p_o_o,
I agree it can be hard. Whenever I remember the teaching as it appears in the Talmud, I hear it in the context of a hasidic story about two hasidim who went to their rebbe, the maggid of mezritz. They wanted to know how it was possible to praise G!d for the good and the bad. The rebbe didn't answer them. Instead he sent them to see Reb Zuzhia of Anipol to get their answer from him.
After a long journey they arrive in Anipol and head to the inn. They ask around about the great rabbi, Reb Zuzhia. The people at the inn that they speak with don't know who they're talking about. So they talk to the innkeeper. He scratches his head and says "Oh, you mean old Zuzhia" -- I don't remember exactly how it was worded the first time I came across the story but it makes me think of the scene in SW where Obi-Wan's name comes up in the Princess Leia recording. The innkeeper gives them directions to find Reb Zuzhia.
They head out and find themselves in the poorest part of town. There in the middle of two houses is a little shack. They can't believe this could be the home of Reb Zuzhia. So they go up and knock on the door: "Reb Zuzhia?"
"Come in, come in." He says. When they open the door they see a frail old man sitting at a table. He has one dusty book in front of him that's coming apart at the spine and one small window shines a small beam of light down on the book. "I don't have much to eat but if you are hungry, here, let me share this loaf of bread with you. I can get you some water if you'd like."
"Reb Zuzhia," they say. "Our rebbe, the maggid of meziritz, sent us to meet with you. We don't understand in the Talmud where it says we must praise G!d for the good as well as the bad. How is that possible?"
Reb Zuzhia scratches his head. "Well," he says. "I don't really know why the maggid would send you to me. I've never had a bad day in my life." With their question answered, they had back to their home in Mezritz.
Really I just looked for any excuse to tell that story because I like stories about Reb Zuzhia. I don't think most people are like Reb Zuzhia though. I think most of us who deal with that issue are more like the two hasidim. I can almost see them going back, having gotten their answer, and still not being able to live that answer but at least having a direction they can try to go. I don't know if I really agree with the answer either because I think there's some value in suffering, the potential for learning and growth and self-discovery.
I like the way that you talk about what you find in the pain. I think I may have had a similar experience when I was younger and broke my leg. I remember having an awareness that my leg must have been broken and not panicking. Everything seemed more real and I felt more present. I wonder what neuro-chemicals do that.
I like the other version of "There are no atheists in foxholes." "Man's extremity is G!d's opportunity." I think though, that in acknowledging the positive ways humans respond to suffering, it's important to acknowledge that it doesn't always happen that way. New Orleans is an example of that. I don't know what that means. I prefer the version where humans help each other and I want to believe that is the more human way of things playing out, but I don't know if that's true or not. I think we have tendencies that can go in either direction.
Suffering to me seems like an opportunity, but one that the people involved have to actively take advantage of.
-- Dauer
I agree it can be hard. Whenever I remember the teaching as it appears in the Talmud, I hear it in the context of a hasidic story about two hasidim who went to their rebbe, the maggid of mezritz. They wanted to know how it was possible to praise G!d for the good and the bad. The rebbe didn't answer them. Instead he sent them to see Reb Zuzhia of Anipol to get their answer from him.
After a long journey they arrive in Anipol and head to the inn. They ask around about the great rabbi, Reb Zuzhia. The people at the inn that they speak with don't know who they're talking about. So they talk to the innkeeper. He scratches his head and says "Oh, you mean old Zuzhia" -- I don't remember exactly how it was worded the first time I came across the story but it makes me think of the scene in SW where Obi-Wan's name comes up in the Princess Leia recording. The innkeeper gives them directions to find Reb Zuzhia.
They head out and find themselves in the poorest part of town. There in the middle of two houses is a little shack. They can't believe this could be the home of Reb Zuzhia. So they go up and knock on the door: "Reb Zuzhia?"
"Come in, come in." He says. When they open the door they see a frail old man sitting at a table. He has one dusty book in front of him that's coming apart at the spine and one small window shines a small beam of light down on the book. "I don't have much to eat but if you are hungry, here, let me share this loaf of bread with you. I can get you some water if you'd like."
"Reb Zuzhia," they say. "Our rebbe, the maggid of meziritz, sent us to meet with you. We don't understand in the Talmud where it says we must praise G!d for the good as well as the bad. How is that possible?"
Reb Zuzhia scratches his head. "Well," he says. "I don't really know why the maggid would send you to me. I've never had a bad day in my life." With their question answered, they had back to their home in Mezritz.
Really I just looked for any excuse to tell that story because I like stories about Reb Zuzhia. I don't think most people are like Reb Zuzhia though. I think most of us who deal with that issue are more like the two hasidim. I can almost see them going back, having gotten their answer, and still not being able to live that answer but at least having a direction they can try to go. I don't know if I really agree with the answer either because I think there's some value in suffering, the potential for learning and growth and self-discovery.
I like the way that you talk about what you find in the pain. I think I may have had a similar experience when I was younger and broke my leg. I remember having an awareness that my leg must have been broken and not panicking. Everything seemed more real and I felt more present. I wonder what neuro-chemicals do that.
I like the other version of "There are no atheists in foxholes." "Man's extremity is G!d's opportunity." I think though, that in acknowledging the positive ways humans respond to suffering, it's important to acknowledge that it doesn't always happen that way. New Orleans is an example of that. I don't know what that means. I prefer the version where humans help each other and I want to believe that is the more human way of things playing out, but I don't know if that's true or not. I think we have tendencies that can go in either direction.
Suffering to me seems like an opportunity, but one that the people involved have to actively take advantage of.
-- Dauer