Netti-Netti
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Some of them had very strong personalities that go them into trouble.
Looking into Buddhism?
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citizenzen
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Who gets to avoid trouble?
Now if we only knew what "enlightened activity" was.
Words always demand more words!
From a previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netti-Netti
It's hard to say since no one seems to know exactly what enlightenment is.
n-n, I offer you this (and it's way over my usual word count / attention span limit so I hope you're impressed, at least with the word count!
)(of course, you may get other responses from other schools and traditions...and er...individuals...!) I think this also touches on why all this chatting on a forum might be fun or an intellectual pursuit, but discursive reasoning and knowledge acquisition have little or nothing to do with...it.
“What is enlightenment? What was it that the young prince of the Shakya clan realised that caused him to be called Buddha, the awakened one?
To answer in the usual discursive, conceptual way cannot convey the truth of this experience, an experience that is not limited to some past event, does not belong to some great historical figure, but is ours to discover. Enlightenment is not a thing, not a condition, not an event, not a goal, not an accomplishment. That which is without limits cannot be defined. Yet the question is a burning one for Buddhists. Even though we may be too hip to ask it, deep down, we want to know what it is that we are practising. But in truth, we are practising enlightenment! It is always and already here! There is not a hair’s breadth of separation between what we perceive as our separate, burdensome selves and buddhanature. But until this truth has been experienced, a little voice is always asking, “Why?” “What for?” “How come?” We want an answer, we want access to someone else’s understanding, we want some reassurance that what we are doing makes sense. And a good teacher’s response is guaranteed to pull the rug out from under us, to frustrate our acquisitive seeking after the attainment of something outside.”
-Roko Sherry Chayat, abbot of the Zen Centre of Syracuse.
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/an-interesting-pov-buddhist-and-10258-3.html#post174168
s.
Netti-Netti
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I think the linguistic stuff can have some value if the idea is to share knowledge and maybe add a bit of inspiration by introducing varied meanings into the world. Co-creation of religious narrative is a possible form of spiritual partnership.
citizenzen
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If done well, it can't hurt.
Each post, a koan, born of relativistic and discursive thought, offering us an opportunity to consider our mind and put forth a reply.
It is my conceit to submit these words with any hope to enlighten or entertain.
But I do know the value of sitting quietly and contemplating my response.
The cosine of i is..
Numbers Rule the Universe
Hello to all!
Please, see... on you tube
The Chant Of Metta - English subtitled version
THE HEART OF PRAJNA PARAMITA SUTRA
AMITABHA- BUDDHA OF INFINITE LIGHT
NAMO AMITABHA - Homage to Buddha Amitabha * Visual Dharma 16 ...is published to benefit all beings. Wherever it is played it brings BLESSINGS.
Please, see... on you tube
The Chant Of Metta - English subtitled version
THE HEART OF PRAJNA PARAMITA SUTRA
AMITABHA- BUDDHA OF INFINITE LIGHT
NAMO AMITABHA - Homage to Buddha Amitabha * Visual Dharma 16 ...is published to benefit all beings. Wherever it is played it brings BLESSINGS.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
This one?
YouTube - Imee Ooi - The Chant Of Metta - English subtitled version
{You'll be able to post links when your post count reaches a two digit number, so post away!}
T
Tao_Equus
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I have been "looking into Buddhism". I have left it alone here on this forum so far but that is going to change very soon. It is every bit as insidiously disempowering as any of the Abrahamics and just as bloodthirsty. I have long held 'opinions' of my own that cast a dark shadow on Buddhism yet lacked the specific detail to be able to substantiate my views. I have, in the interests of fairness and impartiallity, sought to rectify that.
citizenzen
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Oh, please expose the dark underbelly of Buddhism! It sounds deliciously lurid!
T
Tao_Equus
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lol, well it could be fairly said that it was Buddhism that 'invented' the suicide bomber and has quite a history of endorsing fascism. But I am not setting out to target Buddhism with some essay but rather my intention is not to let it off the hook and include its darker aspects in my future posts. Ever since reading the autobiography of the Dalai Lama some years ago I have been wanting to see a real debate on Buddhism as it is viewed in the west. The Dalai Lama is almost untouchable, like criticism of him is a taboo. Yet my impression from his book was of a man of only avarage intelligence, a man who would earn no special mention if he had not been bestowed his title. And he has said some things and made certain actions that most definitely put him on the same level of questionability as any other church leader. So no more pussy-footing round Buddhism for me.
Oh cack, I knew it would come onto your radar eventually...
...and you'll be bringing your usual brand of "fairness and impartiality" with you I see.
I wondered what was causing that...
s.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
That would Shinto, not Buddhism.
To me, I suspect you will continue to conflate teachings with "human nature." Your blaming Buddhism for the "invention" of the suicide bomber is analogous to blaming the scientific method for the invention of the atomic bomb.
Buddhists didn't wait until WWII to be violent btw, there were (for example), armed monks that engaged in combat in the 13th century (in Japan again! It must be something in the noodles). And of course, mind training is an integral part of martial arts. And sports generally. And life, I suppose.
s.
T
Tao_Equus
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If you mean by that will I make a focus of the facets of Buddhism that contradict its air of moral superiority then yes. I do not think many individuals are capable of real "fairness and impartiality", do you think you would bring it? In a debate forum like this polarised views are par for the course. That said I am not planning to 'haunt' the Buddhism boards. Only to include Buddhism where relevant in highlighting the dark underbelly of belief in general.
