Hell

[Lunitik]

You can live and do good, or you can live and do evil. Throwing away and not wishing to review your history... I have seen that behavior before, and I found those individuals to be exceedingly evil.

Good and evil are concepts of mind again.

All that occurs of mind is evil, all that occurs through beingness is good. How can it be any different? When all actions sprout out of oneness, when each moment is divine, how can something like evil arise?

 

[Lunitik]

In Luciferianism, we have no such thing as a Hell, or eternal punishment, but we are concerned with the 'hereafter' in terms of incarnations and apotheosis.

Reincarnation is hell... distance from That is hell.

Apotheosis, enlightenment, samadhi, nirvana, moksha... these are all words which correspond to heaven...

How can each have a different destination? We are all the same, it is only our concepts which differ, our understandings... what is important is how to get where all are pointing, and it will be useful to approach each openly seeking what corresponds, what is the commonality.

Divinity is the ultimate commonality, it is our shared source... there cannot be more than one source because all is one - we need only recall it.

 

[Etu Malku]

Reincarnation is hell... distance from That is hell.

why would that be? Subsequent reincarnations allow us to evolve spiritually, that's a good thing.

Apotheosis, enlightenment, samadhi, nirvana, moksha... these are all words which correspond to heaven...

Apotheosis has nothing whatsoever to do with heaven, it is Self-Deification

How can each have a different destination? We are all the same, it is only our concepts which differ, our understandings... what is important is how to get where all are pointing, and it will be useful to approach each openly seeking what corresponds, what is the commonality.

Because we are NOT all the same, we are individuals, all with individual paths towards spirituality.

Divinity is the ultimate commonality, it is our shared source... there cannot be more than one source because all is one - we need only recall it.

Or so says your belief system, I don't believe that to be the case. The only thing we all might share in common is that we are physically composed from star matter and eventually we will physically return to star matter, though it is highly improbable that we will return to the star we originated from or we will all return to the same star.

 

[Lunitik]

why would that be? Subsequent reincarnations allow us to evolve spiritually, that's a good thing.

If we are reincarnated, it means we have not grown to our capacity, we are again subject to the same perils that life provides for all. Still, we have not merged with the divine, still there is a great distance which must be traversed.

It is foolish because it is herenow, nothing need be done, you just have to stop everything, let nothing arise and allow grace to descend on you.

Apotheosis has nothing whatsoever to do with heaven, it is Self-Deification

Can you back this up? Does not the explanations of the experiences of Apotheosis in your own scriptures align exactly with what the Bible says of heaven - discarding the nonsense that heaven is a place, reading it as it is written as an experience. It is what every other religion describes, so I find it strange yours would not agree.

I would be puzzled as to what the concept of deification is though if it is not something which is accompanied by a great ecstasy and joy, if it is not that being with God, that merging into the Absolute.

(Read God as Higher Self)

Because we are NOT all the same, we are individuals, all with individual paths towards spirituality.

We have individual paths, certainly, but when you taste of the divine you will see it is not possible we are not the same. Each of us is completely unique, existence does not create carbon copies, and yet ultimately there is only ever one being.

Or so says your belief system, I don't believe that to be the case. The only thing we all might share in common is that we are physically composed from star matter and eventually we will physically return to star matter, though it is highly improbable that we will return to the star we originated from or we will all return to the same star.

I have no belief system, I have direct experience of divinity.

Certainly, the matter which formulates our bodies has come from the energy generated in a star. This matter is essentially dense energy, and some stars have insane mass despite being small in size, they are simply that dense with energy. What is the nature of that energy though? Where has this energy arisen from? Where does our awareness stem from? Is it really your belief that our consciousness and awareness are simply accidents of biology? You don't suppose that conscious awareness and matter energy are actually the same thing in different aspects... one gross, the other subtle?

I will say that they are, I will say that encountering this truth directly is exactly what apotheosis must point to. In this experience, walls of belief are distroyed, the belief you are limited to your body, that you require mind, that you are individual. These are simply dropped, you are the creator experiencing itself and the created finding its way home. Existence is naught but this creativity providing a stage for itself. Man has called the object many things, you are apposed to calling it God, but you seem ok to call it Lucifer - name is irrelevant, words are a human construct only.

