There is no justice if atheism is true

Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
I see that no human, born of the human Spirit, hears the voice of God. I see we can hear what was given to us by the Messengers and in that way, we hear what God offers humanity.

I need to add, we are able to hear the Holy Spirit, if we embrace the Messengers, which is the only voice we can hear, that voice of the Spirit, is given of God.

Regards Tony
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I think real teachers try to set people free. Good teachers don't try to inculcate a lifelong dependence upon themselves
 
muhammad_isa said:
Oh yes he did. Example:-

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
- Luke 13 -
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Or did Luke just make that up?
After all, he was no witness to any of it
 
RJM said:
I think real teachers try to set people free. Good teachers don't try to inculcate a lifelong dependence upon themselves
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We can consider that God given teachers have been given a special station.

They offer messages that can release ourselves from the bondage of this world.

That is why Jesus said we must be born again, born from the flesh into the Spirit.

Regards Tony
 
badger said:
Or did Luke just make that up?
After all, he was no witness to any of it
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Then why do you ask for Bible references -- if you can just reject, as corrupted, the passages you don't like?
 
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RJM said:
The Rich Man and Lazarus

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Luke 16:19-31
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Now, if Jesus really did say that, just how many Christians can survive the torment of Hades?
If they believe in that then why don't they live it?
 
badger said:
Now, if Jesus really did say that, just how many Christians can survive the torment of Hades?
If they believe in that then why don't they live it?
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You asked for a passage where Jesus referenced the afterlife. I provided it. What parts of what Jesus said do you like, and what parts do you not like? You don't accept the passages you don't like, and accept the ones you do like That's all you have
 
RJM said:
Then why do you ask for Bible references -- if you can just reject as corrupted the passages you don't like?
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But that is how I can say that I don't think Jesus did speak such things. I have needed to sieve through those gospels. Even some Christians do that , being interested only in the promises of eternal life. I'm more interested in an historical Jesus, but that's me .
 
badger said:
But that is how I can say that I don't think Jesus did speak such things. I have needed to sieve through those gospels. Even some Christians do that , being interested only in the promises of eternal life. I'm more interested in an historical Jesus, but that's me .
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In hearing only what you want to hear ...
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
When you do not quote the quote (and there are more) it would be easy to dismiss what was offered and come to that conclusion, but then Justice is compromised.

Regards Tony
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Are you suggesting that the Bab wrote commands to his followers that he did not mean?
 
@badger
So when responding to your requests for New Testament references, is it only passages from Mark that are acceptable to you -- and not even all of Mark, but only those passages from Mark that fit your paradigm?
 
RJM said:
Then why do you ask for Bible references -- if you can just reject, as corrupted, the passages you don't like?
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You never know, because sometimes a quote can make a big difference. But Luke wasn't there so I take care with him.
 
RJM said:
@badger
So when responding to your requests for New Testament references, is it only passages from Mark that are acceptable to you -- and not even all of Mark, but only those passages from Mark that fit your paradigm?
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Not all Mark. Many accounts and informations found their way in to the gospels.
 
RJM said:
when something out of context might fit your conspiracy theory ... then it's ok

Been down this road too many times
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Conspiracy theory?
Try conspiracy charge.
 
badger said:
It's hard to accept every line imo, because I notice contradictions .....do you?
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Yes. But you ask for references, and when they are provided you pooh pooh the references, because you don't like them -- because you alone have it all right -- you alone know what's going on -- and therefore only what fits your paradigm exists for you
 
badger said:
Are you suggesting that the Bab wrote commands to his followers that he did not mean?
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No, only that there was a higher hidden purpose. The Bab'i had no peace to practice the law, they were being slaughtered.

A purpose that very few grasped at the time. God always has a reason. Only if we try, will we start to unravel that meaning.

Regards Tony
 
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