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China Cat Sunflower

China Cat Sunflower

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What if there's no greater purpose to life? What if it's just what we make of it and nothing more? What if there's no "beyond", no cosmic reason, no karma, no nothing. What if we're not important? Maybe we just can't live with the awful terror of the ultimate meaninglessness of our existence. Maybe we're compelled to invent heroes and gods to protect us from the stark realization that all we have to look forward to is death and identity oblivion.

Maybe the question isn't "what is Truth?" Maybe the real question is: "on what level of illusion does one live to avoid the unbearable reality of the human situation?" Otto Rank described the cure for neurosis as: "the need for legitimate foolishness." It seems to me that a if there is to be a consensus between psychiatry, religion, and social science it will come down to questions not of Truth, but rather of the nature of life enhancing illusions, and which of those illusions is "best" at mitigating the effects of existential despair.

Chris
 
I don't think it would really matter for my life, either. I like religion and I find meaning in myth. I enjoy ritual and meditation, and it seems to help me in fairly pragmatic ways. I don't lead a spiritual life because I feel obligated to do so, but because it's just part and parcel of who I've always been and I genuinely enjoy that.

So if the spiritual end of stuff is all in my head, I've still got a great life. My spiritual journey, even if inaccurate, brings me joy and peace and love NOW. I'm not waiting around for some afterlife to give me a reward. I'll opt for joy and peace right here and now, thank you. :)
 
What is there to fear from oblivion? That's always been the mystery to me. Oblivion is not a place of pain, torment, drudgery and all the petty and not so petty deceptions and disappointments that fill up our lives. Its just switching the light out for the long sleep.
I think it all a matter of education. Or, more precisely, maleducation. From cradle to grave there is the constant propaganda, an insidious and all pervasive implication that death is the ultimate terror we can face. It is our judgement day. And we better prepare for it by our tithes of money and allegiance to those that claim they know what it is beyond mortality. We are like children fearing the boogie man that waits silently for us under the bed. Its pathetic really.

The opium of the masses. An hallucinogenic damned if you do and damned if you dont eternity you would think hold no appeal! For it seems to me the choice is between fluffy hell and firey hell. Give me oblivion every time.

Ironically we are in some sense truly immortal in the physical sense. We belong to a soup of recombining DNA that seems to collect a history and pass it on. Part of an ever changing evolution of individual parts we are insignificant on the individual scale yet a part of something vastly beautiful and wonderful. Something that will continue long after we are gone.

So the reality is far more beautiful that any theists promised land and there is no hell at all. I do fear death in some sense. I fear that I will die just before a major discovery or breakthrough. I don't want to stop being able to look in wonder at the astounding complexity of the observable universe. But I will. There is no way to avoid that. Till that day I want my mind to know the truths to be found, not the sad fictions of tyrants. If I die a little less ignorant of things I do not know today then it will all have been worthwhile.
 
Tao_Equus said:
I fear that I will die just before a major discovery or breakthrough.
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I pray then, that you won't meet a beautiful woman or win Tattslotto in the next five or ten years for the horror of dying at your hour of unfathomable pleasure and happiness.:) I hope that doesn't happen to me either. Considering your comments here, I think I'd rather postpone my fortunes for fear of dying in boundless happiest. Better to be poor and miserable.

Tao_Equus said:
If I die a little less ignorant of things I do not know today then it will all have been worthwhile.
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I think I am starting to know too much.:confused: I need to close my eyes for a while and not see the world. I can't handle the information. My mind is overloading! I think it may have led to a recent depression of mine.:eek:
 
Saltmeister said:
I pray then, that you won't meet a beautiful woman or win Tattslotto in the next five or ten years for the horror of dying at your hour of unfathomable pleasure and happiness.:) I hope that doesn't happen to me either. Considering your comments here, I think I'd rather postpone my fortunes for fear of dying in boundless happiest. Better to be poor and miserable.
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lol, I do not think about death... I cannot see a point in thinking about it. Just try to avoid it if you see it in the headlights ;)



I think I am starting to know too much.:confused: I need to close my eyes for a while and not see the world. I can't handle the information. My mind is overloading! I think it may have led to a recent depression of mine.:eek:
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I think the scale and complexity of reality is overwhelming. But you can accept and enjoy that in its own right. You dont have to stick one book so in your face you dont see the rollercoaster ride of chaos. Roallercoasters are fun for me. But they are not for everyone. People like solid ground on which to stand but nothing in the cosmos is solid and so the temptation is there to imagine something instead. I only have a short time on the ride, I think I'l hang on and enjoy it. Its a buzz.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What if there's no greater purpose to life? What if it's just what we make of it and nothing more?
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Surely this is where we invoke the Golden Rule - ie, that we live on earth not to earn rewards in heaven, but simply to enjoy life now?