I was not referring to the Kamikaze, though separating Shinto is nothing but splitting hairs, but to the Buddhist suicide bombers of what is now Sri Lanka.
I think I am sometimes misunderstood here. I do not make my posts in order to apportion "blame". Rather my intention is to show the other side of the coin. It amuses me that so soon into my position of no longer giving Buddhism a free pass you are already using science as analogous with religion, even if you do so without believing it. My position will be that the differences between the Abrahamic faiths and Buddhism are virtually non-existent when it comes to the usurpation of free thinking, to the sanction of inhumanity to fellow man and to the exploitation of its adherents. I am not a regular frequenter of the Buddhist board but I have seen little, if any, effort to highlight the shortcomings and hypocrisies within Buddhism. When I see them arise I will highlight them, nothing more. Unless you can demonstrate to me that Buddhism is above and beyond reproach?
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
Post away.
I'm as deluded as the next.
To me, this is not at all splitting hairs, but there you go. I know little of Shinto but I believe it is an indigenous polytheistic religion. It is not Buddhism, which came from China.
That's because it's my primary delusional impression of you, Tao! Science is a touchstone to compare religions to. If this isn't so, I'm sorry, but that's my perception.
I can't speak for the Abrahamics but in reference to Buddhism you won't be surprised if I say that even given the motivation I'm not sure I have sufficient life times to debate this with you. Suffice to say I am in a delusional state of believing that I have a modicum of free thought, do not sanction violence (I start lower down the sentient chain than man) and do not feel in any way exploited by Buddhist teaching.
Perhaps you'll have to lead the way then (no I'm not being sarcastic).
I would distinguish between teachings and people's behaviour. Maybe you wouldn't.
s.
T
Tao_Equus
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None of us know everything. I try, even though many may feel I fail miserably, to understand things as much by what they are 'not' as by what they are claimed to be. This can be somewhat frowned upon as I offer only criticism and no solutions. Well I shrug off such criticism and see it as nothing more than a device long used by those who wish to protect their ideas by questioning the integrity of the critic rather than what the critic says. You can know something pretty well from knowing what it is not.
Japan has and had a large Buddhist contingent that actively supported the Imperial Japanese aims. Indeed the United Buddhist Leadership in Japan phrased it thus:
"In order to establish eternal peace in East asia, arousing the great benevolance and compassion of Buddhism, we are sometimes accepting and sometimes forceful. We now have no choice but to exercise the benevolent forcefulness of "killing one in order that many may live" (issatsu tasho). This is something which Mahayana buddhism approves of with only the greatest of seriousness.
Additionaly there is, as far as I can gather, so much intermixing of Buddhism and Shinto that separation is but an academic and not a practically meaningful endeavour.
Ohhh no not that again. Science can be used as a tool to examine some of the claims religionists make. But it is my own intellect (yeh go on and giggle) not science that forms my opinion. I wonder how many times I will have to say that before someone here actually understands it. Science, to me at least, is not a religion. It is a process and method of enquiry and a body of verifiable knowledge. Nothing at all like any religion.
As I said to you the other day my thinking is that you, and indeed all western Buddhists, are not truly representative of Buddhism as a whole. You chose Buddhism, you were not born into it. Yet if you have the money, such as with certain Hollywood stars, the Dalai Lama is quite willing to sell you 'holiness'.
So you think people do not behave according to the teachings they have accepted hold value? Curious.
You're looking at the Dalai Lama as a reference of Buddhism? This is similar to looking at the Papal institution as the ultimate reference for Christianity and I think think this is a bad and unfair way to judge any religion. They are more about their institutional power than the actual religion. Institutions and political power has a tendency to completely corrupt the most beautiful of ideologies. These people reside in the most beautiful of holy sites that stands at great centers for the religion, yet ironically enough this is where we find the most evil manifistations of religion. There is an ancient word of wisdom that says: (probably a horrible translation)
"It is dark at the foot of the candelabrum."
I think there is a lot of truth to that. While the cardinals and popes of room lived a hedonistic life style at the expense of their poor believers, there were people like Francis of Assisi dedicating his life to the poor.
Going to Rome, Kyoto, Canterbury, Mecca or any other center of religious power to find a true master would surely leave you disappointed. They are often too busy carrying power instead of humility and compassion.
"It is dark at the foot of the candelabrum."
I think there is a lot of truth to that. While the cardinals and popes of room lived a hedonistic life style at the expense of their poor believers, there were people like Francis of Assisi dedicating his life to the poor.
Going to Rome, Kyoto, Canterbury, Mecca or any other center of religious power to find a true master would surely leave you disappointed. They are often too busy carrying power instead of humility and compassion.
T
Tao_Equus
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Hi Selaphiel and as this is my first reply to you I bid you a warm welcome to this forum,
I agree. But I am not setting out to attack individuals only to highlight my own thinking on these subjects. The problem with language is in order to be understood you need to use examples. I do not want to insult or hurt any individual but I have views that people can take as personal attacks. Am I to be silent rather than risk offence where none is intended?
Just as an example pertinent to a point I am trying to make.
I agree. But I am not setting out to attack individuals only to highlight my own thinking on these subjects. The problem with language is in order to be understood you need to use examples. I do not want to insult or hurt any individual but I have views that people can take as personal attacks. Am I to be silent rather than risk offence where none is intended?