God to You

[Saltmeister]

Well, actually some humans do try to save animals. Let's consider vegetarianism/veganism, by those who choose not to eat meat for the "love" of animals. Is veganism a survival mechanism for the human species?
.................
Perhaps I'm naive, but I like to think that we humans have are not bound to our primitave urges for survival, and instead take actions such as not eating meat and sacrificing our own life to save the life of others, not out of "survival" but out of something greater.

I was talking about evolutionary psychology there, not taking into consideration behaviours motivated by higher intelligence. Perhaps different behaviours can be placed in a hierarchy, with more complex behaviours in higher levels and primary instincts at the bottom.

Sexual urges, for example, would be pretty low on the chart. We're not completely immune to those.

And in the soldier example, why would he exterminate his own chance of reproduction just to let other humans reproduce in his absence? Are you implying that this "survival mechanism for the rest of his species" somehow developed via evolution?

It was one of the things I encountered in a book I read about evolution. It said that this is probably how more "altruistic" and less selfish behaviours developed -- a desire to help the species as a whole rather than just the individual self.

 

[Etu Malku]

Can you give examples of any human traits or actions that you think are NOT some sort of survival mechanisms?

Nope

 

[IowaGuy]

Nope

From a survival mechanism standpoint, how would you explain pacifism and vegetarianism? Surely 200,000 years of human evolution didn't favor pacifists and vegetarians?

If all human traits and actions are, as you suggest, a result of some sort of survival mechanism; why would someone choose to be a vegetarian?

 

[Bhaktajan II]

From a survival mechanism standpoint, how would you explain pacifism and vegetarianism? Surely 200,000 years of human evolution didn't favor pacifists and vegetarians?

If all human traits and actions are, as you suggest, a result of some sort of survival mechanism; why would someone choose to be a vegetarian?

choose to be a vegetarian?

It is about attaining Salvation ---minus the karmic-payback that typically accompanies "Action".

"For each and every Action, there is an equal and oppisite reaction" =

"For each and every ("Karmic") Action, there is an equal and oppisite ("Karmic") reaction".

Ask Buddha about avoiding Karmic-reactions.

The 4 catagories of 'Neccessary Actions' done by all living creatures are a common-denouminator among all sentient (living) beings ("Be"+ ing) =
1 eating
2 sleeping
3 mating
4 defending

Spare time activities are summed up as, seeking "sense-gratification".

So humans and demigods and supermodels and retirees and teens and two-wild-and-crazy guys are famous for seeking transcient temporary "sense-gratification" as any skilled lounge-lizard is expected to do.

Bar-flies are all about seeking out the prime goal in life as per their level of acculturated behavioral conditioning.

There is the mundane pursuit and there are the sublime and there are the transcendental . . . and there are the stupid-inane-vapid-miscreant-foolish-dumbfounding-unfortunate and funky-karmic self-destructing paths to samsara too.

 

[Etu Malku]

From a survival mechanism standpoint, how would you explain pacifism and vegetarianism? Surely 200,000 years of human evolution didn't favor pacifists and vegetarians?

If all human traits and actions are, as you suggest, a result of some sort of survival mechanism; why would someone choose to be a vegetarian?

Stupid maybe?
The body is not made for a vegetarian diet
Pacifism is more of a moral decision, though I don't see the survival aspect of it. Surely if our ancient ancestors were pacifists we probably wouldn't be here right now.

 

[Etu Malku]

It is about attaining Salvation

Again with the Salvation? I'm noty suffering, I don't need to be saved by anyone or anything, if you have convinced yourself that you need to be saved then so be it.

The 4 catagories of 'Neccessary Actions' done by all living creatures are a common-denouminator among all sentient (living) beings ("Be"+ ing) =
1 eating
2 sleeping
3 mating
4 defending

There are plenty of microorganisms that don't sleep, eat, mate or defend themselves. They simply divide themselves into two (asexuality) and exist.

Spare time activities are summed up as, seeking "sense-gratification".

So humans and demigods and supermodels and retirees and teens and two-wild-and-crazy guys are famous for seeking transcient temporary "sense-gratification" as any skilled lounge-lizard is expected to do.

Bar-flies are all about seeking out the prime goal in life as per their level of acculturated behavioral conditioning.

There is the mundane pursuit and there are the sublime and there are the transcendental . . . and there are the stupid-inane-vapid-miscreant-foolish-dumbfounding-unfortunate and funky-karmic self-destructing paths to samsara too.

