The Problem of Evil (in a Deterministic Universe)

Thanks Nick, I will be sure to delve deep into the works of Simone as soon as I catch up on some sleep. You are right, some of the topics that we have touched on could easily be discussed for their own merit, and should. Maybe someone will end up starting those threads too one of these days.
 


UPDATE:

Just for the record Nick, now that I know more about your views,
I just want to state here on this thread that I do not share them.
The reason why I state this now is because when I linked back to
this thread for another discussion, I realized that your comments
here only detract from the discussion and are not in keeping with
the intention of the thread that I started it for.

Nick_A said:
How can sleeping people have free will? We do however have the potential for awakening and acquiring the will to make free will posible.
Click to expand...

This is not what I started this thread about. It has nothing to do
with your awakening. The premises of this thread was from the beginning
the implications of the idea that there is no free will. It was dealing with
The Problem of Evil in philosophy.

... just wanted to get that straight.
 
c0de said:
UPDATE:

Just for the record Nick, now that I know more about your views,
I just want to state here on this thread that I do not share them.
The reason why I state this now is because when I linked back to
this thread for another discussion, I realized that your comments
here only detract from the discussion and are not in keeping with
the intention of the thread that I started it for.



This is not what I started this thread about. It has nothing to do
with your awakening. The premises of this thread was from the beginning
the implications of the idea that there is no free will. It was dealing with
The Problem of Evil in philosophy.

... just wanted to get that straight.
Click to expand...

There is no problem with evil in philosophy. The only problem is in awakening to universal purpose and laws. Then the necessity of what we interpret as "evil" becomes clear. You prefer to argue rather than become open in order to understand. Your choice; not mine.
 
Nick_A said:
Of course people refer to the problem of evil but in reality there is no problem.
Click to expand...

No... the real problem is you trying to hijack my thread
with your own misleading and warped views of existence.

If you wanna talk about your "awakenings" or whatever
then you are welcome to start your own thread and say
whatever you want about whatever you wish.

This thread deals with the ACTUAL "Problem of Evil" in philosophy
by using >logic< ... something I know you are unfamiliar with.
 
c0de said:
No... the real problem is you trying to hijack my thread
with your own misleading and warped views of existence.

If you wanna talk about your "awakenings" or whatever
then you are welcome to start your own thread and say
whatever you want about whatever you wish.

This thread deals with the ACTUAL "Problem of Evil" in philosophy
by using >logic< ... something I know you are unfamiliar with.
Click to expand...

You are only dealing with your imagination. The value of logic concerning the essential question of good and evil is determined by the wholeness of the premises which for us are inadequate.

You are trying to use inductive reason to understand a subject that requires deductive reason to be meaningful other then in fantasy. You simply have no conception of the impartiality this requires
 
Nick_A said:
You are trying to use inductive reason to understand a subject that requires deductive reason
Click to expand...


That's funny, coming from someone who believes man can achieve
"inner objective morality"... a position based in a logical fallacy.
 
c0de said:
NOTE: This thread is created specifically for people who have move past that question, and are now dealing with the implications of Determinism and what it means for people who believe in God that is All Knowing & All Powerful.
Click to expand...

Peace, I have no interest in attacking.

I will say this, you begin by tying people's hands. This thread is only for people who believe in Determinism...which by definition leaves me out.

Later, you invoke Utilitarianism, which is not a Determinist POV. You've stacked the deck, and refuse to consider alternate POV's. Dismissal and disinclusion does not make a logical discussion.

By the way, ad hominems are a logical fallacy and are not necessary. For what its worth, ad hominems are a sign one's arguments are weak...they are the last resort of those with nothing better to add to a discussion. Anybody easily swayed by ad hominems, will not be swayed by logic to begin with.

Just a friendly FYI. Peace.
 
juantoo3 said:
Later, you invoke Utilitarianism, which is not a Determinist POV. You've stacked the deck, and refuse to consider alternate POV's. Dismissal and disinclusion does not make a logical discussion.
Click to expand...

