Exactly right and that is why I as a male, would leave it upto the females...the mothers, and let them make the choice.
Abortion
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Faithfulservant
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during a period of apostacy, Jews would sacrifice their offspring to Molech for gain even though God forbade it. Its eerily similiar to what I think may be happening today with abortion.. the reasons some people have for aborting are " well its not the right time" " we dont have the money" "I dont want stretch marks and saggy breasts" "im too young" "im too old"
greymare
Well-Known Member
two females i used to work with, both within 6 months of each other had abortions. Both already had children. The first , lets call her Kylie, (not her real name), had separated from her husband and after "falling" for the new guy in her life, had realized she was pregnant. She was very matter of fact about the whole thing, "well, i dotn know if im going to be with "tom" for ever, so Im not having his kid!" I said to her, "Kylie, you werent with your husband forever and you still had two beautiful girls", why is this so different,? Needless to say, she had her abortion, I dont know if she ever told "tom", but you know what,.. her and Tom are still together, planning their wedding......and a special part of them is lost forever.
The second female, "Margy" also fell in love with someone after separating from her husband, they were together for a few years, but he worked away alot. When she became pregnant, (planned on her part, not his), he informed her that she had to "get rid of it". It didnt fit into his plan. Later she realized that his "work commitments" were actually him returning to his exwife and their newborn son!!! Yes, you guessed it, he had them both going at the same time. !!! but you know what, she aborted, not because she was so devasted by this man, she did it because she still wanted to be with him, and she had to kill her child to do it. And yep, you guessed it, her/him,the exwife, are still playing the sad little game to this day!!
Im glad i left this place of work because I couldnt stand to look at either of these females.
Both of these females were already mothers, I cant understand people sometimes.
The second female, "Margy" also fell in love with someone after separating from her husband, they were together for a few years, but he worked away alot. When she became pregnant, (planned on her part, not his), he informed her that she had to "get rid of it". It didnt fit into his plan. Later she realized that his "work commitments" were actually him returning to his exwife and their newborn son!!! Yes, you guessed it, he had them both going at the same time. !!! but you know what, she aborted, not because she was so devasted by this man, she did it because she still wanted to be with him, and she had to kill her child to do it. And yep, you guessed it, her/him,the exwife, are still playing the sad little game to this day!!
Im glad i left this place of work because I couldnt stand to look at either of these females.
Both of these females were already mothers, I cant understand people sometimes.
Exactly why I believe it is not ours to work on their lives...if it is they will bring us in...
It is our lives we need to work with..other folks choices are other folks choices.
But also in my mind, it is all in divine order...do I understand it. No, would I do it differently, yes. But it is not mine, it is divine.
greymare
Well-Known Member
Well, they asked my opinion, both of them, perhaps it was cos i was the "old girl", I dont know, they didnt take my advice, they didnt listen and my heartaches for their decisions. Not them, mind you, i cannot forgive them, my heart aches for their little ones that will never be.
And before you start on "its not my place" to judge and all that,!!! I know, I know, but Im just being truthful here. I could never look at them the same way again. Judgemental? perhaps, but thats just me.
And before you start on "its not my place" to judge and all that,!!! I know, I know, but Im just being truthful here. I could never look at them the same way again. Judgemental? perhaps, but thats just me.
Janz
What's Amatta U
Well, the truth comes out and I am sure that you would hate me even more. I have had 4 abortions and 2 of them were spontaneous. I don't have any regrets and I am a mother of 2 wonderful adult children and 5 beautiful grandchildren. The other day, I was reflecting upon the abortion I had when I was 18 and I am so grateful that my parents were in agreement with me since only the state of New York had legalized abortions at that time so my Dad and I flew to NYC to have the procedure done. My life would have been hell if I had been forced to have that child. Call me selfish, call me a murderer but if I had to do it all over again, I would. That is why I will always be pro-choice and pro-life.
And that is why I left the Church..because of the condemnation that I felt. So easy to cast those stones..
And that is why I left the Church..because of the condemnation that I felt. So easy to cast those stones..
greymare
Well-Known Member
I dont hate you, Janz
immortalitylost
Say Meow.
I don't hate you either Janz, I don't condemn you. I haven't really talked to you much, but I just wanted to put that out there. So don't take what I write next personally, or as an attack, I posted it before I read your comment, and then thought, wow, I sound really mean... so take it in that context. I was responding to previous posts.