I find nothing wrong with celebrating and partaking in man's carnal delights, why would you oppose what comes natural for you? That to me is wrong, and goes against being human.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaktajan It is about attaining Salvation

Again with the Salvation? I'm noty suffering, I don't need to be saved by anyone or anything, if you have convinced yourself that you need to be saved then so be it.

I anwsered your question.

You aint sufferring???

You must be one of those .999989% who are not paying enough taxes.

 

[Etu Malku]

I anwsered your question.

You aint sufferring???

You must be one of those .999989% who are not paying enough taxes.

That's suffering to you? I guess we have two extremely different ideas of what suffering is and is not

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Quote:
The 4 catagories of 'Neccessary Actions' done by all living creatures are a common-denouminator among all sentient (living) beings ("Be"+ ing) =
1 eating
2 sleeping
3 mating
4 defending

There are plenty of microorganisms that don't sleep, eat, mate or defend themselves. They simply divide themselves into two (asexuality) and exist.

Really? You are the only census taker of microorganisms I've ever exchanged letterd with.

Not many microorganisms posting on the web.

I feel your pain, Monika.

 

[Etu Malku]

Really? You are the only census taker of microorganisms I've ever exchanged letterd with.

Not many microorganisms posting on the web.

I feel your pain, Monika.

True, you did say "sentient" beings

 

[Bhaktajan II]

That's suffering to you? I guess we have two extremely different ideas of what suffering is and is not

Yo said you are not suffering!

Have you read the papers lately?

"The rent is too High"

Governers and despots are running amok getting voted into office to later get imprisoned and drafted into war and yet, you are a happy fellow . . . are you ready to make your order? Or would you like to simply see the Wine menu?

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Spare time activities are summed up as, seeking "sense-gratification".

So humans and demigods and supermodels and retirees and teens and two-wild-and-crazy guys are famous for seeking transcient temporary "sense-gratification" as any skilled lounge-lizard is expected to do.

Bar-flies are all about seeking out the prime goal in life as per their level of acculturated behavioral conditioning.

There is the mundane pursuit and there are the sublime and there are the transcendental . . . And there are the stupid-inane-vapid-miscreant-foolish-dumbfounding-unfortunate and funky-karmic self-destructing paths to samsara too.

I find nothing wrong with celebrating and partaking in man's carnal delights, why would you oppose what comes natural for you? That to me is wrong, and goes against being human.

All is good. Spending your time any way you want or can or as is allowed ---only lasts so long.

Time will pass by quickly ---after it all passes by.

The being-cell must cultivate higher tastes or simply revolve around the same 'chewed cud' endlessly creating and experiencing self-shaped karma(s).

Knowing the rules allows for more freedom of choice.

Making wrong choices allows for learning by the stick [rather than the carrot route]; ergo, "all is good" ---good for the soul to suffer and happy for the all Forest Gump macrocosims wherever they are spending their time in enjoyment.

The wounded warriors of the world are missing out on all the fun and frolick that the enlightened ones are enjoying?

 

[IowaGuy]

Stupid maybe? The body is not made for a vegetarian diet

Is the body "made" for monogamy? Do you choose to be monogamous? Is the best/happiest choice always to follow how the body is "made"; that which has been imprinted upon us from 200,000 years of human evolution?

 

[Bhaktajan II]

The body is not made for a vegetarian diet

This is false Propaganda!

You are propagandising for an industry that will envelope you lock-stock-and-barrel.

Mafia-talk passed off as Egalitarianism.

Fleash eating leads to uncontrolled lust and anger and brute ugliness and infirmaties and finally to overbearing conflagations all into the bargain, inexchange for flights of whimsy celebrated between other torments that occur to us until the next holiday rolls around the corner.

Flesh eating makes the Heart harden and thus compassionate behavior becomes a impotent sentiment.

So many think "God is Not a Person" ---"But We are Persons".

So, "God must be beyond being a person".

Yet, then, Your Personal grasp on the meaning of life is based on the narrow short lived petty circumstances of daily sustenance ---and that is enough reason to state "We are Lords of all we survey".

You proclaim all is good to eat --yet, at the same time, the digestive system is a mystery. Our morning constitution enslaves us to do the dirty work of flushing the toilet clean.

We are hapless beings without a clue ---yet we are free to rumage to our hearts content . . . or at least as that mysterious organ keeps pumping away 24/7.

Check out the psychoanalysis side of flesh eating:

Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Etu Malku]

How can fact be propaganda?
our digestive system and our teeth are set up for a carnivorous diet along with fruits & vegetables, we require a lot of protein daily.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

How can fact be propaganda?
our digestive system and our teeth are set up for a carnivorous diet along with fruits & vegetables, we require a lot of protein daily.

