Face of god...

c0de said:
Your assuming that if the world was united under one religion, everything
would be a-ok. This is what those one-world-government advocates
think too. Unite the world under a single government, and everything will
fix itself.

When in fact: the cause of the murders are just those "seething passions"
alone. Nothing to do with the "differing interpretations". Those murderers
would have turned out to be murderers with or without any interpretations.

And you know what cures seething passions? Religion.
Click to expand...

One religion in principle would be fine.

It could benefit society.

Here's the thing.

The three Abrahamic faiths. No danger of them ever forming an alliance, let alone merging as one. Too polarised, too much, too often.

So the idea of one religion, even if a benefit, will not happen.

Those at the top of the organised religous mafia wish to stay as top men, and any sort of merger could only weaken their grip, as they would have to relent so much.

A world Gov is something different.

In part, we are already moving toward that, with the EU, and the North American trade alliance, to name but two examples.
 
Everybody has their own view/belief on what happens when they die. It would be totally impossible to have one religion, as part of the structure of a religion is based on this question. Everybody would have to conform to have just one belief on death, and after death process. Not likely! You see what i'm saying?

My thoughts :)
 
enlightenment said:
One religion in principle would be fine.

It could benefit society.

Here's the thing.

The three Abrahamic faiths. No danger of them ever forming an alliance, let alone merging as one. Too polarised, too much, too often.

So the idea of one religion, even if a benefit, will not happen.

Those at the top of the organised religous mafia wish to stay as top men, and any sort of merger could only weaken their grip, as they would have to relent so much.

A world Gov is something different.

In part, we are already moving toward that, with the EU, and the North American trade alliance, to name but two examples.
Click to expand...


Consider the following: the institutionalized form of religion is no
different then all other bureaucratic structures (such as governments).
If you apply your negative conclusion to a one-world government, then
you have to apply the same conclusion to the one-religion for humanity.

The fact is that they are all systems of suppression, and manipulation.
They have nothing to do with the individual and his quest to find a way
to God. That is the difference, between actual religion, and the
institutionalized version. All sects of all religions are just out there to
score more power and influence for themselves. This is no negative
reflection of religion, but of man.
 
Alex P said:
What are we classing as seething passions here?
Click to expand...


whoa, that new avatar is a little intense dude

*shakes head, gets back on topic*

The types of passions that drive a man to commit murder.
Crimes of passion, I think they are called (lol). I just started
reading a novel called "Demons" by Dostoevsky. It deals with
this issue in detail apparently. He was of the opinion that these
forces are outside influences, that they are not inherent in the
condition of man.

It is true that in religion, the devil and his legion exercise certain
influence over those men/women who accept their authority over
God's. But I think that there is something in man which is inherently
evil. But this is ok, because that is what religion is here to cure.
That is the whole point of purification. If man was inherently good,
then you would see it clearly in the actions of children. But children
are not "good" are they? They lie, cheat, steal, hurt each other all
the time. But that's why we love them, because they give us a
chance to mold and shape them in the best way we can. Plus,
evil in not necessarily guilty, you can be evil and still be innocent,
if you simply do not know what "good" is.

Different people may have differing opinion on this. But as far as I
understand my religion, it is clear on this issue. Man is not inherently
good. If he was, then there wouldn't be a need for religion.
 
enlightenment said:
Hee hee back, Wil. See, I could barely be more neutral, could I? After all, as a non believer in god(s), I look at them all with the same eyes.

As to the rest, if you really have nothing to add to the point one way or another, why say anything? Would you do that in a pub, butt in to someone's point, and tell them they are talking sh***?

*Shakes head*

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
neutral...no you could easily be more neutral...odds are you could never be less neutral. you are a non-believer, an equal opportunity ridiculer. Your contention is we are all nuts. Yes, pick your pub, you are full of it. err...no offense.
 
See I have this talk with most of my family most of the time... A child is just a child lol.. Lying, stealing, bad language, unwanted behaviour... These are things a child does, they grow out of it.... My mum is all like Oh your nephew is evil and he has done this and that and this... And he just doesn't listen... And I am just like... He's just a boy.. Boys do that... At his age I was much worse. I am fine now... I do not believe children are evil they are just children...

Code you really believe we have evil within us? That's interesting... So is that like a fault in the blue prints? Which religion can "cure"? Why not just eliminate that inherent trait? Then there would be no need for religion, and that would eliminate everyone taking "sides" and causing just more issues not fixing issues...
 
Alex P said:
Code you really believe we have evil within us? That's interesting... So is that like a fault in the blue prints? Which religion can "cure"? Why not just eliminate that inherent trait? Then there would be no need for religion, and that would eliminate everyone taking "sides" and causing just more issues not fixing issues...
Click to expand...

I edited my post btw and added a little detail, but basically, the point
I was making was that it is precisely because we have evil within us,
that religion is the only real cure. If it was not an inherent trait, then what
need would we have for religion?
 
Alex P said:
Seems convenient.....

Then again if there was a god of love, what need would there be for hatred?
Click to expand...


Ah! But you forget sir: "Love" and "Hatred" are both created concepts.
Consider the infinitely beautiful imagination of the Artist who painted
these here murals.
 
Alex P said:
Love and hate are created concepts of... man right?

Oh and what murals? lol.... I see nussing!
Click to expand...


I actually used the thesaurus on that one!!!! Apparently,
its a synonym for the word "painting" lol, hey! it sounded kool!

But yea, about love and hate, no, they are not created by man.
God is the author of them both.
 