Um... anyways, I just looked at the developmental stages of pregnancy, and compared it to a chart of when during the pregnancy most babies are aborted. At nine weeks, babies can move their arms and legs. They have eyelids over their eyes and have developed earlobes. Their hearts have been beating for three weeks. They have fingers, and are developing their touch pads. They can feel. They have a beating human heart inside of them.
This is the week of pregnancy that the majority of fetus's are aborted during. It is legal in the US, as far as I can tell, up to twenty four weeks. Maybe less..., I'm not sure, the chart I found on wikipedia goes up to twenty weeks.
Look at this, and see how much the baby develops up to 20 weeks.
Fetal Development Week by Week Images | BabyCenter
The youngest premature baby to survive outside the mothers womb was twenty one weeks old.
Just facts.
And as to the clones, it's simply a matter of time. Would you be able to recognize your infant child from among it's exact clones? Isn't it still wrong to kill infants, in fact, isn't it considered more of a terrible thing to kill an infant than an adult, because of time?
It had it's whole life ahead of it and all of that? So maybe the question instead, is when does that become reversed? When does it become less emotionally effecting to kill something because of it's lack of age. There must be a turning point in there somewhere when it goes from alright to kill because it has developed for such a short period of time to terrible to kill because it has only developed for such a short period of time. You see what I'm saying? When does the magical moment happen when the life becomes considered a life?
I mean, it's going to be different for everyone, so why even ask the question at all?
There sure seems to be a lot of gray area when it comes to the sanctity of life, yano?
Um... anyways, I just looked at the developmental stages of pregnancy, and compared it to a chart of when during the pregnancy most babies are aborted. At nine weeks, babies can move their arms and legs. They have eyelids over their eyes and have developed earlobes. Their hearts have been beating for three weeks. They have fingers, and are developing their touch pads. They can feel. They have a beating human heart inside of them.
This is the week of pregnancy that the majority of fetus's are aborted during. It is legal in the US, as far as I can tell, up to twenty four weeks. Maybe less..., I'm not sure, the chart I found on wikipedia goes up to twenty weeks.
Look at this, and see how much the baby develops up to 20 weeks.
Fetal Development Week by Week Images | BabyCenter
The youngest premature baby to survive outside the mothers womb was twenty one weeks old.
Just facts.
And as to the clones, it's simply a matter of time. Would you be able to recognize your infant child from among it's exact clones? Isn't it still wrong to kill infants, in fact, isn't it considered more of a terrible thing to kill an infant than an adult, because of time?
It had it's whole life ahead of it and all of that? So maybe the question instead, is when does that become reversed? When does it become less emotionally effecting to kill something because of it's lack of age. There must be a turning point in there somewhere when it goes from alright to kill because it has developed for such a short period of time to terrible to kill because it has only developed for such a short period of time. You see what I'm saying? When does the magical moment happen when the life becomes considered a life?
I mean, it's going to be different for everyone, so why even ask the question at all?
There sure seems to be a lot of gray area when it comes to the sanctity of life, yano?
Janz
What's Amatta U
I believe in self-defense. I would not hesitate to take another human life if my life was in danger. That is why I own guns and why I have the legal right to shoot anyone who intrudes into my home. It is called "make my day" law here in Colorado..I know that some of you are horrified to think that I would do that but I see abortion as being another means of self defense. If you don't agree with me, that is your right..I am not forcing anyone to adopt my morality however, I want the freedom to live as I do and that is why I live in Colorado not California. 
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
The church isnt a building.. its the body of Christ.. If you were apart of it you cant leave it. I would say to you that I am so sorry that anyone claiming the truth of Jesus Christ could ever make you feel bad or judged. Jesus loves you.. we are supposed to love you.. especially when you are hurting and Im sure you were hurting in that time of your life.
citizenzen
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There goes my idea of dropping in for lunch.
Yes but many of our parents did feel that way, and we are the result of choices they made to keep. Which made us wanted children and not unwanted. Truth is many of those our mother's ages wouldn't be willing to tell us if they did...have an abortion that is.
One of the glorious things in this life is the day we learn that nobody was born to live upto our expectations, not our children, nor our coworkers... As for forgiveness, forgiveness as you are aware is not for the other person. It is for you. Should you not be able to forgive them each time you remember them, your blood pressure will rise, your heartrate will increase, negative neurochemicals will flood your bloodstream...all while nothing happpens to them...just that little thought. So anytime I hear folks say they can't forgive somebody for something, for anything.... I wonder why they are so masochistic, and don't judge them for judging.
