Do serve God...or a 'Trinity'?
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Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Personally for me as a Christian I have trouble with accepting Islam because God inspired real people to write the Bible. To 40 authors over 1,500 years from different walks of life including fisherman, physicians, and shepherds. Islam is based on the writings of 1 man over 500 years later that replaced fundamental teachings Christianity like The Trinity and Jesus' divinity. In all of the prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled indeed no reference to another prophet to replace Jesus Christ' teachings to His church. With all due respect.
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
As I am concerned, you are actually running in open doors when you say that is is an error to read only the Quran and reject all the other prophets.
This is not the intention of the Quran.
The scriptures are like a hologram. In a hologram, you find almost all the aspects of the whole in each part, but those that are in the foreground of the perspective are clear, and those in the background are blurred. You find many messages of the Torah in the Gospel and the Quran, but as you would not read the Gospel to find out what is written in the Torah, you should not read the Quran to find out the Gospel.
The Quran has nothing to teach Christians about Jesus, is my message. I wish Muslims would stop doing it, imo
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
I choose the New Testament Jesus
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Check Bahai.
Don't forget Muhammad, otherwise your Shahada is not complete.
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The knowledge of Jesus is part of the worship of God the Most High, for Muslims as well as Christians?I choose to worship God, the Most High.
..and there is none that compares .. the Infinite One, the All-Knowing.
But the Quran Prophet Jesus Son of Mary is a lot different from the New Testament Christ. I've no issue with Muslims venerating their Quran 'Prophet Jesus'.
To carry on here: by The Bible in the context of Christian scripture, do you mean primarily the New Testament, which includes the writings of Paul?
Is there a way to reconcile the writings of Paul with the Quran? Most Muslims seem to believe that the writings of Paul, and also much of John, are 'corruptions' to the Injeel which was given to Jesus?
Is there a Christian denomination that uses the New Testament without the Pauline writings?
Also just repeating that for all its human failings over time, it is the Catholic Church that preserved the New Testament writings down 2000 years, through all the darkness and wars and social changes -- copied faithfully by generations of monks -- until the emergence of the printing press in Luther's time.
Without the Catholic Church, there would truly probably be no Injeel or Bible memory record of Jesus Christ?
@talib-al-kalim
I understand -- and you have said -- that your interpretation of the Quran may be different from that of 'most Muslims' in that you appear to accept the Incarnation and the Resurrection (therefore the death on the cross) of the Christ in Jesus?
It's understood how the Quran passage 4:157 may be read differently in context from the common Muslim interpretation, so there's no need to re-enter that discussion here, imo:
Thank you
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Well, my attitude here is that The Christ link between Spirit and nature, God and man, was begotten of Spirit before time began, and was and is therefore part of the (continuing) weaving of the temporal and physical dimension of nature by the eternal dimension of Spirit that surrounds and contains and permeates nature, like a room in a house.
I personally prefer the Apostles Creed to the Nicene Creed:
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talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
Muslim should read the Tanach and the Gospel. The attitude towards Paul and the other epistles would rather be received as a comment and a document, not as a prophecy.
I can reconcile John with the Quran, although he has a very different access, and it seems pleonastic. Paul is not a corruption but some of his explanations may be refused.
Don't know any.
If Catholic means the whole church,, for sure. The Greek church was probably more important for the preservation than the Roman.
I have answered this in a post in thread 'Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death.' http://www.interfaith.org/community/threads/20038/post-370240
@talib-al-kalim
Thanks for your response post #333 above
Thanks for your response post #333 above
I agree. No need to continue the point here, imohave answered this in a post in thread 'Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death.'
Quran says that Jesus Christ died a natural death.
From what I understand, a hadith can be classified as explicit or implicit [sarih or hukmi] If you stick to English, it would be easier. You are saying that they are not genuine .. authentic .. right? That's a little different to saying genuine or authentic, but yes you could deem it that way...www.interfaith.org
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Yet the Pauline writings predate the Gospels?
Foundational not peripheral or apocryphal, in the estimation of the Church that faithfully preserved them down though two millenia
moralorel
Well-Known Member
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1. The Hebrew word for soul is "nephesh" which also means "creature" or "being". Ezekiel uses this same word when he said in Ezekiel 18:4 "The soul who sins shall surely die". I know of no scripture that states that the soul of anyone lives on after death.
2. Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
I would assume you already know that commas didn't exist in Greek writings. So an interpreter placed the comma in the incorrect spot.
"Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise".
See? Moving the comma changes the meaning. Jesus asserted to the thief that He had determined, today, that the thief would be in paradise with Him. The thief is still dead, as is his soul. Either that or Jesus contradicted the Bible. I think it's safe to say the comma was placed incorrectly.
..according to your own creed, maybe..
The vast majority of Christians and Muslims believe otherwise.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I have a few things about this .
You could easily use that same argument by saying someone put a comma in the wrong place.
My next thing is that Jesus is consistent.. nowhere else in ALL His Truly or Assuredly did He add the word Today as if He was speaking for that moment. So your argument changes the entire doctrine of absent from the body present with the Lord. If we didn't have souls how could we be absent from our bodies?
2 Cor 5:6-8 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
1 These 5:23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ecc 12:7 And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Rev 6:9-11When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
He 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Acts 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Mark 12:30 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
Deut 6:5 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
Rev 4:2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.
I think perhaps @moralorel is saying (according to scripture) the souls of men are not revived to life until the last judgement? Until then the soul is in a state of suspended animation. But for that soul, no time seems to have passed since death of the body.
Would time have any meaning ?
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Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Why would Jesus tell the story of Lazarus at Abraham's side and the rich man in Hades then? I believe everything Jesus said was with purpose and full of truth. Why would Abraham be able to speak to the rich man if he wasn't a soul without a body... by then his body would have been dust. This story would have made no sense to the listeners if they had believed we had no soul.
www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16:19-31 - English Standard Version
The Rich Man and Lazarus - “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and...