When is it appropriate to share your religious faith with others?

seattlegal said:
I'm not sure about the lack of faith thing, especially when it comes to the question of the origin of life. I certainly do not have enough faith to believe in abiogenesis when the odds of it occurring are so overwhelmingly remote.
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Are they? Please explain why you think so.
 
bob x said:
I'm sorry Dondi, but I am completely unable to summon up the willing-suspension-of-disbelief to imagine for a minute that this saccharine story is remotely true. Even if, by some chance, it IS true, it just doesn't work. It has the smell of heavy-handed propaganda all over it.
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Boy, aren't we cynical. But evidently, you aren't willing to believe it even if you knew for sure it was true. What do you mean 'it just doesn't work', even if the story is true? You don't think that knocking on the door saved the woman from offing herself, or what?

You want to call propaganda on this, how so?
 
path_of_one said:
My point was that even if we *do* suspend disbelief, it only highlights, for me, how pathetic our society is. For all we know, the lady would have felt better if someone had just come by for a chat, or had come from a local charity and engaged her in some useful action.

In the story, she wasn't lonely because she didn't have Jesus. She was lonely because she didn't have the love of other human beings. Finding a community (church) that she could go to ended her loneliness. But there's nothing about that to indicate that it being a church was what helped. Could have been a coven, a knitting circle, a volunteer organization, an adopt-a-grandmother family, whatever.
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You may be right, path. But how often do covens, knitting circles, volunteer organizations, or adopt-a-grandmother family go door to door? Fact is, she found a community church, after someone visited her from it. There are plenty of lonely people who don't visit churches on their own because they are shy. It's nice to be invited sometimes. I mean, how often do you crash parties without an invitation?
 
seattlegal said:
I'm not sure about the lack of faith thing, especially when it comes to the question of the origin of life. I certainly do not have enough faith to believe in abiogenesis when the odds of it occurring are so overwhelmingly remote.
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Tao_Equus said:
Are they? Please explain why you think so.
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Alex already did a pretty good job here.

Dawud said:
True, it does take faith to be atheist. If you're familiar with the book the Prisoner and the Kings by William Sears or a book called the Challenge of Baha'u'llah, you'll see that the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of super-human knowledge... knowledge from outside of mankind given to us through the Manifestations of God. (are you a Baha'i? I'm writing this in assumption that you're a Baha'i, otherwise you might not have heard of the books I mentioned above.)
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I'm a Christian. :)
 
Alex P said:
Wow.... I got praise from SG? Nice.. :D

SG, you're a Christian? In what sense.....? Or a real Christian? lol... (Confused.com.... Not saying you're not one!!! Just.... I thought chu was one them buddhists?)
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Yes, Alex, I am a Christian. {It's just so much fun yacking it up with people of other faiths. I suppose there might be those who might look on me with contempt for associating with heathens and tax collectors, just as there were those who looked at Jesus with contempt for doing so.}
 
seattlegal said:
Alex already did a pretty good job here.
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So your answer is that a bunch of bullshit numbers dreamed up to be the most exaggerated far fetched possible analysis of half truths is a good reason to think? I always thought more of you than that.

tao
 
Tao_Equus said:
So your answer is that a bunch of bullshit numbers dreamed up to be the most exaggerated far fetched possible analysis of half truths is a good reason to think? I always thought more of you than that.

tao
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Actually, Tao, when I was a child, I subscribed to all the scientific explanations. However, when I increased in my studies and closely examined these explanations and held them to scientific principles, I recognized them as being implausable. Then I started looking at alternative explanations. It's the scientific way. :)
 
seattlegal said:
Actually, Tao, when I was a child, I subscribed to all the scientific explanations. However, when I increased in my studies and closely examined these explanations and held them to scientific principles, I recognized them as being implausable. Then I started looking at alternative explanations. It's the scientific way. :)
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The sudden spontaneous generation of left handed amino acids on primeval Earth is implausible. But that is nowhere close to current thinking on this issue. The mathematical models of the creationists ignore that fact. Looking for supernatural causation is no way scientific.

tao
 
Dondi said:
Boy, aren't we cynical. But evidently, you aren't willing to believe it even if you knew for sure it was true. What do you mean 'it just doesn't work', even if the story is true? You don't t hink that knocking on the door saved the woman from offing herself, or what?

You want to call propaganda on this, how so?
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I'm sorry Dondi, but I would have to agree with Bob X on this one. If I were to justify doing something unpopular, a story like this would suit me fine. I get stories like this in my e-mail from my Dad all the time each with a similar plot line.
It's similar to Cyberpi dredging up "What If" scenarios to justify shaming people into allowing themselves to be imposed upon. I find the whole approach to be manipulative and controlling. The real advantage of using this kind of linguistic strategy is to keep anyone from objecting, for who could object to saving an old lonely lady's life?
Of course no one would object! but that is why it is so insidious, using peoples sense of fairness and compassion in order to further another agenda.
 
Paladin said:
I'm sorry Dondi, but I would have to agree with Bob X on this one. If I were to justify doing something unpopular, a story like this would suit me fine. I get stories like this in my e-mail from my Dad all the time each with a similar plot line.
It's similar to Cyberpi dredging up "What If" scenarios to justify shaming people into allowing themselves to be imposed upon. I find the whole approach to be manipulative and controlling. The real advantage of using this kind of linguistic strategy is to keep anyone from objecting, for who could object to saving an old lonely lady's life?
Of course no one would object! but that is why it is so insidious, using peoples sense of fairness and compassion in order to further another agenda.
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Hear hear!!
 