Hate you, I honor you for your openness in the line of fire.
I always just wonder the whole concept... conception is the diffence...the millions of sperm that don't make it, the heck with them. All the eggs that aren't fertilized, oh well, but should one little swimmer make it in...it becomes a big deal. Now of course it will be over half a year before it could live outside the womb...before it is a life that could make it, make it with years of help that is.
Janz
What's Amatta U
Anytime just as long as you call first and not too worry, I ask questions before I shoot. I have protected myself from intruders..can't rely on law enforcement out here in the country. Besides, they shoot first and ask questions later.
Thanks wil. That means a lot.
immortalitylost
Say Meow.
I also believe in self defense, not horrified at all that you do. And I think that people should have the right to defend themselves if they have a need.
I just don't see all abortions falling under the category of self defense. Some surely, but just as surely not all.
I don't believe the government should be involved much in abortion, legalizing, making it illegal. But I believe government should be applied much more sparingly than it is even in the US, so...
I just don't see all abortions falling under the category of self defense. Some surely, but just as surely not all.
I don't believe the government should be involved much in abortion, legalizing, making it illegal. But I believe government should be applied much more sparingly than it is even in the US, so...
Janz
What's Amatta U
You have a good heart Faithfulservant. I understand the once saved always saved teachings and being a member of the body of Christ. I did accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and was immersed for the remission of sins in 1996 in the Church of Christ: the condemnation came later.
I kept my past to myself and the interesting part was at one time I was asked to be a Bible Study Leader in Bible Study Fellowship (are you familiar?). Anyway, I did enjoy what I learned in BSF and was a member for 5 years when one of my good friends asked me to consider being a leader. The women of this organization are extremely conservative and I always believe in respecting the rules if I am going to be a part of a group that has rules. I could live with those rules and they told me that they were praying and God brought my name to several other women as one who was being called to leadership. They asked me to pray about it and then proceeded to give me the "secret list" of rules for leaders.
So I had to decline being a leader because one of the rules was a leader cannot be divorced, overweight or drink wine. Well, guess what? So the question of the day is how could God be calling me to be a leader of a women's bible study when He knew the rules and He knew my past?
When I told my friend that I couldn't be a leader and the reasons why, she was shaken to the core and accused me of being in denial about my scarlet past. See I had never told her any of this personal stuff and she wouldn't have asked me to be a leader if she had known these facts. I am not bitter about this happening..I am again thankful that my eyes were opened. From that moment on, I have been on my own path that has been full of spiritual awakening and growth. Am I saved? I don't worry about it. I believe in my God and I follow what I believe to be Jesus Christ's teachings but I am more of a Universalist.
greymare
Well-Known Member
Judging you? Well, I guess I am. And for that I am very sorry. One of my many faults.
Self defence? Absolutely, I agree with you here, defending your life and home etc. Bring it on, I say. I would also take extreme measures to do this. I believe that is a basic right, here, however in Oz, the rights of the perps seem to outweigh the victims in some cases. (Thats why I have a nice compost heap, LOL). (Just in case!)
Self defence? Absolutely, I agree with you here, defending your life and home etc. Bring it on, I say. I would also take extreme measures to do this. I believe that is a basic right, here, however in Oz, the rights of the perps seem to outweigh the victims in some cases. (Thats why I have a nice compost heap, LOL). (Just in case!)
citizenzen
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Damn! You can't kill perps like you used to! What's the world coming to?
immortalitylost
Say Meow.
Yeah, like there was that one story a while ago where a burglar slipped on a patch of ice while trying to break into someones house and sued the people. And he won the case.
American justice at work... Yay.
American justice at work... Yay.
T
Tao_Equus
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Which is why I am trying hard not to get started on this thread. Some people that think they find wisdom in doctrine as an excuse for their own ducked up selfishness really really irritate me. There is nothing uglier than the pro-life nutter sweating themselves up into the spittle flying fervour. I think a lot of really nasty people only choose religion because they draw from religion the sanction to be cruel.
Allow the world to live as it chooses, and allow yourself to live as you choose. Richard Bach
greymare
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, i have always believed this way even when i refused to believe in God.