he spoke of only two as being one, not three. Jesus was surely not contradicting the scriptures we have already read.

What he meant by this expression he himself made clear later when he prayed regarding his followers that "they may be one just as we are one." (John 17:22)
Jesus and his Father are "one" in that Jesus is in full harmony with his Father. And he prayed that all his followers might likewise be in harmony with his Father, with Jesus and with one another.



Jesus describes to the Jews ,his close relationship with his Father, explaining: "I and the Father are one." Since Jesus is on earth and his Father is in heaven, clearly he is not saying that he and his Father are literally, or physically, one. Rather, he means that they are one in purpose, that they are at unity.

Angered by Jesus’ words, the Jews pick up stones to kill him, even as they had earlier, during the Festival of Tabernacles, or Booths.

Courageously facing his would-be murderers, Jesus says: "I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?"


"We are stoning you, not for a fine work," they answer, "but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god." Since Jesus never claimed to be a god, why do the Jews say this?


Evidently it is because Jesus attributes to himself powers that they believe belong exclusively to God. For example, he just said of the "sheep," "I give them everlasting life," which is something no human can do. The Jews, however, overlook the fact that Jesus acknowledges receiving authority from his Father.
​

so yes they did make a wrong thought about Jesus .

Why do they not believe? Because of lack of evidence that Jesus is the Christ? No, but for the reason Jesus gives when he tells them: "You are none of my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. What my Father has given me is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father."


they were angry because Jesus told the truth about them .

 

[mee]

[SIZE=+0]COL 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.[/SIZE]

because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.



Divine quality." Lit., "godship." Gr., the·o´te·tos; Lat., di·vi·ni·ta´tis.




Colossians

2:9:​

KJ​

​

reads: "In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead [Greek, the·o´te·tos] bodily." (A similar thought is conveyed by the renderings in NE, RS, JB, NAB, Dy.) However, NW reads: "It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily." (AT, We, and CKW read "God’s nature," instead of "Godhead." Compare 2 Peter 1:4.)​

Admittedly, not everyone offers the same interpretation of Colossians 2:9. But what is in agreement with the rest of the inspired letter to the Colossians?

Did Christ have in himself something that is his because he is God, part of a Trinity? Or is "the fullness" that dwells in him something that became his because of the decision of someone else? Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy) says that all fullness dwelt in Christ because it "pleased the Father" for this to be the case. NE says it was "by God’s own choice."


Consider the immediate context of Colossians 2:9: In verse 8, readers are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human traditions.


They are also told that in Christ "are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" and are urged to "live in him" and to be "rooted and built up in him and established in the faith." (Verses 3, 6, 7) It is in him, and not in the originators or the teachers of human philosophy, that a certain precious "fulness" dwells. Was the apostle Paul there saying that the "fulness" that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not according to Colossians 3:1, where Christ is said to be "seated at the right hand of God."—See KJ, Dy, TEV, NAB.





According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·o´tes (the nominative form, from which the·o´te·tos is derived) means "divinity, divine nature." (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being truly "divinity," or of "divine nature," does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, any more than the fact that all humans share "humanity" or "human nature" makes them coequal or all the same age.​

​

​

​

 

[mee]

[SIZE=+0]ACT 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? ACT 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.






[/SIZE]

However, a certain man, An·a·ni´as by name, together with Sap·phi´ra his wife, sold a possession 2 and secretly held back some of the price, his wife also knowing about it, and he brought just a part and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. 3 But Peter said: "An·a·ni´as, why has Satan emboldened you to play false to the holy spirit and to hold back secretly some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you did it not remain yours, and after it was sold did it not continue in your control? Why was it that you purposed such a deed as this in your heart? You have played false, not to men, but to God."



not sure what your point is ?, telling lies is a no no. and the true God knows what is going on .


Whenever you vow a vow to God, do not hesitate to pay it, for there is no delight in the stupid ones. What you vow, pay. ECCLESS 5;4

Liars Exposed​

Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, however, quit acknowledging Jehovah as their Ruler. (5:1-11) They sold a field and kept some of the money while pretending to give the apostles all of it. Knowledge imparted by God’s spirit enabled Peter to discern their hypocrisy, leading to their death. What a warning to those whom Satan tempts to be devious!—Proverbs 3:32; 6:16-19.​

 

[mee]

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]EXO 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. EXO 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. [/SIZE]




[SIZE=+0]v/r[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Q[/SIZE]


[/SIZE]

2

"I am Jehovah your God,
(Or, "I, Jehovah, am your God.")

who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3 You must not have any other gods​

("Not . . . any other gods." Heb., lo’ . . . ’elo·him´ ’ache·rim´; Gr., the·oi´.)

against my face.​

(Or, "gods in defiance of me.")




why not?
because JEHOVAH IS THE MOST HIGH.

