Biblical beliefs....whatever they are.

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You churchoids ALWAYS miss the last part of the scripture. And "hell" is a mistanslation.
Just about EVERY church teaches Jesus was alive after being executed- he even 'took that thief to heaven' based on the misplaced comma!
There is no such thing as a comma in ancient Greek.


And if you are interested.

 
There is no such thing as a comma in ancient Greek.


And if you are interested.


It's because they PLACED a coma there!
 
I was having a brain-fart; it was the wrong scripture!

It was Luke 23:43- Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
 
View attachment 3539

You churchoids ALWAYS miss the last part of the scripture. And "hell" is a mistanslation.
Just about EVERY church teaches Jesus was alive after being executed- he even 'took that thief to heaven' based on the misplaced comma!
You paint with a VERY BROAD brush. You don't even know me and make presumptions. You don't know what I believe and you sit in judgment, as if that is your place.

Stake, Cross, "T," "X," what flippin' difference does it make? It was a gruesome form of execution, designed to instill the utmost suffering.

Pray tell...what do you DO with your faith? It is what you do that exposes your heart, and it is your heart that is judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.
 
You paint with a VERY BROAD brush. You don't even know me and make presumptions. You don't know what I believe and you sit in judgment, as if that is your place.

Stake, Cross, "T," "X," what flippin' difference does it make? It was a gruesome form of execution, designed to instill the utmost suffering.

Pray tell...what do you DO with your faith? It is what you do that exposes your heart, and it is your heart that is judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

"Hell" is a mistranslation. No 'broad brush' or 'sitting in judgement".
And only Christ (and his God) know our hearts.
 
"Hell" is a mistranslation. No 'broad brush' or 'sitting in judgement".
And only Christ (and his God) know our hearts.
Accusative language is by definition judging, so yes, when you accuse me and most of it so far off the mark as to be hilarious, you are in fact sitting in judgment of me.

To see what I think about the matter, try reading this old thread of mine and see if we can find some "sane" points of agreement or at least discussion. https://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/8875/

And I noticed you dodged my simple question...show your heart. What do you DO with your faith. Tear others down, or build others up?
 
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What? You didn't make a reservation?

Nice dodge!
They don't pick up the phone!
Nice Pontiac!

(in reality... we have a subaru...)
[also, i have posted about my beliefs in my intro post as well as in other recent threads where someone asked directly about personal beliefs]
 
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Ok how do you get around John 3:16? Whoever that believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. I'm assuming when you say they die it's final.. nothing afterwards??
I think they believe the afterlife comes at the resurrection.
SDAs, the Armstrong churches, Christadelphians, 7th Day Baptists, 7th Day Anabaptists, also believe this and I think the JWs are the same.
 
I was having a brain-fart; it was the wrong scripture!
It was Luke 23:43- Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
Ah ... Oh dear ... I can explain that apparent inconsistency, but I fear you really would have a breakdown.
 
Ah ... Oh dear ... I can explain that apparent inconsistency, but I fear you really would have a breakdown.
But please do explain, anyway
 
Now now...are you seeking joy in another's pain?
Not at all. I am interested in how @Thomas will explain the fact Christ promised the good thief would be with Him 'this day' in paradise -- when Christian belief is that when men die they will not be resurrected until the last day, when all will be resurrected, and the sorting of the sheep from goats, wheat from tares etc, takes place?
 
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So MadJW having a breakdown is just an added bonus?

Personally I think if he could calm down a moment and take a deep breath and approach the discussions with a bit more composed demeanor, he might have some interesting points of view to add. But as long as everything he throws out is accusative and judgmental (and with an arrogant air), he will get what he sets himself up to receive. I don't have high hopes, but it would be a nice refreshing change from the norm around here.
 
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As it's you, @RJM.

As my tutor asked at one residential. "Were there only two Persons in heaven when Jesus walked and talked with His disciples?"
Short answer: No.

The Trinity is One, the Three are, in that sense, indivisible – where One is, all Three are, etc., etc.

The person walking the earth is the human person Jesus, born of Mary. The Divine Person is, by virtue of His divine 'nature' – not bound by time, space, or any other dimension. It's as the Church declares, a hypostatic union.

So if the phone should ring in heaven, and (say) an archangel answers, and the voice on the other end of the line says, "Is Jesus there?" The answer is always and eternally 'yes' – it cannot be otherwise. In the same way when God spoke to Abraham or Moses or whoever, God was not absent from heaven whilst on an errand.

So when Jesus said, "today, you shall be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) He says so because He is already there, even while He is also present in the person hanging from the cross, although not suffering, nor dying.

In my rather silly example, please note that Luke uses two distinct terms for 'heaven' and 'paradise' and the difference between the two sits in line with Jewish and Christian eschatalogical speculation.

Generally, paradise (from the Persian) is a garden – it's used three times in the Hebrew Scriptures to refer to such, but in post-exilic writings became associated with the state of those who sleep in the bosom of Abraham/Moses – it's a nicer part of Sheol where the just exist until the final resurrection.

Paradise is where 'God walks with us' – whereas heaven is where He dwells. So really, if you're in the presence of God, the eschatalogical postcode (ZIP code) is hardly important ... we could live in paradise now ... and perhaps some do, althougb its generally believed that no true sould can be at rest while others suffer ...
 
I might need to read that a few times, lol ...
 
Not at all. I am interested in how @Thomas will explain the fact Christ promised the good thief would be with Him 'this day' in paradise -- when Christian belief is that when men die they will not be resurrected until the last day, when all will be resurrected, and the sorting of the sheep from goats, wheat from tares etc, takes place?
I want to answer this because @Thomas answer differs from mine if that's ok? Paradise is Abraham's bosom which is in the place of the dead ( Hades or Sheol) Christ didn't resurrect until 3 days later in His glorified body when later He ascended to heaven.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, (Hades) G86 strongs concordance. neither his flesh did see corruption.



When He died the temple curtain tore in two at the moment of Jesus’ death dramatically also symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile.

Acts 17:24
24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man

We also believe that the resurrection of the dead will be in stages. Jesus was the first.

Here is a link explaining it. I'm working so it would take too long to paraphrase.


Jesus also said He was going to prepare a place for us and His Father had many mansions. I believe that explains the level of heavens or rooms we will come to occupy.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I don't claim to speak for all Christians but this knowledge gives me peace and hope. This is not a salvation issue but I've seen too many deaths of loved ones. God is good.

I love this entire chapter. It's food for my weary soul.

 
So when Jesus said, "today, you shall be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) He says so because He is already there, even while He is also present in the person hanging from the cross, although not suffering, nor dying.
It's even simpler than THAT Thomas: There are No commas in the Koine Greek.
So, Jesus said "I tell you today, you WILL be with me in paradise!" (Like "I'm telling you here and now...")
 
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