This is non-duality, the observer observing itself, the created encountering the creator, in this both are annihilated and what is left is divine. It is perfectly good to say there is no God, but it is quite useful to pinpoint and focus the object-subject transcendence. It truly is the object of the search, and we name all objects... what is sought is our true self though, call it higher self if you wish. That is not individual, it is all there ever was, is and will be. The only One.

 

[Lunitik]

Of course, do not accept what I say until it is your experience...

Your experience right now is that you are an individual with free will, it is perfectly good for now. I do not think you have tasted the ultimate, so why should you even consider that it is not so?

What would you say if I told you that you confirmations of free will, your decisions, are actually predetermined? Can you consider the ramifications? If you are not actually animated of your own accord, can you fathom the ramifications? Now I have said that neither mind nor body is you, then what are you?

Contemplate, but accept nothing unless it is confirmed through direct experience... just a little experiment.

 

[Lunitik]

Can you look at whether you are merely caught up in these things which occur around you, to the body and mind you are identified with, can you distance yourself from these and yet observe that it is done of its own accord?

Perhaps merely be aware of how much action in every day life simply isn't done consciously... perhaps you rub your chin, or stroke your hair, whatever... how much are you actually consciously doing even now? Can you allow other actions without identifying with them, say body wants food... can it go and get food without your involvement? Do not stop it, simply allow without becoming involved at all, if you try to become involved you will not permit it because it is a strange sensation indeed - mind wants to play a role in it, but is it necessary? Can more complicated things happen in the same way?

Just try every so often over the next week, this is called pure witnessing.

 

[Etu Malku]

If we are reincarnated, it means we have not grown to our capacity, we are again subject to the same perils that life provides for all. Still, we have not merged with the divine, still there is a great distance which must be traversed.

Hence why we would re-incarnate, to continue to spiritually evolve.

It is foolish because it is herenow, nothing need be done, you just have to stop everything, let nothing arise and allow grace to descend on you.

No, you need to become Individuated, higher spiritually while here in the physical.

Can you back this up? Does not the explanations of the experiences of Apotheosis in your own scriptures align exactly with what the Bible says of heaven - discarding the nonsense that heaven is a place, reading it as it is written as an experience. It is what every other religion describes, so I find it strange yours would not agree.

We don't have scriptures, there is no Luciferian bible. And of course I can't back this up, just like you can't back anything you say up. Of course I can always go your route and proclaim it through self-experience, because then no one can prove otherwise.

I would be puzzled as to what the concept of deification is though if it is not something which is accompanied by a great ecstasy and joy, if it is not that being with God, that merging into the Absolute.

Being that I am not Deified I couldn't tell you what it entails. God / Absolute? Can you be any more dubious and obscure?

(Read God as Higher Self)

We have individual paths, certainly, but when you taste of the divine you will see it is not possible we are not the same. Each of us is completely unique, existence does not create carbon copies, and yet ultimately there is only ever one being.

Sure, I'll play along . . . I have tasted of the Divine and He told me you are wrong and I am right, can you prove this otherwise?

I have no belief system, I have direct experience of divinity.

Yeah, me too.

Certainly, the matter which formulates our bodies has come from the energy generated in a star. This matter is essentially dense energy, and some stars have insane mass despite being small in size, they are simply that dense with energy. What is the nature of that energy though? Where has this energy arisen from?

The energy according to physics was created during the Big Bang, the Supernova of one of these stars.

Where does our awareness stem from? Is it really your belief that our consciousness and awareness are simply accidents of biology?

I don't believe I have ever stated that. Consciousness is what we are, our subjective Being, the non physical Us. Upon reflection upon our Self we create a duality and a downward spiral into the flesh. This is the theory behind many spiritual paths, coincides with most mysticism, and with mathematics and physics.

You don't suppose that conscious awareness and matter energy are actually the same thing in different aspects... one gross, the other subtle?

That very well could be.

