The Problem of Evil (in a Deterministic Universe)

Paladin said:
So you have to be Christian to understand Eckhart? :confused:
Click to expand...

No, I simply meant that a Christian would appreciate what Meister Eckhart has written. While anyone could, many wouldn't. Not many would want to accept that though free will is a potential for man, as we are, we deny it and its freedom. Try telling that to a non christian like Richard Dawkins and see how far you'll get.
 
my definition of evil is. in the widest definition possible has something to do with.

1. bringing misfortune to children.
2. messing with peoples abilities to put food on the table.

Anything other than that is therefore not evil, a luxury, and all in our minds, IMO.

Step over these rules and even nations will be gone. civilizations wiped out. This often happens when man is so man, full of himself that as a society these basic principles are ignored or lost in an ocean of logic. Thus causing destruction of societies.

Whether you call that an act of God is anyone`s choice. I frankly think its in our DNA.
Some people seem to know this, IMO. Making people so mad.. but their lineage will most likely not continue for very long.


TK
 
Nick_A said:
No, I simply meant that a Christian would appreciate what Meister Eckhart has written. While anyone could, many wouldn't. Not many would want to accept that though free will is a potential for man, as we are, we deny it and its freedom. Try telling that to a non christian like Richard Dawkins and see how far you'll get.
Click to expand...


What about a Buddhist?
 
heres my opinion. i dont want an argument, its just my opinion.
God is good and all powerful,
however, he is like the parent watching over his kids, to the kid he is hovering in the background, picking us up when we fall. (and fall, we will, because thats how we learn). We are the brats, playing with matches, .... when we end up burning our fingers, God says "... Did you learn anything from that?".
As regards Evil, well, we have the potential for good and evil, as I have expressed on other threads, I dont know why God allows evil, perhaps he's trying to get us, as his children to learn from that too? We as humans have to potential to stop evil, and I dont agree that there has to be both good and evil. That to me is a copout.
Its an excuse for evil, ("oh well, there has to be some evil...") RUBBISH.
As for clarifying evil, defining it........... i cant and wont go into that, (im not that educated), but i will say this...... Look into your heart and you know the difference.
Simple.
In my humble opinion.
 
Postmaster said:
Let’s say there was no such thing as misfortune, we would then start rating our reality differently and thus you get misfortune again. Evil is what we consider to be misfortune. So my answer is evil is an illusion and we must constantly push to higher our misfortune threshold towards God.
Click to expand...

Well... That is just an opinion.... God can be seen as just an illusion, so could be said for "good" or anything else....... But there are many sides to each, for example we are speaking of Evil... You class that as a misfortune? I'll go by one of the standard definitions/belifes of evil......

Uhm... Hitler slayed many jews... To them that could be seen as a misfortune I suppose lulz.... To hitler was it a misfortune? Or was it righteous? Was it to him not a massacre How did he describe it again.....? mein kampf...
 
Alex P said:
Well... That is just an opinion.... God can be seen as just an illusion, so could be said for "good" or anything else....... But there are many sides to each, for example we are speaking of Evil... You class that as a misfortune? I'll go by one of the standard definitions/belifes of evil......

Uhm... Hitler slayed many jews... To them that could be seen as a misfortune I suppose lulz.... To hitler was it a misfortune? Or was it righteous? Was it to him not a massacre How did he describe it again.....? mein kampf...
Click to expand...


Don't get me wrong any kind of murder towards anyone is unimaginably terrible but don't forget that we will all eventually die there is no option for this at present and don’t forget that most death is unpleasent.

We culturally calibrate and learn from our mistakes there is no option in this its human nature this is how we expire evil. God created man in the image of himself.

Misfortune will always exist because we will start to rate our reality differently it will just be less harsh but you might notice that the way we behave will change as this comes along, you think there is a connection in this? I do.
 
Postmaster said:
But I dont think we will have any more hitlers, not in the west anyway. Misfortune will always exist but it will change in its severity, we culterally calibrate and learn from our mistakes there is no option in this its human nature this is how we expire evil. God created man in the image of himself.
Click to expand...

Let's have a friendly (free) wager.... Bookmark this and come back to it somewhere down the road... I reckon we shall have another hitler.... There is a little hitler in everyone :D It only takes a couple events/situations to co-inside and the spark can happen.
 
(yeah I do that too lol loads! but I tend to be more ninja like and sneak it in ;)) I find it interesting that you say we learn from our mistakes, do we really though? What lesson is to be learnt from the -second- (not first, second it happened before! lol) world war? Not to treat people like that.... So now we've lernt this the world is at peace?
 
