Is that your artwork?
Do serve God...or a 'Trinity'?
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
Very talented, imo
Well, I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit .. but I am not a trinitarian.
I do not believe that God is of three parts.
Jesus is Jesus, and God is God.
I'm sure that Arius would not have agreed with you.
This business about "substance" is a mere deflection.
Jesus is Jesus, and God is God.
..you must have missed the question mark..
Nor do we Trinitarians.
OK if you think that, but it's there to clarify, not deflect.
Sorry ... just clarifying Arius wasn't necessarily a non-Trinitarian (although prior to the doctrine), you seem to assume he was?
Non-Trinitarian Christians tend to be monotheists.
It's Arianism that tends to polytheism, although the later semi-Arians tried to work round that.
muhammad_isa
Do you HONSETLY believe Muhammed split the Moon in half??????
..as I have mentioned countless times, you wish to focus on what Arius believed in detail, and imply
that those on his side were "carbon-copies" of him.
The main thing, as I see it, is that he did not believe that Jesus and God were one and the same.
Naturally, you wish to "pull him apart" in order to justify your creed .. the 3 in one business
Yes .. and you insist that those that took his side [deemed Arians, by trinitarians], no longer believed in One God,
as they considered Jesus to be God too.
The way you put it, these people were buffoons.
..so Roman history, as we are led to believe, claims!
(..it's difficult to know whether you are mad, even if you are not mad..)
I am not an honset person..
Split the mooon you say?
It looks the same as yesterday, to me
And as I have countless times responded, you keep making generalised statements that tend to inaccuracy...as I have mentioned countless times, you wish to focus on what Arius believed in detail, and imply that those on his side were "carbon-copies" of him.
'Arianism' became a term applied to a range of related heresies. Arius' particular doctrine died with him, later versions are called 'semiArian' because they sought to moderate his initial teaching and make it more acceptable to orthodoxy.
There's a good resource here, of documents relation to the dispute and subsequent developments,
That's how you see it, but Arius saw it differently.
As you dismiss the evidence as prejudiced an unreliable (a dubious claim in itself), I don't know what evidence for making that claim you have?
Nope.
You can't even get me right, let alone Arius et al.
How, exactly, do you think he saw it?
You say that Arians "tend towards polytheism" ..
..so did Arius see God and Jesus as being equivalent .. or did he see Jesus as being "a lesser god"?
Do you think that it is because you have a very strong belief that Son and Father are equal manifestations,
that you interpret what Arius believed as polytheistic?
It's quite simple to me..
One can believe that Jesus is Divine, but not God the Father, and be a strict monotheist.
It all depends on one's interpretation of the word "Divine"
I've answered at length ... sheesh ... I'm not going there again! Links above, too.
A lesser God. A created God.
No, because I follow his argument, and he was following Platonism ... so there is a defence there, but my point is, those not versed in Platonic philosophy would have eventually accused him of polytheism – as you would had he become 'orthodox' ...
Yep. Again, I follow what Arius said, not what anyone else might assume.It's quite simple to me..
One can believe that Jesus is Divine, but not God the Father, and be a strict monotheist.
It all depends on one's interpretation of the word "Divine"
Are you sure that you are not being duped?
How do you know precisely what he said?
I imagine that you are selective in quoting what he said ..
We have had centuries of enforcing a trinitarian creed, and denouncing "what Arius said".
It's all too convenient .. I'm sure he said a lot of things .. but I doubt he was a fool.
Platonism? ..and there's me thinking we were discussing Christianity,
and the serious rift that occurred .. outlawing Christians who dared to question those in authority.
Did Arius say that he believed in two gods? No, of course not !
TheLightWithin
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Platonism was definitely an influence on early Christian thinkers
TheLightWithin
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Sure, comments could always be clearer.
Cool meme. Probably blasphemous to somebody.
Were you getting at something?
Pretty saure.
We know from letters and documents of the era, available at the link above.
Also, this might strike you as odd, but when his opponents challenged his doctrine, they were pretty faithful to it, as they saw no pont in straw man arguments – they were better than that.
That 'there was a time when he was not' is mentioned in so many places, by critics and followers, it's pretty indisputable.
Might I ask where you get your info on Arius from?
That's silly – why would I bother. I supplied references for anyone to check ... HAVR YOU?
I rather think that having dismissed the evidence, and philosophy generally, it's you who's being 'selective', and assuming everyone else is.
OK. And we have scholars who's prime concern is for the evidence rather than polemics.We have had centuries of enforcing a trinitarian creed, and denouncing "what Arius said".
Never said he was, said quite the opposite.
As @TheLightWithin said, Platonism was the language of philosophy, in service to theology.
Your Muslim scholars were influenced by Plato and Aristotle too ... in fact Muslim scholars received Greek philosophical texts (in Arabic) from Nestorian Christians) and kept the torch of enlightened learning alive, to bring Greek philosophy back into Western Europe after access had largely been lost to a number of primary works.
Thomas Aquinas was an admirer of Ibn Sina, or Avicenna as he's known in the west, a pre-eminent philosopher and physician of the Muslim world, who flourished in what is called the 'Islamic Golden Age' (8th-13th centuries)
Never said he did. Said his doctrine would have eventually be accused of such, by people like yourself.
Tell me – What did he say about Jesus then? That Jesus was not God? And please supply evidence ...
TheLightWithin
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True enough, none of those terms from later theology is spelled out in the Bible