Biblical beliefs....whatever they are.

muhammad_isa said:
I was referring to the meaning of:-
John 8:51, “Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
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John 8:50- Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it and he will be the judge. 51- Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52- The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, as did the prophets; and you say, ‘If any one keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53- Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?” 54- Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55- But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56- Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.”

Do you know anyone who doesn't die? Jesus referred to the dead as SLEEPING- since he will be the one resurrecting them.
 
John 8:50- Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it and he will be the judge.
51- Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death.”
52- The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, as did the prophets; and you say, ‘If any one keeps my word, he will never taste death.’
53- Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?”
54- Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God.
55- But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word.
56- Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.”

His fellow Jews took it the way YOU see it; they were experiencing death, too.
It is apparent that Jesus is referring to the future time when he would rule- and he will be the one resurrecting them!
 
theMadJW said:
His fellow Jews took it the way YOU see it; they were experiencing death, too.
It is apparent that Jesus is referring to the future time when he would rule- and he will be the one resurrecting them!
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You see what you want to see .. through the eyes of your "elders" ;)

It's quite clear to me .. Jesus is not referring to "earthly death" .. not at all !
 
muhammad_isa said:
You see what you want to see .. through the eyes of your "elders"
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My first contemplation was elders? Thought that was mormon....not JW...but like our indigenous and others elders is used by various groups in various ways.

Then it made me contemplate...don't we all develop what we see through the eyes of our elders? Be it in life, in a classroom, or our religious settings?

And then I wondered about each of us...would our elders (be they our religious leaders, teachers, or parents) be pleased with our posts on this site and the way we have treated others with our words?

And then I looked at JWs command to their elders...An elder may not be a “smiter,” either physically or with his tongue. He must not be belligerent....oops!
 
Faithfulservant said:
I just wish evangelical Christians were as good as JW at spreading their message. When they come to my door with their tracts my 110 lb German shepherd scares them off but I know that they say that they use the same bible as I do.
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They usually leave my house shaking their heads and walking quickly away...
 
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Clearly there is more to life and death than the mortal coil.

To quote Charlie Daniels, "There's some things in this world you just can't explain."
 
theMadJW said:
It (Churchianity) even believes Jesus NEVER died- that he was ALIVE the whole time! He PRETENDED to die!
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That is your strawman fallacy to convince yourself you know something...deliberately taking advantage of limitations of language to twist into an alternate interpretation.

No Christian church I have ever been in said anything of the sort. How could Jesus fulfill prophecy of Psalm 22 unless he gave up the ghost? How could Jesus fulfill the role of Paschal Lamb blood sacrifice unless he gave up the ghost?

Eloi, Eloi...Lama Sabachthani!
 
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wil said:
It definitely gets stretched by gluttony and scarred by sharp objects, but it does do a pretty good job of holding this meat suit together while we explore this level of existence and imagine there are others.
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It is the temple of our soul that needs to be treated with respect, a gift from God to enable is to choose our spiritual limbs.

Even Christ, the Holy Spirit is Annointed to a flesh body, as are we who house the human spirit for such a very limited time.

Both the flesh of jesus with the Holy spirit and us with human Spirit, dies and decompose back into its elements to disperse and never exist again. Yet our Spirit lives on, either alive with Christ the Holy Spirt, having obtained our spiritual limbs of Love, Honesty, Truthfulness, Trustworthiness or dead and handicapped in our own mind.

The world is yet to wake up to a new day of God, but it will wake, either of uts own choices or as God so Will's.

That is the day we have all work for, that of a mass awakening.

Regards Tony
 
The nature of the animal is such that it is nearly impossible to address with certainty, and it is that modicum of doubt that atheists feed off of.

The mortal, flesh, corporeal body is self evident...it is here, we can see it, touch it, smell it.

Some suggest a further entity, basically our consciousness, our personality, our intellect, comprises a body of sorts that inhabits the physical body.

Then there is the spirit body that animates it all, "'ere the silver cord should break," as stated in Ecclesiastes:

Ecclesiastes 12, beginning verse 5:
because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. 8Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
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There are teachings of other faiths of the silver cord, the soul is not attached to the brain or the heart. From my studies the silver cord is attached to the solar plexus or very close to it. Regardless, I have enough personal evidence to convince me it is there. All I can provide is anecdotal hearsay, but my understanding is not based in wishful thinking alone.
 
theMadJW said:
Churchianity distorts the Bible at EVERY TURN! It even believes Jesus NEVER died- that he was ALIVE the whole time!
He PRETENDED to die!
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juantoo3 said:
No Christian church I have ever been in said anything of the sort.
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The idea being referred to (pretending to die) could either be referring to the "swoon hypothesis" or to docetism.
As far as I know, no mainstream modern church has any such dogmatic teaching. (=juantoo is correct)
I don't know if it comes up in anything like the UU or Unity or Rosucrucians or even an offshoot like Trinitarian Wicca, (I doubt it really but who knows) but as far as I know, nothing in what @MadJW called Churchianity teaches that Jesus never died. It would be antithetical to what they are trying to teach.

Whether one thinks the mainstream churches ["churchianity"] are right or wrong... it doesn't pay to misunderstand or distort what they actually believe.
(If you [anyone but in this case @MadJW] disagree with mainstream churches - and believe me I get it -- there's plenty to discuss without misquoting them/misstating their actual teachings)

SWOON THEORY: “Jesus didn’t really die… He revived in the tomb.” | Evidence Unseen

www.evidenceunseen.com www.evidenceunseen.com

Docetism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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juantoo3 said:
not if you are dead...according to what you have written now several times I've seen
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I'm sure they mean post-resurrection. This sounds familiar enough to me.
Much of the fundamental JW theology is not unlike what the WCG (Armstrong) churches taught.
Armstrong churches were a spinoff of the SDAs but also influenced by JW thinking and possibly Mormons (though whether directly, or indirectly in the way the SDAs were influenced by Mormonism, I'm not sure) WCG may also have been influenced a bit by the holiness movement and to me it seems probable they were also influenced by Christadelphians.
 
TheLightWithin said:
I'm sure they mean post-resurrection. This sounds familiar enough to me.
Much of the fundamental JW theology is not unlike what the WCG (Armstrong) churches taught.
Armstrong churches were a spinoff of the SDAs but also influenced by JW thinking and possibly Mormons (though whether directly, or indirectly in the way the SDAs were influenced by Mormonism, I'm not sure) WCG may also have been influenced a bit by the holiness movement and to me it seems probable they were also influenced by Christadelphians.
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What is it you believe? I see you analyzing and dissecting everybody else (the Christians, anyway), but keep your cards close to your vest.

One might say you spend a LOT of time reading the menu, do you ever get around to ordering the entree?
 
juantoo3 said:
What is it you believe? I see you analyzing and dissecting everybody else (the Christians, anyway), but keep your cards close to your vest.

One might say you spend a LOT of time reading the menu, do you ever get around to ordering the entree?
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Entree? They haven't even seated me yet. :(
 
juantoo3 said:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Clearly there is more to life and death than the mortal coil.

To quote Charlie Daniels, "There's some things in this world you just can't explain."
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You churchoids ALWAYS miss the last part of the scripture. And "hell" is a mistanslation.
Just about EVERY church teaches Jesus was alive after being executed- he even 'took that thief to heaven' based on the misplaced comma!
 
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