The Problem of Evil (in a Deterministic Universe)

[greymare]

No, it is intolerable. Socrates for example had the audacity to say that he knew nothing. The Oracle thought him wise for the insight but the implication after his further research was that no one else did either. Together this is not forgiveable. The penalty is death.

oh, so sorry Nick A, I am but a simpleton and you are the all knowledgable. (tell me oh guru, did I spell those big words right?).
"intolerable", "unforgiveable"??????? Man, I'm sure glad I dont have to answer to you. "The penalty is death"?????
Oh, I think Id find that a better alternative than spending time in your company.
Fair dinkum, you make me laugh.

 

[Nick_A]

oh, so sorry Nick A, I am but a simpleton and you are the all knowledgable. (tell me oh guru, did I spell those big words right?).
"intolerable", "unforgiveable"??????? Man, I'm sure glad I dont have to answer to you. "The penalty is death"?????
Oh, I think Id find that a better alternative than spending time in your company.
Fair dinkum, you make me laugh.

You're lucky since you don't want to impartially think and experience like Socrates and Jesus did. The experts will not be compelled to kill you as they did them. You may be better off.

 

[TheKhan]

You're lucky since you don't want to impartially think and experience like Socrates and Jesus did. The experts will not be compelled to kill you as they did them. You may be better off.

How on earth does Socrates and Jesus belong to the same category of people?

Did Socrates even believe in God?, I`d doubt it although I havn`t checked.

What is your brief definition of an awakening, btw?

Is one awakening enough? (this is intended to be a trick question)


TK

 

[Nick_A]

How on earth does Socrates and Jesus belong to the same category of people?

Did Socrates even believe in God?, I`d doubt it although I havn`t checked.

What is your brief definition of an awakening, btw?

Is one awakening enough? (this is intended to be a trick question)


TK

Both Jesus and socrates spoke of the importance of witnessing the human condition. As we've seen, this is so insulting that they had to be killed for it.

Buddha taught awakening. He said "I am awake." This should clear up the matter.

Buddha Words - Teachings Of The Buddha I Am Awake

 

[c0de]

Both Jesus and socrates spoke of the importance of witnessing the human condition.

.... according to you.



According to >Christians< on the other hand, Jesus PBUH preached
the word of God i.e. Revelation. He was not a philosopher trying
to reach any "inner objective morality"... he rejected all such notions
of objective thinking that are completely illogical considering the
subjectivity of man. Hence, neccessitating the objectivity of revelation.

The fact is Nick, not only have you misunderstood Jesus PBUH, you
have also misunderstood Socrates. The fact is that as you peddle your
own views here, you fail to understand that the fact that you believe
that you can achieve freedom from the "cave" is the biggest evidence
that you have NO WAY OUT. Because the whole point of the cave analogy
in Plato's Republic, which you seem to think you understand, was that
no one will every get out of their caves. That was the point of the whole
story. That even when a person leaves his own subjective cave, he just
enters another bigger, more invisible cave, but a cave nonetheless.

For all your pretense and derision of others, you are the perfect example
of a person who misses the forest for the trees. As you strive to achieve
the same status of Jesus PBUH, you only reveal the heart of your effort
lies not in humility, but arrogance and pride.

 

[Nick_A]

.... according to you.



According to >Christians< on the other hand, Jesus PBUH preached
the word of God i.e. Revelation. He was not a philosopher trying
to reach any "inner objective morality"... he rejected all such notions
of objective thinking that are completely illogical considering the
subjectivity of man. Hence, neccessitating the objectivity of revelation.

The fact is Nick, not only have you misunderstood Jesus PBUH, you
have also misunderstood Socrates. The fact is that as you peddle your
own views here, you fail to understand that the fact that you believe
that you can achieve freedom from the "cave" is the biggest evidence
that you have NO WAY OUT. Because the whole point of the cave analogy
in Plato's Republic, which you seem to think you understand, was that
no one will every get out of their caves. That was the point of the whole
story. That even when a person leaves his own subjective cave, he just
enters another bigger, more invisible cave, but a cave nonetheless.

For all your pretense and derision of others, you are the perfect example
of a person who misses the forest for the trees. As you strive to achieve
the same status of Jesus PBUH, you only reveal the heart of your effort
lies not in humility, but arrogance and pride.