Alex P said:
Let's have a friendly (free) wager.... Bookmark this and come back to it somewhere down the road... I reckon we shall have another hitler.... There is a little hitler in everyone :D It only takes a couple events/situations to co-inside and the spark can happen.
Click to expand...

There does seem like there is a "little hitler" in Russia presently :D


No, we have not learnt our lesson as we would try to nuke Christ if he chose to return right now.

TK
 
TheKhan said:
There does seem like there is a "little hitler" in Russia presently :D


No, we have not learnt our lesson as we would try to nuke Christ if he chose to return right now.

TK
Click to expand...

oy!

Greetings buddeh... I agree we haven't and don't learn "our lessons" we never do til it is too late..... Happens all the time, only when most are faced with death... Do we then decide to repent and change our ways.... 9 out of 10 death row inmates find god....... ;)
 
Yeah but your talking of individual experiences. I think people in general, over history do learn there lessons. An other Hitler will never happen in Germany again because there political system has changed which won’t allow for another Hitler, and this one is working better then the last so they don't have a reason to change it and probably never will.
 


On Evil:
​


Some people may not be comfortable with the description of evil as an "illusion" so lets work with another definition which achieves the same objective: Evil as a Tool. As the opening post of this thread states, evil is >used< as a tool by God to bring about Good. This sounds crazy, but think about this: The whole point of comparing God's law with man's law (utilitarianism) was that man is NOT capable of using this tool effectively, and this is why God has forbidden man to apply evil to achieve good. The whole "ends justifies the means" mentality is wrong because of this reason. On the other hand, God has the wisdom (and an infinite supply of it) to properly use this, most sharpest of swords, as a tool to bring about Good.

So in this sense, there is no actual dichotomy, no real "battle" between good and evil. The whole concept of "light vs dark" is self defeating, because where ever there is light: darkness can not exist.
 
c0de said:
So in this sense, there is no actual dichotomy, no real "battle" between good and evil.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

c0de said:
The whole concept of "light vs dark" is self defeating, because where ever there is light: darkness can not exist.
Click to expand...

Most of the time with regards to this topic I find myself trying to convince people that evil is tiny. And then many explain it to me that darkness is huge. So this kind of discussion on the other extreme is unusual.

Darkness does exist because the light does not shine everywhere, and it appears to be huge for many, whereas it is wiser for us to view it as tiny, like those ugly goblin-looking creatures getting stepped on in the stone carvings of some church monasteries.

When circumstances only allow shrinkage and eventually lead to destruction of one`s self or community, that is what evil practice is.

Treat it tiny, instead of denying existence or glorifying it. My opinion.

TK
 
Well it also says in the bible (new testament) one day god will destroy satan. In my view that day has come with the revelation of the Baha'i faith which coinsidently doesn't have satan in its doctrine.
 
I do not deny that darkness exists. If that is the impression I gave,
then I apologize. I just do not believe that evil is a competitor to good.
Darkness exists, but it can never compete with light. It is not a "right vs left"
or "positive vs negative" type of situation.

I believe Satan exists, but he is not God's counterpart or nemesis.
God has no counterparts. If life was a game of chess, then God
would own the board. God does not compete for supremacy because
He created the very concept of "supremacy"

As for when exactly darkness will finally be wiped out??? I suppose
the day when the last human is taken out of hell, and placed in Heaven.
 
c0de said:
On Evil:​



Some people may not be comfortable with the description of evil as an "illusion" so lets work with another definition which achieves the same objective: Evil as a Tool. As the opening post of this thread states, evil is >used< as a tool by God to bring about Good. This sounds crazy, but think about this: The whole point of comparing God's law with man's law (utilitarianism) was that man is NOT capable of using this tool effectively, and this is why God has forbidden man to apply evil to achieve good. The whole "ends justifies the means" mentality is wrong because of this reason. On the other hand, God has the wisdom (and an infinite supply of it) to properly use this, most sharpest of swords, as a tool to bring about Good.

So in this sense, there is no actual dichotomy, no real "battle" between good and evil. The whole concept of "light vs dark" is self defeating, because where ever there is light: darkness can not exist.
Click to expand...

Yes and since you live in darkness means that you've blocked the light.
 
You said you believe Satan exists but you said God has complete supremacy. Yet the definition of Satan for both Christian and Islam is

(Judeo-Christian and Islamic religions) chief spirit of evil and adversary of God; tempter of mankind; master of Hell
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

define: satan - Google Search

You like the Christians here are supporting Satan because of doctrine. Even though your analogy of evil being an illusion makes more philosophical sense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top