Wow... Not many religious minded folke, say their god created evil... Nice :) It was just I find it hard to get my head around it.... He made a cure... Ok congrats... But he also made the illness? Why not be a little more efficent... remove the the illness and won't have to worry about making a cure... Dunno, seems long winded... lol yeah I know what a mural is... Just you said consider these murals..... But, there is no images? Like me saying....


Consider this quote;
 
Alex P said:
Wow... Not many religious minded folke, say their god created evil... Nice :) It was just I find it hard to get my head around it.... He made a cure... Ok congrats... But he also made the illness? Why not be a little more efficent... remove the the illness and won't have to worry about making a cure... Dunno, seems long winded... lol yeah I know what a mural is... Just you said consider these murals..... But, there is no images? Like me saying....


Consider this quote;
Click to expand...


The cure is coming. :)

The Cure is also coming, but I don't have the concert dates. :D
 
Resigned said:
I questioned why inconsistencies in a belief system were dismissed with hardly a peep or a whimper.
Click to expand...
That is just what people do, and you are included in the lot. If not, then we should be cloning you.

Resigned said:
The question of gods is the only question humans allow to escape the strictures of what constitutes knowledge. Everything else within our knowledgebase is required to adhere to strict guidelines before being embraced as actual fact, as best as we humans can manage to discern the truth....
Click to expand...
Not true, because emotion dominates language. Human beings like emotion more than understanding, so whatever makes us feel emotion has the advantage. It is emotion which drives the explorer and the discoverer. Restrained emotions do not disappear but sublimate into other behaviors.

Resigned said:
The point is, the evidence needs to be looked at, and tested, and corroborated, and thrown against other evidence that may be contrary. For instance, one can theorize about a black hole, and have no solid evidence, but continue to seek it...then, as evidence mounts...the speculation becomes more solid,
Click to expand...
Remember how popular the movie Black Hole was? People took their kids to see it, bought childrens books and officialtoys, even Black Hole lunch boxes. These children are the Scientists who today are researching Black Holes. Is this what you mean by "theorize about a black hole, and have no solid evidence, but continue to seek it?"

Resigned said:
More to the point, and to reiterate my prior comment about testing claims for consistency, did you realize that you attributed the term “incomprehensible nature” to god and then proceed to add any number of human attributes to him? All of thisreally begs the question: “If you cannot understand him, then how do you understand what he expects of you”?
Click to expand...
No. I do not attribute human attributes to a spirit, to God. The point of God is that I do not attribute my life, my mind, and the beauty of everything to any person. No one is in control of me. It does not matter whom, or whether they do magic tricks or what. Whomever you think is attributing all kinds of human characteristics to God, do not suggest it is me.

Resigned said:
This is a good example of a self-contradictory assertion, although you may not see it that way. Of course, as you know, I would have no reply to you if you told me that this "understanding" is revealed to you.....You assert the various human attributes of god and not the anthropomorphic ones-- you assert he is perfection and then assign to him emotions like love, jealousy, anger, vengeance, and so on.
Click to expand...
That would be a contradictory assertion, if I were making it.

The first thing about God is that God is not human, and by this the word 'God' becomes a waypoint into deeper conversation. If I say 'God is kind', I am actually encouraging you (and myself) to strive towards being more kind. I am trying to say something that connects with you emotionally, with your hope for a better world. I am not trying to give attributes to ghosts. Governments and control freaks give God human attributes to wrestle themselves power, but I have removed that power from them just by knowing that they do not have it. 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

I do not like cutting up posts and responding to them in pieces like this. I wish we could just annotate them, but the perfected technique is hidden from me. It is hidden with God.
 
Alex P said:
Wow... Not many religious minded folke, say their god created evil... Nice :) It was just I find it hard to get my head around it.... He made a cure... Ok congrats... But he also made the illness? Why not be a little more efficent... remove the the illness and won't have to worry about making a cure... Dunno, seems long winded... lol yeah I know what a mural is... Just you said consider these murals..... But, there is no images? Like me saying....


Consider this quote;
Click to expand...


Like Dondi said dude, the cure is on its way.

Seriously though, if you believe in the idea of final and ultimate justice,
and eternal bliss in heavenly paradise, what is a little bit of pain/purification
as a price? We are comparing infinite bliss against finite pain after all.
And there is no comparison between these.
 
wil said:
neutral...no you could easily be more neutral...odds are you could never be less neutral. you are a non-believer, an equal opportunity ridiculer. Your contention is we are all nuts. Yes, pick your pub, you are full of it. err...no offense.
Click to expand...

Um, yes I am neutral, thank you.

I disbelieve all three Abrahamic faiths in equal measure.

It really is that simple to understand.

But you go ahead with your little tirade, and meantime, pin some more words on me that I have never used.

I am sure someone will be impressed...:rolleyes:
 
c0de said:
Consider the following: the institutionalized form of religion is no
different then all other bureaucratic structures (such as governments).
If you apply your negative conclusion to a one-world government, then
you have to apply the same conclusion to the one-religion for humanity.

The fact is that they are all systems of suppression, and manipulation.
They have nothing to do with the individual and his quest to find a way
to God. That is the difference, between actual religion, and the
institutionalized version. All sects of all religions are just out there to
score more power and influence for themselves. This is no negative
reflection of religion, but of man.
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

For without man there would be no religion, no talk of god, and no talk of heaven and hell.

It is man that has animated religion, brought it into being.
 
enlightenment said:
Um, yes I am neutral, thank you.

I disbelieve all three Abrahamic faiths in equal measure.

It really is that simple to understand.

But you go ahead with your little tirade, and meantime, pin some more words on me that I have never used.

I am sure someone will be impressed...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No tirade, no pinning words, as long as you are coming from an atheist perspective you can't be neutral...your atheist, hence your reasoning for questioning all things religious.
 
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