Do serve God...or a 'Trinity'?

talib-al-kalim said:
Is God not with you?
Jesus was given the name God Saves. Who saves?
God doesn't conform anyway. His Word and His Spirit is. The righteous prophets spread out what they received from it, that we may conform us to His rules and His Kingdom.
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The risen Christ is more than just another righteous prophet -- regardless the Quran instructs Christians what to believe about Jesus
 
harmonicat said:
So the holy spirit is an unnamed person. Haven't you ever wondered why this 'third person' has never been identified? You say they are equal yet Jesus' own words LITERALLY debunks that!

The holy spirit is the power of God...

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

My bible says Jesus' ministry began "in the power of the Spirit."

In Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit is identified as "the power of the Highest."

Speaking of the Holy Spirit, which would be given to His followers after His death, Jesus told them, "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you..." (Acts 1:8).

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

Another verses...
"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

"Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost."

"Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."
If you would do a little footwork, you would also see that to identify the holy spirit the word HE was added by translators. The interlinear words it like this, "it-shall-be-guiding" - That's correct - IT! You can't dispute it. The KJV adds and removes more than you think.


Whenever the power of the holy is present, a being is likely present. It could be the spirit of Jesus or a divine being angel. IOW - a holy being is often present to administer this POWER. This is NOT a third person of a man-made trinity.
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According to the Quran, sent Mary His Word and His Spirit. The revealed Word is part of His all-comprising Principle/Logic/Law, the outside. The Spirit is God in us, the inside.
 
talib-al-kalim said:
According to the Quran, sent Mary His Word and His Spirit. The revealed Word is part of His all-comprising Principle/Logic/Law, the outside. The Spirit is God in us, the inside.
Click to expand...
talib-al-kalim said:
Is God not with you?
Jesus was given the name God Saves. Who saves?
God doesn't conform anyway. His Word and His Spirit is. The righteous prophets spread out what they received from it, that we may conform us to His rules and His Kingdom.
Click to expand...

Jesus saves and forgives sin. I am not Jesus. I do not accept the Quran
 
RJM said:
The risen Christ is more than just another righteous prophet -- regardless the Quran instructs Christians what to believe about Jesus
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Jesus is just, and he's righteous, and he is a prophet, that's already much. The Quran confirms that he is the Messiah, with all this implies without repeating the entire Gospel.
 
talib-al-kalim said:
Jesus is just, and he's righteous, and he is a prophet, that's already much. The Quran confirms that he is the Messiah, with all this implies without repeating the entire Gospel.
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The Quran does not accept the incarnation or the resurrection or the divinity of Jesus the Christ
 
talib-al-kalim said:
Not true.

Not true

True.
I will edit and explain this later.
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That's fine. I look forward to your explanation. However I personally do not accept the validity or inspiration of the Quran.

The Quran Jesus is a lifeless puppet figure

Therefore the fact something is written in the Quran is not to me an argument.

(edited)
 
I completely respect Quran Islam as a closed loop religion and cosmology where individual Muslims have truth, peace and enlightenment. But I totally reject anything but the most superficial crossover with the New Testament Christ and Christianity.

Just my own thoughts
 
RJM said:
The non-matetial essence of a human being -- that continues on after death of the body
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Well, no evidence. Something like God.
Faithfulservant said:
My faith teaches that you are a lost one. It also teaches that man is appointed once to die and then the judgement.
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Your faith could not have survived without carrots and swords.
 
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Aupmanyav said:
Well, no evidence. Something like God.
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Except for personal experience of the divine -- not just my own but countless others -- which you put down to self-delusion. So there can't be material evidence for non-material states outside of timespace nature, that is the limit of material science.

There's no reason the universe should limit itself to only the timespace dimension of nature, which is the material limit of human ability to perceive or measure -- but that doesn't mean humans don't have other non-material perceptions, not limited to just the material world, imo
 
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Aupmanyav said:
People are welcome to their non-material perceptions, I do not go by them.
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That's understood. However it doesn't completely negate their perceptions, imo
 
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I said:
But I totally reject anything but the most superficial crossover with [the Quran] and the New Testament Christ and Christianity.
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Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
Romans 3:19-25
 
RJM said:
The Quran does not accept the incarnation or the resurrection or the divinity of Christ
Click to expand...

Quran 3:35
The Angels said, “O Mary, God gives you the Good News, a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, well-esteemed in this world and the next, and one of the nearest. He will speak to the people from the crib, and in adulthood, and will be one of the righteous.”

She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child, when no man has touched me?”
He said, “It will be so. God creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.”
19:30-34

Jesus said, “I am the servant of God. He has given me the Scripture, and made me a prophet. And has made me blessed wherever I may be; and has enjoined on me prayer and charity, so long as I live. And kind to my mother, and He did not make me a disobedient rebel. So Peace is upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I get resurrected alive.”
That is Jesus son of Mary – the Word of truth about which they doubt.

It is not for God to have a child – glory be to Him. To have anything done, He says to it, “Be,” and it becomes.

Jesus is the Word of Truth, of divine origin.
He is from God, He made him -
The difference to orthodox Christianity is that the Quran states that he is made, not begotten (as in the Nicene creed), and not consubstantial with the Father. The creed is not confirmed in the Gospel accounts.

3:54-55
They planned, and God planned; but God is the Best of planners. God said, “O Jesus, I am terminating your life, and raising you to Me,
and clearing you of those who disbelieve. And I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection.
Then to Me is your return; then I will judge between you regarding what you were disputing.

"They" in the beginning is the Jewish (and Roman) authorities who wanted to kill him. "you" in the last sentence are probably the Jews on one side and the Christians and Muslim on the other side.

The Quran confirms the resurection. The return of Christ is not mentioned directly in the Quran but confirmed in hadith.

5:72
They disbelieve those who say, “God is the Messiah, the son of Mary.” But the Messiah himself said, “O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates others with God, God has forbidden him Paradise, and his dwelling is the Fire. The wrongdoers have no saviours.”

The Quran says that Jesus and God are not the same, and we should worship God only. This is not in contradiction of the Gospel.
 
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RJM said:
I completely respect Quran Islam as a closed loop religion and cosmology where individual Muslims have truth, peace and enlightenment. But I totally reject anything but the most superficial crossover with the New Testament Christ and Christianity.

Just my own thoughts
Click to expand...
I see Islam as a religion comprising Christianity, Judaism and the Ishmaelite tradition. The Quran superseeds a great part of the teachings of the Ishmaelite tradition that had become a hierarchical polytheist religion, confirms a great part of the Law of Moses (it was/is not clear whether or what non-Jewish Christian should follow), and only denies a small part of Christian teachings that are of secondary, post-Gospel origin.

In my view. Islam has lost this conciousness that is present in the Quran, but has become a religion only referring to Muhammad.
 
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