where did all the water go?

wil said:
I wonder what else will dramatically fill up when the sea crests some mark and a river begins to reverse....
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Rivers reversing? I haven't thought about that yet. Damn. That has frightening implications.

The more I think about climate change, the more intricate and prone to catastrophe it becomes. A small degree of change may seem inconsequential at face value, but once we start taking into account that changes create systems of feedback that lead to more change, we see how interconnected and balanced/dynamic climate is.

My fiance was at a conference yesterday where someone was speaking about climate change. This person said that global temperatures have risen .6 degrees (I'm not sure about what the time frame is on that rise). That might not seem like a whole lot, but when complemented by this other bit of information--if global temperature dropped 2 degrees celsius, the Earth would be in an ice age--it becomes quite a bit more significant.
 
Dream said:
Los Angeles is usually where it happens in the movies.
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Considering the amount of concrete/pavement in Los Angeles, and its location right next to the Pacific, those movies might not be as sensational as they often appear.

Except for Escape from L.A.


escapefromlaposter.jpg
 
There is also my favourite. which has a substantial weight of marine archaeological evidence now supporting it, of the Black Sea Inundation.
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Cool. If I understand correctly, the flood was meant to cleanse a violent country of its population but not to completely change the landscape. The major rivers used as geographical reference points in Genesis exist before and after the flood.

The L!RD's nation Israel is often represented as 'Earth' in the scriptures, so going backwards into Genesis it makes sense to me that the flood destroying the earth refers to a previous nation that was destroyed before Israel. I suspect the idea is that the L!RD did destroy in the past another 'Israel' completely, starting over with Noah. It seems like this is the background for the account in which Moses intercedes with the L!RD for Israel. I suggest that when the L!RD threatened to wipe Israel off the map and start over with Moses, Moses knew that there was already a precedent for it. The L!RD's people had been destroyed before -- whatever nation Noah had come from.
Exodus 32:9-10 said:
And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
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I suppose it was by his knowledge of Jewish tradition that Paul says Noah condemned the 'world' by going into the ark (Hebrews 11:7). This then creates a huge contrast between Noah and Moses (who look so much alike in pictures!) Noah condemned sin and humanity when he entered the ark, but Moses interceded for the man, condemning only the sin. This is a sacred part of the Christian tradition, the basis for many things. No doubt we got it from the Jews.
I Peter 3:20-21 said:
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
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wil said:
Namaste mee,

Last time he and ye were talking what did he say about the flood?
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(Matthew 24:38, 39) is where Jesus referred to the flood .
In addition to the Genesis account, there are many references to Noah or the Deluge by others in in the Bible.
 
mee said:
(Matthew 24:38, 39) is where Jesus referred to the flood .
In addition to the Genesis account, there are many references to Noah or the Deluge by others in in the Bible.
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Namaste mee,

Do you think since Jesus used so much metaphor, analogy and parable in his speak it may be because he saw it in the scripture he studied?

This passage in particular he indicates that we won't know what is coming, one family was told just in time for the occasion yet no one else knew. Funny today how so many believe they know....just like then?
 
Tao_Equus said:
There is also my favourite. which has a substantial weight of marine archaeological evidence now supporting it, of the Black Sea Inundation.

This is quite a good link to NG which discusses that and the many other flood myths.

National Geographic: Noah’s Flood/Black Sea Expedition
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Ah! Ballard! The fellow who found the Titanic. I was much less impressed by this particular work (a shame really, he has done so much better research on other things). I did learn a bit about the Black Sea though, like how there is a "dead zone" beneath a certain depth, unlike any other large water body on Earth.

Now, a really good geologist who tackled the Flood problem is Glen Morton. I'll see if I can find a link to his stuff...

Here we go:

Noah's Flood Page

Which is a master list of a number of articles about the Flood by Morton, including:

Review of John Woodmorappe's Book

Global Flood

and this:

Black Sea Flood

which refutes the Black Sea theory with the substantial weight of multiple geologic researchers and the trade publication Marine Geology. :D
 
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Dream said:
Los Angeles is usually where it happens in the movies.
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It was also where a real live dam burst happened above L.A. many years ago. That is why the arroyos have been paved, which turns them into a really neat place to stage various movie scenes like the drag race in Grease and the chase scene in Terminator 2 (?) with the tow truck and the motorcycle.

It's kinda funny to drive across the delta of the Los Angeles river, a bridge I remember as a kid being about a mile or so across, but it seemed like a person could step across the water in the river below... :eek:

March 12, 1928: To Die in L.A.

