Easter Pagan

Sorry, Conscience. I disagree with you. I don't interpret the Bible the way you do and I focus my faith on love, tolerance, patience, understanding and self-control rather than prattling on about "sin" while simultaneously ignoring the parts of the "Law" I don't like.

And for your reference, "God's Law" from the Torah is A LOT MORE than the Ten Commandments and the Bible does not say otherwise. Indeed, the Bible includes Leviticus. Unless you've chopped it out of your copy so you can eat pork.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Sorry, Conscience. I disagree with you.

I understand.

I don't interpret the Bible the way you do and I focus my faith on love, tolerance, patience, understanding and self-control rather than prattling on about "sin" while simultaneously ignoring the parts of the "Law" I don't like.

If you dont pay attention to the law, according to the Bible, you've missed the point, and you really dont understand love. If you dont see that your sin, as well as the world's, including mine, drove the Lord to the cross, how could you truely understand grace, and the Love that God showed by dying on a cross? If you dont see that the whole Old Testment talks about how God was going to deal with the curse of sin, and the whole New Testament reveals how he did, then you missed a lot.

And for your reference, "God's Law" from the Torah is A LOT MORE than the Ten Commandments and the Bible does not say otherwise. Indeed, the Bible includes Leviticus. Unless you've chopped it out of your copy so you can eat pork.

Of course I include Leviticus as part of the Law. I said somewhere above that our first 5 books of the Bible came from the Torah, didnt I? That said, God gave the Law to Moses, and man added unto it. Jesus even said this. He said that you who have been given the Law by angels, have perverted it with tradtions, etc. Again, the NT reveals that the Law of God is the Ten Commandments. I believe the Bible.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thats a growing trend with me and the other members of this site. I hope ya'll at least consider my words though. Consider it and take it to God in prayer.
 
Romans, Chapter 2:

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth– 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
 
I dont think you understand that scripture. Wether Jew or gentile, we're ALL judged under the Law. What saves us from the Law is the man who paid the price for our freedom - Jesus.
 
Conscience said:
If you dont pay attention to the law, according to the Bible, you've missed the point, and you really dont understand love.
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Thus spaketh Lord Conscience, judge of the hearts of mankind.

There will be no more Troll Chow from me.
 
Im not God. Im just one of his sons, called to be a light and witness of his Son, the Messiah, Jesus.
 
Conscience said:
I dont think you understand that scripture. Wether Jew or gentile, we're ALL judged under the Law. What saves us from the Law is the man who paid the price for our freedom - Jesus.
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I don't think you even read that scripture. Re-read the first line.

I need no animal sacrifice for my sins because I am not Jewish. I am not under the Jewish law. If you want to claim that you are under the Jewish law, then you will be judged by it. You knowingly violate Levitical laws. You already admitted it. Sorry, you're in trouble by your own standards.

And for the last time, the dietary laws are not from some extra-Biblical "human custom." They are in the Book of Leviticus - in your Bible! Sheesh . . .

Sorry, you just don't get it, conscience, and you aren't making the slightest effort to listen to anything anyone says to you.
 
I am not under any law. Why? Because, Jesus has freed me from the Pefect Law of God that men are judged by when we die. It is appointed once for a man to die, then comes judgement. Have you ever told a lie? If so, you're already guilty. Have you ever stole something? If you have once, you're already guilty. If you were to die this moment (God forbid), you'd be judged by the Law. Here's the good news though:

Salvation has come to people who dont deserve it! Jesus, the Son of God, has paid the fine for sinners that broke the law. In other words, because you were guilty of breaking the law, Jesus, you advocate, stood up in God's court room said, "this man's debt has been paid." If your debt has been paid, the law can no longer persecute you.

This is the gospel message.
 
The Purpose of the law:

Paul claimed that the Law of God was not contrary to the promises made to Abraham. The Law's purpose was to reveal the sinfulness of men and their desperate need for a Savior. Its primary function, then, was to bring to humanity a clearer knowledge of the character and demands of God which would, in its turn, bring a deeper consciousness of sin. In fact, Paul made it clear that the Law could never "impart life". A person would never be saved by adherence to Gods laws simply because no one could ever actually keep the Law. Paul also stated that the Scripture has shut up all men under sin. The fact is, there are no righteous people, anywhere! The Judaizers, who believed they had earned Gods favor, were far from achieving the level of righteousness the Law demanded. Remember Paul's argument in Romans 3:10-20. There he appealed to the Old Testament (primarily Psalms) to prove that there is no one who is righteous (3:10), there is no one who is truly seeking after God (3:12), and there is no one who really fears the Lord (3:18). All men everywhere are condemned before God as lawbreakers! This is the bad news of the gospel that prepares the way for the proclamation of the good news that salvation comes freely and graciously through Jesus Christ to those who believe. Keep in mind that, according to Jesus Himself (Matt. 9:12-13), it is the ones who are righteous (in their own estimation according to their own laws) who will not be saved. Those who refuse to see themselves as sinners before a holy God have no claim on Christ; it was to save sinners that He came. Seen from this angle, even the condemnatory function of the law is all of grace"
 
Conscience said:
The Purpose of the law:

Paul claimed that the Law of God was not contrary to the promises made to Abraham. The Law's purpose was to reveal the sinfulness of men and their desperate need for a Savior. Its primary function, then, was to bring to humanity a clearer knowledge of the character and demands of God which would, in its turn, bring a deeper consciousness of sin. In fact, Paul made it clear that the Law could never "impart life". A person would never be saved by adherence to Gods laws simply because no one could ever actually keep the Law. Paul also stated that the Scripture has shut up all men under sin. The fact is, there are no righteous people, anywhere! The Judaizers, who believed they had earned Gods favor, were far from achieving the level of righteousness the Law demanded. Remember Paul's argument in Romans 3:10-20. There he appealed to the Old Testament (primarily Psalms) to prove that there is no one who is righteous (3:10), there is no one who is truly seeking after God (3:12), and there is no one who really fears the Lord (3:18). All men everywhere are condemned before God as lawbreakers! This is the bad news of the gospel that prepares the way for the proclamation of the good news that salvation comes freely and graciously through Jesus Christ to those who believe. Keep in mind that, according to Jesus Himself (Matt. 9:12-13), it is the ones who are righteous (in their own estimation according to their own laws) who will not be saved. Those who refuse to see themselves as sinners before a holy God have no claim on Christ; it was to save sinners that He came. Seen from this angle, even the condemnatory function of the law is all of grace"
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Sorry, you're definitely barking up the wrong tree. I don't believe in animal sacrifice. I agree that "salvation", metaphorically, comes through Jesus. The whole thing has a meaning, and it isn't literal.

You really are getting nowhere for the simple reason that you refuse to listen to anything.
 
Conscience said:
I am not under any law. Why? Because, Jesus has freed me from the Pefect Law of God that men are judged by when we die. It is appointed once for a man to die, then comes judgement. Have you ever told a lie? If so, you're already guilty. Have you ever stole something? If you have once, you're already guilty. If you were to die this moment (God forbid), you'd be judged by the Law. Here's the good news though:

Salvation has come to people who dont deserve it! Jesus, the Son of God, has paid the fine for sinners that broke the law. In other words, because you were guilty of breaking the law, Jesus, you advocate, stood up in God's court room said, "this man's debt has been paid." If your debt has been paid, the law can no longer persecute you.

This is the gospel message.
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Says you. I don't believe in literally sacrificing animals for sin. I think the whole idea is silly and rings false. But it's your prerogative if you want to believe in it.

You are wasting your time. I don't see Christianity the way you do and your condescending methods aren't getting you anywhere.
 
Sorry, you're definitely barking up the wrong tree. I don't believe in animal sacrifice. I agree that "salvation", metaphorically, comes through Jesus. The whole thing has a meaning, and it isn't literal.

You're beliefs will not change reality. That said, I dont beleive in animal sacrifices either. I dont need the blood of goats, or lambs, when I have God's lamb, who was slain for the sins of the world. This, by the way, is litteral - Jesus really died to free you from the penilties of your sin.

You really are getting nowhere for the simple reason that you refuse to listen to anything.

I am listening.

Says you. I don't believe in literally sacrificing animals for sin. I think the whole idea is silly and rings false. But it's your prerogative if you want to believe in it.

Yes. I certainly believe as the bible says - "There is no remmittion of sins without the shedding of blood."

You are wasting your time. I don't see Christianity the way you do and your condescending methods aren't getting you anywhere.

I am sorry if you believe that I am being condescending. I assure you, am NOT! I do not think I know more than any one here, or that God favors me more than anyone else. If I did believe that, I would be the biggest fool of all time! I am just sure in my faith, as Im sure you are. My goal is just to present what I know to be truth, and have God open people's mind to it. That said, I understand that you dont see it as I do. Prehaps I didnt explain well enough?
 
Conscience said:
You're beliefs will not change reality.
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Nor will yours.

Conscience said:
By the way, I dont beleive in animal sacrifices either. I dont need the blood of goats, or lambs, when I have God's lamb, who was slain for the sins of the world. This, by the way, is litteral - Jesus really died to free you from the penilties of your sin.
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Uh . . . yeah, you do believe in animal sacrifices. You just said so.


Conscience said:
Yes. I certainly believe as the bible says - "There is no remmittion of sins without the shedding of blood."
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Would that be plant blood?

Sorry, the whole gospel is metaphorical. I clung to the evangelical, born-again Christian route you prefer for ten years. It doesn't mean anything to me now. Sorry, you really are wasting your time.
 
Nor will yours.

I agree!

Uh . . . yeah, you do believe in animal sacrifices. You just said so.

Where did I say I believe in animal sacrifices?

Would that be plant blood?

Ah, Sarcasm. And I was being condescending?

Sorry, the whole gospel is metaphorical. I clung to the evangelical, born-again Christian route you prefer for ten years. It doesn't mean anything to me now. Sorry, you really are wasting your time.

No Im not - "the gospel is the power of God unto Salvation." Im not afarid, or ashame to speak it. My success isnt determind in a how many souls I lead to Christ, but in faithfully planting seeds. That said, I have a question for ya. How is the gospel metaphorical?
 
Conscience said:
LOL! You havent even given apple sauce.
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Apple sauce is for Thanksgiving and Christmas. There are no apples in the spring.
 
LOL! Its great we can laugh together, its good for the soul!
 
JJM said:
I've know that some people find Easter to be pagan. I don't hold this belief but if there is anyone who reads this thread that does could that person please explain to me why they feel that way. Or if anyone who doesn't share that belief but understands why some do wishes to explain it I wouldn't complain:) .
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LOL every small detail about "easter" is Pagan based.... It only came mixed/stolen when the Romans tried to appease the christians and the Pagans.... Hence Roman Catholics....

The title itself gives this away Ishtar... is a Pagan goddess... and Easter is her name slightly changed into English. She was like the Teuton goddess of spring I believe. The "chocolate" eggs and hares (rabbits) are again symbols of fertillity in Pagan belief... You also have the hot cross buns and in your bible it shows clearly that your god drove the Jews into babylonian captivity.... Because the hot cross buns were seen as idolatry worship....

Does this holiday seem something that jah, would approve of??
 
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