You fight so hard that you won't understand this but I'll still post it for the record. Inner morality is the same as "justice" with Plato. It is knowledge of the soul so is an inner morality. If you'd bother to reason rather than ract it would be obvious that Jesus was referring to the necessity of inner morality while the Pharisees were guided by external morality and its normal hypocrisy

20th WCP: Plato's Concept Of Justice: An Analysis

Plato realises that all theories propounded by Cephalus, Thrasymachus and Glaucon, contained one common element. That one common element was that all the them treated justice as something external "an accomplishment, an importation, or a convention, they have, none of them carried it into the soul or considered it in the place of its habitation." Plato prove that justice does not depend upon a chance, convention or upon external force. It is the right condition of the human soul by the very nature of man when seen in the fullness of his environment. It is in this way that Plato condemned the position taken by Glaucon that justice is something which is external. According to Plato, it is internal as it resides in the human soul. "It is now regarded as an inward grace and its understanding is shown to involve a study of the inner man." It is, therefore, natural and no artificial. It is therefore, not born of fear of the weak but of the longing of the human soul to do a duty according to its nature.
Thus, after criticising the conventional ideas of justice presented differently by Cephalus, Polymarchus, Thrasymachus and Glaucon, Plato now gives us his own theory of justice. Plato strikes an analogy between the human organism on the one hand and social organism on the other. Human organism according to Plato contains three elements-Reason, Spirit and Appetite. An individual is just when each part of his or her soul performs its functions without interfering with those of other elements. For example, the reason should rule on behalf of the entire soul with wisdom and forethought. The element of spirit will sub-ordinate itself to the rule of reason. Those two elements are brought into harmony by combination of mental and bodily training. They are set in command over the appetites which form the greater part of man's soul. Therefore, the reason and spirit have to control these appetites which are likely to grow on the bodily pleasures. These appetites should not be allowed, to enslave the other elements and usurp the dominion to which they have no right. When all the three agree that among them the reason alone should rule, there is justice within the individual.

Simone weil describes the experience of inner morality in her usual laconic fashion.

[SIZE=+2][SIZE=+2]There Comes[/SIZE]

If you do not fight it---if you look, just
look, steadily,
upon it,

there comes
a moment when you cannot do it,
if it is evil;

if good, a moment
when you cannot
not.
[/SIZE]

As a whole we lack this quality of impartial attention so are only capable of a blind acceptance of external morality and the normal abuses natural for hypocrisy.

 

[c0de]

You fight so hard

Don't flatter yourself... I don't even consider you a threat.

If you'd bother to reason rather than ract it would be obvious that Jesus was referring to the necessity of inner morality while the Pharisees were guided by external morality and its normal hypocrisy

Wrong. In fact completely contradictory. Jesus PBUH was not
referring to any inner source of morality. Unlike Plato, he was not
naive enough to believe that justice is a "human virtue", you know
why? Because Jesus PBUH was not a philosopher! As much as you
try and misrepresent him today, (and I have seen Christians lash
out against you enough times over this) Jesus PBUH was not peddling
"reason" and "rationality"... He had no need or desire to elevate himself
to "enlightenment", like you. His only mission in life was to blindly follow
God's word, as best and most perfectly that he could.

Any knowledge that comes, comes from above. It is a gift.
It is an honor bestowed, not something you can earn through
your "awakenings"... And who has that honor? Only God knows
who walk the path correctly, and who are led astray.

So when you claim that you are in the company of Jesus PBUH,
and Socrates and Weil, all you are showing is that you think you
are in their company. Which is itself proof that you are not.
Because if you were, you would never think in those terms,
let alone declare such absurdities openly.

 

[Nick_A]

cOde

There is no threat. Why be so uptight? You need some quality sack time with a cute blonde about 23 years old. That'll take and edge off.

You study Islam and the Quran. Why bother with Christianity? You simply do not understand the purpose of Christianity which is OK . There is no reason for you to do so because it isn't your religion.

"My advice to you is to get married. If you find a good wife, you'll be happy; if not, you'll become a philosopher." Socrates

Find the right person and get married. All this fighting can lead to a stroke or countless other stress related illnesses. Its not worth it.

 

[c0de]

There is no threat.

lol yea I know... no worries there.

You simply do not understand the purpose of Christianity

funny... seems i heard the Christians here saying that you dont either...