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. PSALM 83;18​

​

​

 

[Dor]

Admittedly, not everyone offers the same interpretation of Colossians 2:9. But what is in agreement with the rest of the inspired letter to the Colossians?
​

Thats is the problem Mee is that the Watchtower just changes everything to fit their doctrine.
​

 

[pattimax]

As James tells us: "Be ye doers of the Word, and not hearers only."

I sincerely doubt that the Holy Spirit is grieved when frauds are pointed out...

and speaking of truth...
I checked out the two bablylons on wiki- "Although extensively footnoted, MANY historians (including Ralph Woodrow) have noted there are many misconceptions and serious factual errors in the document."

What is truth? Do you have the same problem with honesty?

You know the bible has instructions for those with faith in the Lord. It's not a weapon. Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult and any claim otherwise is just more propaganda.

 

[Dream]

I think that they are very tightly controlled from the top down.

 

[pattimax]

Founded by Charles Taze Russell (born 1852), a former Congregationalist. Given the name Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931, to differentiate from the then "Watchtower" organization. Originally called the Dawn Bible Students and the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement.

Russell started out as a manager of several men's furnishing stores, and at the age of 18 Russell organized a bible class in Pittsburgh, PA. He was elected as Pastor in 1876. He founded the "Herald of the Morning" Magazine (1879), which turned into today's "Watchtower". Russell it seems was more interested in money making than his "Flock's" faith, charging a $1.00 a pound for his "Miracle Wheat", which the US government proved was of lower quality than the standard wheat available. His wife left him because of his questionable ethics, and he balked on paying her alimony, until once again the government (courts) had to step in.

Today the Jehovah's Witnesses corporation "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society", makes a great deal of money selling food, wood for furniture and other items of sustenance, as well as running a Bible School, "Gilead" and other enterprises.

The group is noted for failed prophecies of the end of the world (the last one in 1975), caused the group to lose tens of thousands of members.

Their belief system is based on Arius of Alexandria (336 AD), and profess that Jehovah is God's only true name, God is not a Trinity, the Trinity is a pagan idea, Jesus is not God, Jesus is lesser than the Father, Jesus "was" Michael the Archangel, the incarnate Jesus had only one nature, Jesus died on a stake not a cross, Jesus did not complete the work of Salvation, Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, Jesus will not return at the second coming in physical form, the Holy Spirit is not a person, but a force, nor is He God, Salvation is through works, hell does not exist, there is no conscious existence after death, there are two peoples of God, false prophets are not recognizable, and they have the collective ability to prophesize.

 

[Dream]

Apparently, requiring people to submit to a centralized religious authority doesn't create unity among believers. Maybe if things were more open for discussion, the organization wouldn't be butting heads with God so much. I think we have a tendency to think we have the power to preserve knowledge of the truth through our human efforts, but the truth is that we don't.

I was looking up some information about the same thing. It appears that Russell died, and then things really started to change. Lots of people left and formed other un-trendy(un-trinity) Bible groups, which are not as well known. Other groups were founded before Russell was born and have nothing to do with him. The idea keeps coming up without Russell's help, in other words.

 

[mee]

Thats is the problem Mee is that the Watchtower just changes everything to fit their doctrine.
[/left]
[/left]
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or rather goes along with the rest of the bible , and the rest of collosians , rather than making it fit a manmade doctrine .

 

[mee]

You know the bible has instructions for those with faith in the Lord. It's not a weapon. Jehovahs Witnesses are a cult and any claim otherwise is just more propaganda.

yes the bible certainly does have instruction for those with faith in Jehovah and his son Jesus christ.

and the bible itself tells us that GODS WORD(the bible) is sharper than a two edged sword.
The message in God’s written Word is "sharper than any two-edged sword." it has such tremendous penetrating power that it exceeds any human instrument or tool.

The Word of God pierces the innermost parts of a person and can change him inwardly, affecting how he thinks and what he loves, making him an acceptable, godly worker. What a powerful tool!



For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart HEBREWS 4;12.


So talking about propaganda

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."—Attributed to MARK TWAIN.


many lies are spread about JEHOVAHS WITNESSES as is very clear to see

 

[mee]

I think that they are very tightly controlled from the top down.

unity indeed , just like Jesus and his father JEHOVAH AND IT IS VERY GOOD it produces a real big GREAT CROWD from all nations and they are all waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome Gods reigning king

REVELATION 7;9-10

After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb."


and what is even better about this GREAT CROWD is that they have all been taught by the most high and his son Jesus christ , and they have beaten their litral swords into plow shares. they are doing things inline with the most high and it is very good .


micah 4;1-4



And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream. 2 And many nations will certainly go and say: "Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths." For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 3 And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].