I think it comes down to relating this story be it true or false... I don't know to bible accounts.... True or false... I don't know, I have only heard from anothers account.... Just like Dondi has done with this story... I heard a few other stories simular lines when I was a JW.... So? Just because I have heard of stories where certain things have lead to saving another, doesn't mean that it is false, simply because it is kinda like some other story..... Dondi, may I thank you for sharing that post.. Be it true, be it false, it was worth the read in my opinion.
 
Dondi said:
You may be right, path. But how often do covens, knitting circles, volunteer organizations, or adopt-a-grandmother family go door to door? Fact is, she found a community church, after someone visited her from it. There are plenty of lonely people who don't visit churches on their own because they are shy. It's nice to be invited sometimes. I mean, how often do you crash parties without an invitation?
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I don't think most people in the US consider church a party. It's not as if people don't know churches are open to the public. I've never felt odd going to a new church or other public religious event uninvited. It's a public place. That'd be like me waiting for an invitation to go to the shopping mall or park.

As for others going around, my point is that it shouldn't come to door-knocking. It's not like anyone lives in a bubble. Where were these old lady's neighbors, the people at the grocery store, etc. She has to go somewhere and if we weren't running around "too busy" to notice when someone is lonely and talk to them, it wouldn't come to randomly knocking on people's doors. I can't speak for others, but I have no need to randomly knock on people's doors, because God brings me to the people who need it, or brings them to me.

Additionally, and not to sound like a heartless person (hopefully y'all know me well enough to know I love people), but where is the responsibility of people for their own lives? I mean, if the lady was lonely, she could go to a local senior citizens center and take some classes, join a women's group, volunteer at a local org, etc. Why do we assume she has no responsibility if she is miserable? When I'm miserable, I take responsibility for it. Yeah, the world might not be all roses, but I can definitely choose to do things to make myself happy or not. So maybe she is shy. Maybe she is grieving. Maybe she is depressed. Her and a lot of other people. Part of life is personal growth and learning to care for oneself, learning what one's needs are and filling these. Sometimes, this means looking at oneself honestly and saying, "If I'm feeling like I want to die, maybe I need to do something about that and see a counselor."

And, to answer your question further... when I did adopt-a grandparent, we did go around to senior citizens' homes around the neighborhood. Also, I have several charities that come to my door regularly. And I've been invited to join several non-Christian groups, including a women's spiritual and craft circle.

Now, perhaps you go to a rare church where the emphasis on serving others and not putting people in the pews, but my experience with door-to-door missionaries is that their primary emphasis is telling me how right they are and that I should convert.

Case in point- I am not a lonely old lady. I have my own religion. I tell them these things. And then I am told more verses, more about how people will burn in hell, more about how XYZ Church of Always Being Right is The Only Way to go to heaven, etc. etc.

So... my conclusion stands that, at least in my experience, most of the door-knockers care about being right and getting more people to agree with them and join their group. It's all about them and their feelings of wanting to be right, to feel the security of that correctness, to have their beliefs reinforced. They don't care in the least about me and my needs, or they would listen and be respectful to me about already having a religion/spirituality.
 
Dondi said:
Boy, aren't we cynical. But evidently, you aren't willing to believe it even if you knew for sure it was true.
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No, that's not what I meant.
Dondi said:
What do you mean 'it just doesn't work', even if the story is true?
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I mean that even if the story is true, it doesn't work for you to tell it, it just creates the impression "there go the Christians confabulating again."
Dondi said:
You don't think that knocking on the door saved the woman from offing herself, or what?
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No, I don't think there was any such woman in the first place.
Dondi said:
You want to call propaganda on this, how so?
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Because it's the kind of crap Christians always come up with. It's as sadly familiar as 17 making up his BS "probabilities" out of thin air, and seattle chiming in with stories about how she's scientifically investigated all the alternatives.
 
Namaste Dondi,

Actually I believe I've got that email before.

Now it could be true, it could be that he's been telling that story for ten years and it circulates elsewhere, but I got a feeling he got the email and thought it great to add to his talk.

Now the preacher would say it was a good story, true or not, the ends justifies the means. I would confront the preacher and say if true what were their names, the dad, the child, the lady.. If it isn't true modify the talk as it those it turns off by misleading and misguiding are as bad off as those it turns on by misleading and misguiding.

When your in the 'truth' business it is best to stick to it. It is a wonderful parable, a nice story with a moral, but it sounds like a door to door salesman's technique to me.
 
Paladin said:
It's similar to Cyberpi dredging up "What If" scenarios to justify shaming people into allowing themselves to be imposed upon. I find the whole approach to be manipulative and controlling. The real advantage of using this kind of linguistic strategy is to keep anyone from objecting, for who could object to saving an old lonely lady's life?
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Where is this "What If" scenario that you feel shame from... manipulated and controlled by?
 
cyberpi said:
Where is this "What If" scenario that you feel shame from... manipulated and controlled by?
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First of all I never mentioned feeling personally shamed by anything you said, please get your story straight.
Second, you felt the need to go on about how rude and selfish it is not to allow people to come to my doorstep using scenarios from your home area.
Don't even pretend not to know what I'm talking about here Cyberpi, it's cowardly and disingenuous.
I don't take kindly to the kind of BS you spout anyway .
 
seattlegal said:
I suppose there might be those who might look on me with contempt for associating with heathens and tax collectors
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Yeah I suppose, suppose there is....

Also, I suppose Christ looks upon you with a smile and favour, because you do... :)

John 13:34 "A new command I give to you.. Love on another, As I have loved you, so you, must love on another..."

eph 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with on another in love."

1 Thess 3:12 "May the lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and everyone else.... Just as ours, does for you."

Gal 5:13 "You, my brothers, were called to be free.... But, do not use your freedom to indulge in sinful nature, rather, serve one another in love."

Heb 10:24 "And let us consider how we may spur one another on, toward love and good deeds."
 
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