Man has called the object many things, you are apposed to calling it God, but you seem ok to call it Lucifer - name is irrelevant, words are a human construct only.

Typically, you are wrong again. We do not call this Lucifer, there is no Lucifer, the Word is a Principle not a deification or personification of anything.

This is non-duality,

there is always duality in the objective universe, until the singularity of Apotheosis ocurrs.

the observer observing itself, the created encountering the creator, in this both are annihilated and what is left is divine. It is perfectly good to say there is no God, but it is quite useful to pinpoint and focus the object-subject transcendence. It truly is the object of the search, and we name all objects... what is sought is our true self though, call it higher self if you wish. That is not individual, it is all there ever was, is and will be. The only One.

I understand your idea that we all resolve to One Singular Absolute, I simply disagree in that I believe we all remain Individual and that there is not One singular Absolute of which we are all a part of.

 

[donnann]

Hence why we would re-incarnate, to continue to spiritually evolve.

No, you need to become Individuated, higher spiritually while here in the physical.

We don't have scriptures, there is no Luciferian bible. And of course I can't back this up, just like you can't back anything you say up. Of course I can always go your route and proclaim it through self-experience, because then no one can prove otherwise.
Being that I am not Deified I couldn't tell you what it entails. God / Absolute? Can you be any more dubious and obscure?

(Read God as Higher Self)


Sure, I'll play along . . . I have tasted of the Divine and He told me you are wrong and I am right, can you prove this otherwise?

Yeah, me too.

The energy according to physics was created during the Big Bang, the Supernova of one of these stars.
I don't believe I have ever stated that. Consciousness is what we are, our subjective Being, the non physical Us. Upon reflection upon our Self we create a duality and a downward spiral into the flesh. This is the theory behind many spiritual paths, coincides with most mysticism, and with mathematics and physics.

That very well could be.

Typically, you are wrong again. We do not call this Lucifer, there is no Lucifer, the Word is a Principle not a deification or personification of anything.

there is always duality in the objective universe, until the singularity of Apotheosis ocurrs.

I understand your idea that we all resolve to One Singular Absolute, I simply disagree in that I believe we all remain Individual and that there is not One singular Absolute of which we are all a part of.

JEHOVAH Bless you

 

[Etu Malku]

JEHOVAH Bless you

Diabolus Beatus to you too

 

[donnann]

Diabolus Beatus to you too

I meant that as a miracle thing like turning bats into birds....get it

 

[donnann]

Diabolus Beatus to you too

Besides Lucifel is on my side.

 

[donnann]

Diabolus Beatus to you too

You didnt have to use profanity I was trying to say something nice god can change bats back into birds geesh.

 

[Etu Malku]

You didnt have to use profanity I was trying to say something nice god can change bats back into birds geesh.

THat wasn't profane . . . you said "JEHOVAH Bless you"
And I said The Devil Bless you . . . same thing different religions

 

[donnann]

THat wasn't profane . . . you said "JEHOVAH Bless you"
And I said The Devil Bless you . . . same thing different religions

Well as long as you dont mean what most people do by it cause I have been there done that and I am not doing that again.

 

[Etu Malku]

Well as long as you dont mean what most people do by it cause I have been there done that and I am not doing that again.

You've had other people bless you with the devil in Latin?
Damn, here I thought I was a little unique

 

[donnann]

You've had other people bless you with the devil in Latin?
Damn, here I thought I was a little unique

I understand latin when I read it or hear it. Dont know how I just do.

 

[donnann]

You've had other people bless you with the devil in Latin?
Damn, here I thought I was a little unique

I prefer to think of Lucifel he protects females.

 

[Lunitik]

Hence why we would re-incarnate, to continue to spiritually evolve.

Why not finish it herenow? It is possible...

No, you need to become Individuated, higher spiritually while here in the physical.

You must ascend to non-duality, howsoever the particular device of Luciferianism prescribes, I am familiar with many and have tried to articulate several, but it has not benefited you clearly. That state is divinity, that state is the higher self.