Socrates Galileo, and Copernicus had an easy time too.

Etu, plaese know I am ardent about this topic.

I am not aiming at you in the above posts ---you simply refered to the topic, and thus I responded as I did.

It is most fitting for me to leave your statement as a Totem Poll for all to see.

Since my ancestry includes parts of the world where the mafia & racketeering and drug cartles famously sring from . . . I feel justified in claiming the incidious nature of the Flesh-trade [flesh for eating] upon the human condition.

I do not see the truth in the common-place mis-information of Meat eating as a neccessity argument.

I've seen 65gms of Protein/Day written as holy writ ---whereas, I have found that that quantity is almost impossible to obtain for a common person.

65gms/Day is way too high ---why is it written as such??????????

If this was true ---why is the average diet leading to diebetes?
The average diet is denuded of nutrician, Some foods are simply bogus forms of authentic foodstuffs ---thus, the average westerner is cheating his consumers and even more, we export the same status quo expectations to the 2nd & 3rd world country bumpkins world wide.

How can fact be propaganda?

Big Brother & Geo Orwell's 1984 has long been outdated by more mordern methodologies.

 

[radarmark]

Actually, you are both right. Like the "greater apes" we are omnivores. However, the average life-expectancy and overall condition of some non-meating cultures is quite impressive (I include those who use meat as flavoring in Asia). TBS the non-meateater in Siberia, Canada, and Patagonia are (usually) hurting puppies!

 

[Etu Malku]

occasionally during a ritual procession I will turn to a Paleo-Diet which is how ancient Man ate . . . high protein, low carb diet, this way of eating burns incredible fat and creates massive energy and focus, which I find necessary for certain rituals.

 

[Persona]

This is false Propaganda!

You are propagandising for an industry that will envelope you lock-stock-and-barrel.

Fleash eating leads to uncontrolled lust and anger and brute ugliness and infirmaties and finally to overbearing conflagations all into the bargain, inexchange for flights of whimsy celebrated between other torments that occur to us until the next holiday rolls around the corner.

Talk about propaganda!
Personally, I don't like to eat a lot of meat. I grew up taking care of animals & since, I have a hard time considering the reality of eating a creature who was once a live. Yet, almost everything we eat was once alive... fruits, vegetables, wheat etc. I think the reason why some are repulsed by eating meat & don't think anything of eating vegetables, is because they empathize more with animals or chickens - who are more anotomically like us than plants are.

I personally believe God is in all living things... people, animals & plants. I also believe we need to eat to live.

Consider issues regarding vegans...

"Researchers at Oxford University recently followed 35,000 individuals aged 20 to 89 for a period of five years and discovered that vegans are 30% more likely to break a bone than their vegetarian and flesh-eating peers. A subsequent study conducted by Sydney’s Garvan Institute for Medical Research found that vegetarians had bones 5% less dense than meat-eaters. This can be attributed to the fact that many vegetarians and vegans consume very little calcium due to the limitations of their diet."

We always hear about how raising animals takes up so much land & resources (which I've heard is most with cattle). Yet, growing fruits & vegetables also has environmental consequences in pesticides that kill off other life/plants.

Then there's the stinky gas...
"While we’re on the topic of air pollution, it should be noted that vegetarians also produce more gas than meat-eaters. The problem lies in the human body's inability to fully digest the complex carbohydrates in the vegetarian diet, resulting in higher production of gases like hydrogen, carbon dioxide and methane."

I'd say "moderation in all things."

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Talk about propaganda!

And how does your postings clarify Man, Creation and "God to You"?

almost everything we eat was once alive...

Yes, I eat those living things ---over cooking will turn them acidic in pH ---anyway, that's where I get my nutrician.

Are you thinking that "Dead" "Frozen" "De-loused" "Cadavers" "Well-salted & cured" is NOT the same as the "Munsters" & "Adam's Family" pathos??

But why mock the "Munsters" & "Adam's Family"?

Just consider that advertisments pay for the publication of each newspaper ---and all purchases of the tabloid is just cream on the cake.

Also, There is a "fool born every day" is a business maxim coined by a circus improsario.

BTW, Since when has the anti-establishment counter-culture mind-sets considered abberrant ---and worthy of derision???

Is the hidden (and un-spoken) NEWS:
Big Brother is guilty of pedophila?

Well, surely, Big Brother is definately guilty of breast & ass eating ---both dark and white.

Make a wish upon a breast born today ---now excepting government food stamps.

vegetarians also produce more gas

Oh well why didn't you state your qualifications from the get go?

Had I known I would have shown the proper respect.