To be honest, I think a "life's what you make it" approach is the best in life.

After all, where's the point in going through life hoping to bag rewards in an afterlife, if you're trying to live a good conscientious life, anyway?
 
Anyone read or seen The Peaceful Warrior?

A great example to me...they climbed this hill...Hey I gotta show you something...after hours of climbing and anticipation, of discussion and enjoyment, of sweat and toil... the young padwan asks...what, what did you have to show me? Whereby Socrates responded, uh, er...this rock, that's it. THE ROCK, we climbed all this way for the rock??

What if there is nothing...but the journey?
 
This is actually why I admire the atheist.

The ehical, moral atheist that is.

They do good, they treat others right....because...just because.

No underlying reason, no hell held under them or thunderbolts held over them, not because someone is watching or keeping records...just because.

Whatta blessing, Thank G!d.
 
Alex P said:
Wil... What if there is nothing but the journey? Then... I'm gonna be pissed... I hate travelling.... I'm all about the destination.....

China what if there is nothing?? Then who cares? You won't know about it...
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Namaste A,

Does the second statement not negate the first?
 
Alex P said:
He didn't say journey :p He just said about worrying about if "this is -it-" which I see as my destination.. life. I'm here and have no journey, I have already taken the journey and arrived.
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oh, my what a shame. arrived. journey over. can't imagine it.
 
There are two films that come to mind. First is Wings Of Desire and second, Amelie.
Both these films celebrate aliveness. Wim Wenders and Peter Handke craft a beautiful poignant film about angels who have watched the human race since its inception and report on the spiritual side of man. One angel is so enamored of humanity he gives up his angelhood to experience it.

In Amelie, we constantly are reminded of simple beautiful isness that life holds and how there exists beauty in the ordinary. The film made me want to be aware of the small and unnoticed things that make life so amazing.

There is a meditation technique wherein the practitioner allows full attention on and within emotions that arise. What I have noticed during this practice is that many emotions like anger and despair tend to dissolve and fade away when looked at directly and deeply. Further practice has taught me that only one emotion seems to deepen and become fuller with attention, and that one is love.

There doesn't really have to be a point to all this for it to be "this"
 
The journey is over rated... 10 mile tail backs. Cross words exchanged.... Noise, hustle and bustle, a worrying mass of smoke coming from the bonnet... Too much concentration to make sure you are in the right lanes... If you miss your turn you got to take even more time to get back to where you started.

The need to stop for a pee! but that will set you back even more so! Destination is better than journey... There is rest, comfort time to take in the view and room to stretch your legs!

Why does the salmon battle to swim up stream? It has travelled in a circle... It like the Sea turtle... Dies where it started it's journey.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
What if there's no greater purpose to life? What if it's just what we make of it and nothing more? What if there's no "beyond", no cosmic reason, no karma, no nothing. What if we're not important? Maybe we just can't live with the awful terror of the ultimate meaninglessness of our existence. Maybe we're compelled to invent heroes and gods to protect us from the stark realization that all we have to look forward to is death and identity oblivion.

Maybe the question isn't "what is Truth?" Maybe the real question is: "on what level of illusion does one live to avoid the unbearable reality of the human situation?" Otto Rank described the cure for neurosis as: "the need for legitimate foolishness." It seems to me that a if there is to be a consensus between psychiatry, religion, and social science it will come down to questions not of Truth, but rather of the nature of life enhancing illusions, and which of those illusions is "best" at mitigating the effects of existential despair.

Chris
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Or, what if there is Something and we've gone through life believing there is nothing for no good reason, except perhaps that it is the bleaker and more punishing worldview and we are too proud to think we need to be comforted.
 
Alex P said:
Why does the salmon battle to swim up stream? It has travelled in a circle... It like the Sea turtle... Dies where it started it's journey.
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Because those things which mean the most and carry the most reward, require most effort? :)
 
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