Being that I am not Deified I couldn't tell you what it entails. God / Absolute? Can you be any more dubious and obscure?

It is the object with which you merge to achieve non-duality, when considering object/subject. It is the outer, when perceiving the fundamental duality as inner/outer. It is whatsoever you do not identify with yourself, as of course you are the subject.

The energy according to physics was created during the Big Bang, the Supernova of one of these stars.

How can this be? The energy has caused the Big Bang, and yet something had to react for that initial outburst to take place, where has that matter originated? Stars supernova all the time, how can you say each of these has caused our Universe? By this reckoning there should be millions of universes within our own...

Consciousness is what we are, our subjective Being, the non physical Us. Upon reflection upon our Self we create a duality and a downward spiral into the flesh. This is the theory behind many spiritual paths, coincides with most mysticism, and with mathematics and physics.

So going back to the duality statement relating to God above, it is from where consciousness originated. It is the source of consciousness, awareness itself. This is what Christians and all other religions reference but they do not know it because they have not experienced it. Find the source of your consciousness, can you be aware of it directly?

Yes, I am inferring that God is within us... how can a Christian protest? The Bible says it as well, it is only that other religions have focused on this, gone deeper into this... tried to verify, and then show others how to find it. This experimentation has resulted in things like yoga and meditation...

Typically, you are wrong again. We do not call this Lucifer, there is no Lucifer, the Word is a Principle not a deification or personification of anything.

Sorry, I have not looked into Luciferianism, it simply doesn't interest me because I know of no one that has reached through it. I am interested in direct words from those that have reached only. They know, and I do not have to go by a third party interpretation. Better still is the living guru, then they can directly address the games of your mind, personify the teaching or guidance for you.

there is always duality in the objective universe, until the singularity of Apotheosis ocurrs.

Indeed, I am simply saying it has happened to me, and am attempting to talk to you from that place in a way you might understand. You are too much clung to your current concepts though, too much about semantics simply to listen. I do not wish to convert you away from Luciferianism, I simply wish to guide all I can home.

I understand your idea that we all resolve to One Singular Absolute, I simply disagree in that I believe we all remain Individual and that there is not One singular Absolute of which we are all a part of.

Until apotheosis, do you agree?

Of course, it is not a physical merging, it is not related to body whatsoever... it is simply that we become a watcher of all that occurs for this body, that journey is still unique and individual. It is not of our free will though, we are not the doer, we do not decide anything. We simply think we choose based on where were already supposed to go next.

With this, if you look at it, there can only be utter trust in the existence. Everything which happens, it must happen, there is no other possibility... this provides a profound backdrop for your final leap, that final let go. It is inevitable though, you will either engage it and enjoy it in this place, or you will encounter it upon death with absolutely no choice at all...

No matter, it will happen, it is irrelevant what you think or desire or whatever. You are That, you will be going home one day, why not today? Why not dance and enjoy it, why put it off and fear it? This is the fundamental question of religion: Why postpone what can be embraced herenow?

You will see it is already the case, has always been the case, you are only seeing it without the distortions of mind.

 

[Lunitik]

If you are to experience non-duality though, how can there be something which is not you? If there is anything, it is still a duality, is it not?

You can reject non-duality, that is fine, it is not your experience... I do not understand how you have decided there is a singularity and yet all are still distinct within it?!? Non-dual is perfectly correct, and you will move through yourself as far as sensation is concerned, exploring yourself. All is you, there is no other, hence singularity.

Yet you will encounter other aspects of yourself, also travelling within yourself, unaware usually that you are experiencing differently. They are still contented with mind, with the bustle of their lives, not yet interested at all in coming home. You will sense their feelings, even be able to tell their thoughts sometimes or guide them in certain ways indirectly. You will be able to change things around you as well, called manifesting, although it is not interesting because what could you want? It is dangerous to play with because it will happen.

It is very interesting, a whole new experience, born again is really a fair statement about it - the old being is no longer present at all.

 

[Etu Malku]

I prefer to think of Lucifel he protects females.

Now you are being just plain silly and in some ways rude, Lucifel only exists as a character in some Role Playing Game.