Dude thats the whole point. I invoked it because its NOT deterministic.
(notice I use the words "compare this to utilitarianism")


juantoo3 said:
Peace, I have no interest in attacking.

I will say this, you begin by tying people's hands. This thread is only for people who believe in Determinism...which by definition leaves me out.

.....By the way, ad hominems are a logical fallacy and are not necessary. For what its worth, ad hominems are a sign one's arguments are weak...they are the last resort of those with nothing better to add to a discussion. Anybody easily swayed by ad hominems, will not be swayed by logic to begin with.
Click to expand...

The reason why I limited the discussion is because I do not
want to argue with people about free will. Because I do not want
to convince anyone they dont have it, even though I do not believe
in it, and I think it is not compatible with an all-powerful and all-knowing God.
Personally though, I think its an adorable concept :)
 
Let’s say there was no such thing as misfortune, we would then start rating our reality differently and thus you get misfortune again. Evil is what we consider to be misfortune. So my answer is evil is an illusion and we must constantly push to higher our misfortune threshold towards God.
 
c0de said:
That's funny, coming from someone who believes man can achieve
"inner objective morality"... a position based in a logical fallacy.
Click to expand...

You are not Christian so I cannot expect you to understand Meister Eckhart but in this famous quote he describes the basis of inner morality:

"God...does not constrain the will. Rather, he sets it free, so that it may choose him, that is to say, freedom. The spirit of man may not will otherwise than what God wills, but that is no lack of freedom. It is true freedom itself."
Click to expand...
 
c0de said:
The reason why I limited the discussion is because I do not want to argue with people about free will. Because I do not want
to convince anyone they dont have it, even though I do not believe
in it, and I think it is not compatible with an all-powerful and all-knowing God.
Click to expand...
Free will is the logical possibility to balance Determinism...dismiss one half and the discussion is no longer logical. It is like placing a brick on one side of the balance and trying to call it fair and equal...it isn't.

G-d is what G-d is, and G-d will be what G-d is regardless of what we want to believe He is.

c0de said:
Personally though, I think its an adorable concept :)
Click to expand...
Like I said about ad hominems...
 
juantoo3 said:
It is like placing a brick on one side of the balance and trying to call it fair and equal...it isn't.
Click to expand...

Bud I am not balancing anything here. This is not a
discussion about determinism "vs" free will.



Like I said about ad hominems...
Click to expand...
Dude, this is not an "ad hominem" because I am not dismissing
free will, nor am I taking determinism for granted because I can't
argue for it. I started the thread for the sake of discussing
the Problem of Evil, (specifically) from a deterministic point of view.
There is a difference. If I was arguing for determinism without
taking into consideration free will, then you could make that criticism.

If you want to create a determinism vs free will thread,
please feel free and I will jump on board if you wish.
Believe me, it is very easy to disprove free will if you
believe that God is all powerful and all knowing... but
I don't care for that debate at all, because.. well, I just
dont want to destroy people's belief in free will...
like I said... i think its adorable belief lol...
 
c0de said:
Bud I am not balancing anything here. This is not a
discussion about determinism "vs" free will.



Dude, this is not an "ad hominem" because I am not dismissing
free will, nor am I taking determinism for granted because I can't
argue for it. I started the thread for the sake of discussing
the Problem of Evil, (specifically) from a deterministic point of view.
There is a difference. If I was arguing for determinism without
taking into consideration free will, then you could make that criticism.

If you want to create a determinism vs free will thread,
please feel free and I will jump on board if you wish.
Believe me, it is very easy to disprove free will if you
believe that God is all powerful and all knowing... but
I don't care for that debate at all, because.. well, I just
dont want to destroy people's belief in free will...
like I said... i think its adorable :)
Click to expand...

As you wish, but it is not logical. The ad hominems are glaring evidence of that fact.
 
juantoo3 said:
As you wish, but it is not logical. The ad hominems are glaring evidence of that fact.
Click to expand...



*holds head in hands*

THERE IS NO AD HOMINEM HERE!!!!!!!!!!!


geeeeeeeeeez dude...

did you even read my post above???
 
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