The St. Francis Dam Disaster : NPR

It took over five and a half hours for the waters to reach the Pacific Ocean. As the wave approached Montalvo, flood waters hit speeds of five miles per hour. Bodies were recovered in the Pacific Ocean - as far south as the Mexican border.
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Remembering the St. Francis Dam - 80 years later

A little about the L.A. river (such as it is):

Numerous films, video games, and television programs have featured various sites along the Los Angeles River, many of which involve the river as a sinister plot location. Films that include the river, Chinatown, Them!, Blue Thunder, Escape from L.A., Terminator 2: Judgment Day, Grease, Volcano, Point Blank, Roadblock, Hot Rod Girl, Blood In Blood Out , Boomtown, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Midnight Club II, Rize, The Core, Repo Man, The Italian Job, Point Break, Gone in 60 Seconds,Transformers (2007 film), 24 (TV series), The Gumball Rally, To Live and Die in L.A., The First Power, and many others.
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Los Angeles River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like, gnarly dude! Totally righteous!
 
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wil said:
Namaste mee,

Do you think since Jesus used so much metaphor, analogy and parable in his speak it may be because he saw it in the scripture he studied?

This passage in particular he indicates that we won't know what is coming, one family was told just in time for the occasion yet no one else knew. Funny today how so many believe they know....just like then?
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38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.


yes , today is just as it was in Noahs day, people take no note of the way to salvation.

but just carry on doing the normal things , not that the normal things are wrong , they are not wrong, but to carry on and ignore the warnings that are being made known will end in tears just as it did in Noahs day .

when the flood did happen it was not Noah who shut the door of the ark but it was God himself .

now in this time of the end the warning is going out to put our trust in the GOODNEWS of the kingdom. matthew 24;14.

it is for a witness, or in other words to put people on notice .

but there will come a time when Jehovah will shut the door of the way to salvation. some will be saved in the great tribulation , and some will have chosen to not respond to the GOODNEWS.


yes NOW is the day of salvation , no one knows the day or hour when things will break out , but responding to the GOODNEWS and getting on board with the rest of the GREAT CROWD is the thing to do because then we can get through the GREAT TRIBULATION REVELATION 7;9-10,14,:)

It will be to late when Jehovah shuts the symbolic door .
 
So, Juantoo. Have you read either of Glen Morton's book? Taking a look at the site you posted, it looks at first like a faith-killer (but its not intended to be). In fact Glen Morton nearly proves on his site that the evidence refuses any correlation between Noah and the sciences, whatsoever. Then he says his books are my salvation - a way that I can interpret the flood both Biblically and Scientifically. Just when I thought all was lost Glen Morton gave me relief, but I'm wondering if you've already read his books since they're 30$. What's the scoop?
 
Dream said:
So, Juantoo. Have you read either of Glen Morton's book? Taking a look at the site you posted, it looks at first like a faith-killer (but its not intended to be). In fact Glen Morton nearly proves on his site that the evidence refuses any correlation between Noah and the sciences, whatsoever. Then he says his books are my salvation - a way that I can interpret the flood both Biblically and Scientifically. Just when I thought all was lost Glen Morton gave me relief, but I'm wondering if you've already read his books since they're 30$. What's the scoop?
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Fair enough question. I wasn't aware he had written any books per se, let alone for sale. All of his material I have read came off the web from this site and the one he had previously.

I'm not selling anything. If it helps and its still available, Morton has an essay that explains his point of view.

I became a Christian in my sophomore year of college. The people who had led me to the Lord immediately began my discipleship. They taught me to evangelize and they taught me what they felt a Christian should believe. But most importantly they were a loving family of believers which was a welcome oasis for someone like me whose home life had been less than familial. Thus, when I was told that Christians must believe in a young-earth and a global flood, I went along willingly. I believed. Being a physics major in college I had not taken any geology courses. I knew there were physics problems, but I thought I could to solve them.
When I graduated from college, physicists were unemployable since NASA had just laid a bunch of them off. I did graduate work in philosophy and then decided to leave school to support my growing family. After six months, I found work as a geophysicist working for a seismic company. Within a year, I was processing seismic data for a major oil company.
This was where I first became exposed to the problems geology presented to the idea of a global flood.
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transform

I like Morton's work because it is not the spastic knee jerk bid to put the Bible narrative as the reality and build the facts around it. Rather he starts with the evidence (as any student should) and shows how the Bible narrative "fits." He has some absolutely amazing if dry and intellectual essays dealing with evolution and Adam, which is how I first stumbled on his work.

