Do serve God...or a 'Trinity'?

harmonicat said:
So the holy spirit is an unnamed person. Haven't you ever wondered why this 'third person' has never been identified? You say they are equal yet Jesus' own words LITERALLY debunks that!
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The Holy Spirit is known by many names. Wisdom is one of them.. once again you are using the same argument..there is a relational subordination that has nothing to do with the equality of the triune God.
harmonicat said:
The holy spirit is the power of God...

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

My bible says Jesus' ministry began "in the power of the Spirit."

In Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit is identified as "the power of the Highest."

Speaking of the Holy Spirit, which would be given to His followers after His death, Jesus told them, "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you..." (Acts 1:8).

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

Another verses...
"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

"Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost."

"Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."
If you would do a little footwork, you would also see that to identify the holy spirit the word HE was added by translators. The interlinear words it like this, "it-shall-be-guiding" - That's correct - IT! You can't dispute it. The KJV adds and removes more than you think.


Whenever the power of the holy is present, a being is likely present. It could be the spirit of Jesus or a divine being angel. IOW - a holy being is often present to administer this POWER. This is NOT a third person of a man-made trinity.
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I feel like you made my argument for me. Thank you. How can you grieve a verb..how can you anger a verb. How can a verb also be referred to as a noun.. study your Greek a bit more. How can a verb descend physically as a dove on Jesus at the same time the Father speaks from heaven. I have a very personal relationship with the Holy Spirit.. I also have had negative relationships with evil spirits that I had to overcome with my Helper and my Comforter. Both nouns btw.

I'm sorry if I'm offending you with my belief. You are not going to convince me differently and you can continue to accuse..Satan does that all the time.. I keep my armor on because of this.
 
RJM said:
Young children are protected by nursery walls and guardians from traffic and the greater reality of the world that would destroy them because they're not yet equipped to handle it -- so is man sheltered by coats of skin, within a nursery dimension, imo
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I agree, it takes time and understanding to become an atheist.
 
harmonicat said:
Thomas referred to Jesus as "HIS" God which was a common way of speaking and shows a broader meaning

The word 'theos' is used multiple ways. Its primary definition is, "a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.

God is distinguished from Jesus, and Jesus has a God, John 20:17 reads, "Jesus said to her, ‘Do not touch me, because I have not yet gone up to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am going up to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God." How would ‘God’ (Jesus) have a ‘God’ (the Father) if there is only one God (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 44:6; John 17:3)? So, it would be rather strange for us to confuse God and Jesus here in John 20:28, making them one and the same.
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So Jesus is "Thomas's God"?

So were the apostles confused? But some random person on the internet is correct instead?

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.”

Romans 9:5 ”To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.”

Titus 2:13 “waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Hebrews 1:8 ”But of the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.'”

2 Peter 1:1 ”To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”
 
harmonicat said:
Thomas referred to Jesus as "HIS" God which was a common way of speaking and shows a broader meaning

The word 'theos' is used multiple ways. Its primary definition is, "a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities.

God is distinguished from Jesus, and Jesus has a God, John 20:17 reads, "Jesus said to her, ‘Do not touch me, because I have not yet gone up to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, “I am going up to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God." How would ‘God’ (Jesus) have a ‘God’ (the Father) if there is only one God (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 44:6; John 17:3)? So, it would be rather strange for us to confuse God and Jesus here in John 20:28, making them one and the same.
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You didn't answer my original question. Abraham? Moses? Joshua? Who did they meet and worship? I assume you know that nobody has met God the Father face to face. So who did they meet?

Nobody here is claiming that Jesus is God the Father. According to scripture, there is only one God the Father.
 
RJM said:
Young children are protected by nursery walls and guardians from traffic and the greater reality of the world that would destroy them because they're not yet equipped to handle it -- so is man sheltered by coats of skin, within a nursery dimension, imo
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Aupmanyav said:
I agree, it takes time and understanding to become an atheist.
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But the soul learns the lessons of the nursery dimension of this world of nature, and then progresses to more advanced states of knowledge and experience, imo

My Father's house has many mansions
 
Aupmanyav said:
RJM, you are turning in to an atheist. :D
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No I don't think it's reasonable to believe that, in the absence of some superior alien species, than man is the highest intelligence in an unconscious universe originating by pure chance.