 

[mee]

Apparently, requiring people to submit to a centralized religious authority doesn't create unity among believers. Maybe if things were more open for discussion, the organization wouldn't be butting heads with God so much. I think we have a tendency to think we have the power to preserve knowledge of the truth through our human efforts, but the truth is that we don't.

I was looking up some information about the same thing. It appears that Russell died, and then things really started to change. Lots of people left and formed other un-trendy(un-trinity) Bible groups, which are not as well known. Other groups were founded before Russell was born and have nothing to do with him. The idea keeps coming up without Russell's help, in other words.

Their Modern Development and Growth many things happened years ago but now in this time of the end things are moving a head very nicely. and it is all very good and inline with the bible which is even better good reading link

 

[mee]

Founded by Charles Taze Russell (born 1852), a former Congregationalist. Given the name Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931, to differentiate from the then "Watchtower" organization. Originally called the Dawn Bible Students and the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement.

Russell started out as a manager of several men's furnishing stores, and at the age of 18 Russell organized a bible class in Pittsburgh, PA. He was elected as Pastor in 1876. He founded the "Herald of the Morning" Magazine (1879), which turned into today's "Watchtower". Russell it seems was more interested in money making than his "Flock's" faith, charging a $1.00 a pound for his "Miracle Wheat", which the US government proved was of lower quality than the standard wheat available. His wife left him because of his questionable ethics, and he balked on paying her alimony, until once again the government (courts) had to step in. Today the Jehovah's Witnesses corporation "Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society", makes a great deal of money selling food, wood for furniture and other items of sustenance, as well as running a Bible School, "Gilead" and other enterprises.

The group is noted for failed prophecies of the end of the world (the last one in 1975), caused the group to lose tens of thousands of members.

Their belief system is based on Arius of Alexandria (336 AD), and profess that Jehovah is God's only true name, God is not a Trinity, the Trinity is a pagan idea, Jesus is not God, Jesus is lesser than the Father, Jesus "was" Michael the Archangel, the incarnate Jesus had only one nature, Jesus died on a stake not a cross, Jesus did not complete the work of Salvation, Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, Jesus will not return at the second coming in physical form, the Holy Spirit is not a person, but a force, nor is He God, Salvation is through works, hell does not exist, there is no conscious existence after death, there are two peoples of God, false prophets are not recognizable, and they have the collective ability to prophesize.

If you are after accurate knowledge here is a good reading link, rather than becoming a bit mixed up as you seem to be in your post.



Jehovah’s Witnesses—Who Are They? What Do They Believe?

 

[pattimax]

If you are after accurate knowledge here is a good reading link, rather than becoming a bit mixed up as you seem to be in your post.



Jehovah’s Witnesses—Who Are They? What Do They Believe?

Yes. Jehovah Witnesses on the whole are nice people. However, among other things they believe salvation is through works.

God's true word teaches that salvation is only dependent on your belief in Jesus Christ. Spreading the gospel is something you do out of love for the Lord and love for other people. He loves you unconditionally. That's it.

Posting links and arguing that you're right, promoting doctrine that is elitist (only a few with special knowledge will be saved), and ignoring God's grace is not "in line with the bible."

Mixed up? How? And do not post a link. I want specifics.

 

[Dream]

Some guideline for recognizing Jesus' return

So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.

Luke 11:33 "No one after lighting a lamp puts it in a cellar or under a bushel, but on a stand, that those who enter may see the light.

Matthew 11:4-6 and said to him, "Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?" And Jesus answered them, "Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is he who takes no offense at me."

 

[mee]

this is what the bible says

Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.JAMES 2;26


Faith, like muscles of the human body, must be nourished and also exercised, if spiritual atrophy is to be avoided.


James strikingly emphasized the necessity of displaying one’s faith by means of godly works.

He wrote: "Indeed, as the body without breath is dead, so also faith without works is dead." (Jas. 2:26)

These are not works of the Law given by Jehovah to the Israelites, but are activities that show a person possesses faith. (Gal. 2:15, 16) actions speak louder than words so to speak.


in essence, when we accept and adhere willingly to what Jehovah tells us to do in his inspired Word.

Your word is a lamp to my foot,
And a light to my roadway.​

Psalm 119:105)



The disciple James argues in the second chapter of his epistle: "‘You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from the works, and I shall show you my faith by my works.’ JAMES 2;18