I have even heard atheists give Morton's scholarship praise, and his work is peer reviewed and frequently published in various trade journals. That's saying something when an atheist recognizes the research of a Christian. ;)
 
Yeah. It says something both for him and the atheists. I've had a similar experience to him, although it was much less involved. I used to get ICR pamphlets when I was a teen. I started to see the guys at ICR as head-bangers. They were coming up with some foo-foo proofs that earth was young -- like just anything. They tried to estimate the rate of escape of Helium from the earth's crust, second-guess the half life of Plutonium, etc (well I guess that's still debatable). The upshot was that it was just not credible, and legitimate researchers were writing legitimate exposes against ICR materials. It was terribly disappointing. It was the blind leading the blind, and still is. I hope it wasn't intentional, but it was certainly negligent. It also created an equal and opposite response from the scientific community -- an outpouring of vehemence that can only be described as a social big bang.

Anyway, thanks for the link!
 
If you look at the world map you'll see that during some period, the water levels have risen. The population during Noah's time was not that large?
 
Maybe I'm a little late to the party but just a few thoughts.

Where did all the water go? We picture Noah's flood as a big lake or ocean rising several feet above the tallest mountain. Although some areas may have been completely covered, others may have been flooded by torrential rain, causing erosion, etc. Also large wave actions could have resulted in flooding at some of the higher land levels. Regardless of the exact mechanism, I do believe that Noah's flood was a universal flood and not a local flood.

Due to the way most of us were taught in school, science is truth and anything that can't be explained scientifically is a myth. Since Creation, Noah's flood, the waters parting for Moses, etc. cannot be explained "scientifically", they must be a myth. The mistake there is to conclude that all the "scientific" data we have is accurate and that we have enough knowledge of science that there are no scientific principles that might "override" what we know. I dare say that we probably know less than 1% of the scientific knowledge which exists in the universe. My God knows a 100%, I don't know about yours.

A miracle is something that God does "scientifically" according to the rules and laws He has established in this Universe, but can't be explained by man's current knowledge.
 
Luke 16:31 said:
He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'"
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Why do people feel it is necessary for them to prove that the Bible is true because of this or that miracle? Miracles are useless for that maneuver.
Judges 6:30-32 said:
Then the men of the town said to Joash, "Bring out your son, that he may die, for he has pulled down the altar of Baal and cut down the Asherah beside it." But Joash said to all who were arrayed against him, "Will you contend for Baal? Or will you defend his cause? Whoever contends for him shall be put to death by morning. If he is a god, let him contend for himself, because his altar has been pulled down." Therefore on that day he was called Jerubbaal, that is to say, "Let Baal contend against him," because he pulled down his altar.
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Speaking of water...
Judges 7:7 said:
And the LORD said to Gideon, "With the three hundred men that lapped I will deliver you, and give the Midianites into your hand; and let all the others go every man to his home."
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I Corinthians 13:8 said:
Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
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kf123 said:
Due to the way most of us were taught in school, science is truth and anything that can't be explained scientifically is a myth. Since Creation, Noah's flood, the waters parting for Moses, etc. cannot be explained "scientifically", they must be a myth. The mistake there is to conclude that all the "scientific" data we have is accurate and that we have enough knowledge of science that there are no scientific principles that might "override" what we know. I dare say that we probably know less than 1% of the scientific knowledge which exists in the universe. My God knows a 100%, I don't know about yours.

A miracle is something that God does "scientifically" according to the rules and laws He has established in this Universe, but can't be explained by man's current knowledge.
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Kindest Regards, kf123, and welcome to CR!

Yours is a valid assessment regarding science, and it is one that has been raised a number of times before here. The trouble as I see it is, that while G-d may very well know 100% of the knowledge of the universe, we puny humans don't. That includes religion and sacred religious texts. So it is inaccurate to presume that because G-d knows something, that his followers also know something. It suggests a puny human has the capacity to know the mind of G-d. Come to think of it, wasn't that a part of the reason Satan was cast out of heaven; for thinking he could outsmart G-d and take over the place?

Put another way...the Bible is not a science book, it was never intended to be. It is a mistake I often see from both sides of the discussion; one side holds the Bible as scientifically true which it pretty obviously isn't, and the other side mocking because the Bible isn't scientifically true when it wasn't composed for that purpose.

Science is geared to address questions of "how?"

Religion is geared to address questions of "why?"

Pitting them against each other is foolishness and nonsense. In my opinion. ;)
 
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