Or that my own personal experience of higher spiritual beings and small miracles is pure self delusion
 
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RJM said:
One try at life on Earth, then heaven or hell for eternity -- who could entertain such a crazy notion?
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As we saw on another thread, I pointed out that nowhere in the Bible does it say that people go straight to heaven when they die. Likewise it never says that people go straight to an eternal hell after death.
 
moralorel said:
As we saw on another thread, I pointed out that nowhere in the Bible does it say that people go straight to heaven when they die. Likewise it never says that people go straight to an eternal hell after death.
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Absent from the body present with the Lord. Where is Jesus then?

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6–8, ESV).

Where do you think we go when we die?
 
Faithfulservant said:
Where do you think we go when we die?
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Michigan
 
Faithfulservant said:
Absent from the body present with the Lord. Where is Jesus then?

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6–8, ESV).

Where do you think we go when we die?
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1. According to scripture, Jesus is in Heaven.

2. We go to the dirt. At least that is what King Solomon said.
 
I think other life forms surround us all the time -- higher and lower than man -- they're just not the corporeal carbon-based life we are looking for out there. The Earth itself is a living entity.

Every planet harbours life. We just aren't able to recognize it.

This timespace dimension of nature in which we are aware is just one of many other dimensions that interweave. There are great angelic multi-dimensional beings not limited by space and time, able to move between worlds and dimensions, imo. They might choose to reveal themselves to certain 'seers' or to remain hidden from man.

The reality we perceive with our limited natural senses is just a tiny slice of the dimension of nature to which we are confined by our carbon based bodies.

All our wonderful scientific instruments, our telescopes and microscopes and colliders -- and they are truly wonderful -- are really just an extension of our human senses of sight, hearing, and so on. Our instruments cannot probe beyond the timespace singularity, where 'nature' ends.

Whatever 'I' may be -- I take something onward, at least some germ or seed, when I pass-on beyond

Perhaps a torturer indeed enters a hell dimension ... there's no time in a dream

Always just my own thoughts
 
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moralorel said:
1. According to scripture, Jesus is in Heaven.

2. We go to the dirt. At least that is what King Solomon said.
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Ok I agree that our bodies return to dust but what about our souls? Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would would be with Him in paradise that day?
 
harmonicat said:
Did someone offend me? Here's a reply from an illustrious Trinitarian on another forum. I'll let you decide...

"Actually you'd be correct that ALL Christians DO believe in the Doctrine of the Trinity, for the simple reason that it's clearly, and blatantly taught in the Scriptures. All people professing faith in the LORD Jesus Christ, while denying His LORDship, are deceived, and are members of non-Christian cults. To deny the Trinity and yet claim to be a Christian is like denying the Law of Moses and claiming to be an orthodox Jew. So again, no matter what they might say, no matter what they name their religious organization, they are outside the covenant; strangers to God; under His wrath and curse, and will die in their sins unless they repent (which is a gift of God, and not something a person musters up within himself) and believe upon the LORD Jesus Christ. Anyone reading the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, and taking them as they clearly teach cannot but walk away with anything other than a Trinitarian Doctrine. Those who deny this absolutely essential Doctrine prove themselves to be unregenerate, and as the Apostle John described them, antichrist."
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It's not taught anywhere in the scriptures. Adonai and Kyrios, like Lord is used for God but not exclusively. There are around 700 persons in the UK who are entitled to be addressed by Lord so and so, including Barons and Dukes who would be addressed as such because it's a higher title.

Jesus was adressed "Rabbi" when he was on earth.

I have studied the Gospel accounts in detail and I have read the entire Bible.
 
RJM said:
Light is both a particle and a wave. Time and space form a dimensional matrix that causes space curvature and represents gravity, which can collapse into infinity.

Just because it seems like a logical contradiction to you ... with human words and human limitations

Christ is Emmanuel -- God with us

Reality is strange and illogical and counter intuitive. God isn't required to conform to whatever limitations man decides
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Is God not with you?
Jesus was given the name God Saves. Who saves?
God doesn't conform anyway. His Word and His Spirit is. The righteous prophets spread out what they received from it, that we may conform us to His rules and His Kingdom.
 
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