What I believe.....

radarmark said:
GK, the C.S.A. (Umerikkan South) is a relatively backwater of Christianity. Most Christian (world wide) have a much less restrictive definition. So the reality is somewhere between you and ACOT.
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Actually it is between ACOT, you and THEM (C.S.A.). The holy rollers are about as far away from my reality as it is possible to be and still be on the same plane of existence!
 
wil said:
It is that fire and brimstone version of G!d, the smiting and plagueing passive aggressive off his meds bipolar feller that makes many folks if not atheist...recovering christians...
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It is very unfortunate that this warped version of Christianity has sprung up in the Southern States. It is not a healthy religion for body, mind or soul. Combine their smug holier than thou attitude towards others with their hypocrisy of constantly getting caught not following the tenants they SO profess to live by. Add in the level of ignorance of the average adult and it is a cocktail for disaster.
 
Gordian Knot said:
Actually it is between ACOT, you and THEM (C.S.A.). The holy rollers are about as far away from my reality as it is possible to be and still be on the same plane of existence!
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We're only talking about how God would be if he existed according to atheists, you do have a rather strict idea of that god, and it is far from your own reality, agreed?
 
Okay. Yes, from that point of view you are correct. I have a very strict view of God because I have seen his followers and their actions, as I noted above. It is a life line for me that many of you suggest that the world at large does not hold this extreme version of a petty entity!
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
We're only talking about how God would be if he existed according to atheists, you do have a rather strict idea of that god, and it is far from your own reality, agreed?
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How would you know, do we have any extensive data on this? Or are we simply guessing?
 
Paladin said:
How would you know, do we have any extensive data on this? Or are we simply guessing?
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I...don't know how to answer that, I think you might have misread me, it's a comment on the latest posts me, Radar and G-Knot made to each other about how atheists have a very strict definition of a god that doesn't really reflect what a lot of theists believe. If you got that would you mind restating the question because I missed something.
 
ACOT is right. We have agreed that 1) there are a lot of wanker theists who define g!d as some kind of anthropomorphic Superman-Father, 2) most atheists define g!d this way in reaction to the wankers, and 3) most theists (world-wide) do not agree with this definition.

How do you get data? For 3) it is the number of wanker theists (try BACs as a first guess) divided by number of theists; should be a minority of a minority. For 2) just list the atheists you know (or can look up on the web); a hefty majority, most likely. For 1) just add up the number of Born-Again-Christians (start with Baptists plus Evangelicals plus Pentacostals).
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
I...don't know how to answer that, I think you might have misread me, it's a comment on the latest posts me, Radar and G-Knot made to each other about how atheists have a very strict definition of a god that doesn't really reflect what a lot of theists believe. If you got that would you mind restating the question because I missed something.
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Sorry if that seemed abrupt or confusing, but if there is something like this under discussion doesn't it seem prudent to define what it is? GK and Wil both postulate something for which they clearly have no data, and knowing your penchant for such things I thought I'd ask.
For example, if we posit anything about how "atheists" of course meaning all atheists everywhere including different age cohorts, cultural groups, gender, sex, family history, etc, really think about a particular subject and then posit further that all of them must be thinking along a particular line based on emotional reactance to authoritarian ideology, we are on severely shaky ground.

If you substituted race or gender for atheist in this discussion do you see how absurd it can become?
 
Ummm, GK postulates something for which he has a great deal of data. 50 years worth of personal experiences to be precise. But that data is my point of view on the Christian God, not that of atheists. Which I think is where some of the confusion is coming into the discussion.

I don't think anyone set out to lump all atheist beliefs into one grand position. The discussion sort of wound its way organically from the initial comment that atheists in general had a much more specific view of what God is than theists did.

Never the less, point well made, Paladin. We do need to be careful in our generalizations.
 
Paladin said:
If you substituted race or gender for atheist in this discussion do you see how absurd it can become?
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Oh, the atheists are my weak spot, I'm way too prejudice to never slip up. This time I was mostly referring to the atheists in this discussion (I think Aup an G-Knot), but yeah, it's hard for me to resist the idea that all atheists are their equivalent to fundamentalists and are all arrogant and condescending. And all for the same reason they feel that way about Christians, isn't it wonderful!
 
The way I see it, at lest I'm aware of my ignorance and have the opportunity to work against it and one day I might even get rid of it. So everyone, don't hesitate to point out my flaws, those are opportunities!
 
radarmark said:
.. 1) there are a lot of wanker theists who define g!d as some kind of anthropomorphic Superman-Father, ..
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Is there any other kind of God with them? They are not talking of something like Brahman, who does not create - changeless, does not interfere - without attributes, but just is.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Is there any other kind of God with them? They are not talking of something like Brahman, who does not create - changeless, does not interfere - without attributes, but just is.
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Sure there are, we've talked a lot about that over the months, how many different theists there are. Many different organisations have different foundations and individuals within differ from one another. Just the other week the Church of Sweden elected it's first female Archdiocese, she has gotten some flack for being a bit 'fuzzy' about here beliefs about virgin birth for example.

Gordian Knot said:
I'm curious Tea. Why the extreme prejudice towards atheists?
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Same reason as you, just my unfortunate experience.
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
The way I see it, at lest I'm aware of my ignorance and have the opportunity to work against it and one day I might even get rid of it. So everyone, don't hesitate to point out my flaws, those are opportunities!
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I don't see people as having flaws in and of themselves, but sometimes our thinking can be flawed. Unfortunately many people were raised with the idea that we don't make mistakes, we ARE mistakes. Shame and blame aren't only two of the eight worldly concerns of Buddhism they are also the way many parents treat their children, leaving them with few healthy models of who they are.
Having said that, it appears that anger or antipathy toward any specific group may mean something entirely different when seen in the light of bare attention. in this case, dear ACOT, it appears that you have suffered pain and your feelings are important and real, they just aren't an accurate descriptor of people who identify as atheist.
Typically we tend to view our group as being very diversified while opposing groups are "all alike" or homogeneous. This in-group vs. out-group behavior is pretty normal for most people.
 
My flaws are your amusement and your flaws are my amusement. Nothing wrong with flaws. We have just nice discussions here. So, don't worry, Tea. :)
 
Flaws our part of what makes us human. It is good we have them as it gives us an opportunity to overcome them if we so desire! Flaws, like mistakes, are only negative is we never learn from them.
 
Thank you for your concern Paladin.
It isn't has harsh as I apparently make it out to be, there haven't been any pain involved just frustration.
 
Oh I am definitely guessing...but it is an educated guess based on emprical data, anecdotal evidence. I am fairly confident in my assessment, I don't believe I said all... surely couldn't do that, but I know a number of atheists, and I discuss religion, faith, theology often. Many of my atheist friends think me the invisible sky faerie in the sky guy...becuase they can't see theism any other way.

G!d is principle to me, not judging, not personal, just is....but more than just is...just is love, not loving, just love, just is joy, not joyful, just joy, just is not nonjudgemental...just not judging at all.

I goto church every week, not always mine...I see a lot of various religious, non religious, spiritual, atheists, agnostics, apatheists....
 
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