Do serve God...or a 'Trinity'?
- Thread starter theMadJW
- Start date
Well .. we don't ALL reject what Jesus is reported to have said
..but I would agree, that Jesus is not reported to have spoken about this "all important" trinity in the NT.
Shias and Sufis (unlike the Salafis and Zahiri), as well as some other Muslim philosophers believe the meaning of the Quran is not restricted to the literal aspect. For them, it is an essential idea that the Quran also has inward aspects. Henry Corbin narrates a hadith that goes back to Muhammad:
"The Quran possesses an external appearance and a hidden depth, an exoteric meaning and an esoteric meaning. This esoteric meaning in turn conceals an esoteric meaning (this depth possesses a depth, after the image of the celestial Spheres, which are enclosed within each other). So it goes on for seven esoteric meanings (seven depths of hidden depth). (Corbin, Henry, History of Islamic Philosophy. Trans Philip Sherrard, Kegan Paul International in association with Islamic Publications for The Institute of Ismaili Studies. ISBN 978-0-7103-0416-2.)
Hebrew and Christian commentaries say the same – Jews and Christians share a similar 'Fourfold Sense of Scripture' – the literal, and the spiritual senses. The spiritual senses do not invalidate or abrogate the literal, nor is the believer required to understand the deeper meanings, following the literal word suffices for salvation.
Where fundamentalism or literalism comes into play is the insistence that there is only one, literal meaning, and that is the way they interpret the text. Scripture counters this with the many statements about the 'eye of the heart' and the intransigence of the people.
Thus when Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life' (John 14:6), "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), "Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works."
People rationalise these texts – and Jesus words on the Holy Spirit – to mean what they perceive it to mean, and insist that their entirely subjective interpretation is the only possible meaning.
"The Quran possesses an external appearance and a hidden depth, an exoteric meaning and an esoteric meaning. This esoteric meaning in turn conceals an esoteric meaning (this depth possesses a depth, after the image of the celestial Spheres, which are enclosed within each other). So it goes on for seven esoteric meanings (seven depths of hidden depth). (Corbin, Henry, History of Islamic Philosophy. Trans Philip Sherrard, Kegan Paul International in association with Islamic Publications for The Institute of Ismaili Studies. ISBN 978-0-7103-0416-2.)
Hebrew and Christian commentaries say the same – Jews and Christians share a similar 'Fourfold Sense of Scripture' – the literal, and the spiritual senses. The spiritual senses do not invalidate or abrogate the literal, nor is the believer required to understand the deeper meanings, following the literal word suffices for salvation.
Where fundamentalism or literalism comes into play is the insistence that there is only one, literal meaning, and that is the way they interpret the text. Scripture counters this with the many statements about the 'eye of the heart' and the intransigence of the people.
Thus when Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life' (John 14:6), "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), "Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works."
People rationalise these texts – and Jesus words on the Holy Spirit – to mean what they perceive it to mean, and insist that their entirely subjective interpretation is the only possible meaning.
I agree in the sense that I see creation as 'Trinity shaped' because the Trinity underpins creation ... BUT ... the atom is a bad analogy of the Trinity because atoms are composites, God isn't. God isn't made of atoms.
No, that's not what the Bible teaches, is it?
The Bible teaches that matter was brought forth from nothing. It was called forth from nothing by the Word (Logos), it is not the Word (Logos).
The Incarnation is the union of the Divine and human nature ... the flesh and blood of Christ is not made of divine substance. The human body of Christ is flesh and blood, etc., atoms, etc ... neither the Soul nor the Spirit is not made of atoms.
OK
OK.
But that does not therefore mean that everything is made of what the Word is. The Word is not Atoms and Particles.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
As much as this is incredibly offensive.. I appreciate the amount of memes Jehovah's witnesses have created to blast Christian doctrine.
It SHOULD be offensive to you- since that is what you teach.
I am the only one who does it
@theMadJW is an artist who designs the memes himself
Why does what someone else believes upset you so much that you intentionally go out to cause offence?
To answer the 2nd question, they do.
It's FUN to me- for I consider the points am am highly amused!
The fact their offended shows two things- they're emotionally disturbed, and my 'memes' expose how ridiculous their beliefs are.
Take that last graphic- "WE am".
That IS what they're saying in unspoken words- and it's a common phrase that everyone used- even Judas!
Or could you just be trolling? We try to be a reasonably civilized group here.
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There's the royal 'we'
Allah often refers to Himself as 'we'
The point is some people are so hung up on the words they lose the point there is no actual Father, no actual Son -- they are human words to try to explain the mysterious and unknowable interweaving between spirit and matter
I know some folks like everything simple, but the universe isn't always like that, imo
Whatever -- further trolling will result in an official site warning
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This isn't facebook
moralorel
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What makes this site interesting is that the admins here do a great job of removing trolls. Trolls scare off intelligent discussion. So I'm thankful of our admins.
TheLightWithin
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To be fair, everything / everyone (in the physical plane)-- is made out of atoms
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TheLightWithin
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THIS is really interestingJohn 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Jesus existed, and still exists, as the Word of God before anything was made. Again, the Word (One) manifests our 3D physical reality (Godhead/Atom/Trinity)...
TheLightWithin
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I wish that you, or some JW, were trying to have serious doctrinal debates/discussions/conferences with the classical Christians (Trinitarians) in order to gain a deeper understanding... I wish you weren't always trying to vex them. What good can come of that? I think sometimes at least some get vexed enogh by me as I ask questions that are probing or seem picky or something... but I'm not aiming to vex them, my agenda is about increasing my own understanding about ideas that don't altogether make sense to me. But it seems you are trying to hammer people.
According to your ideas (sorry, buddy, couldn't help it.
)