The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

[RJM]

Have you considered why the Bible offers passages such as these.

Ezekiel 43:1-7 "Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east: and, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places."

Ezekiel 43:4 "The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east"

John 11:40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

So, so many passages.

Regards Tony

And because Baha'u'llah took to himself the title 'Glory of God' it means these passages automatically apply to him?

It's delusional, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

And because Baha'u'llah took to himself the title 'Glory of God' it means these passages automatically apply to him?

It's delusional, imo

The Bab means Gate.

It was not automatic, the Message, the persecution, the banishment, the exile and imprisonment support all the given the prophecy.

ISAIAH 35:2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing. The glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon; they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

The German Templers who expected the return of Christ on Mt Carmel, moved to Haifa while Baha'u'llah was in Akka. Baha'u'llah visited them, yet they still did not recognise the One they came to embrace.

Some of those houses still exist at the foot of Mt Carmel, at the base of the "Mountain of the Lord", where all nations flow up that mountain.

Many, many, many Prophecies.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

The Bab means Gate.

It was not automatic, the Message, the persecution, the banishment, the exile and imprisonment support all the given the prophecy.

ISAIAH 35:2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing. The glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon; they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

The German Templers who expected the return of Christ on Mt Carmel, moved to Haifa while Baha'u'llah was in Akka. Baha'u'llah visited them, yet they still did not recognise the One they came to embrace.

Some of those houses still exist at the foot of Mt Carmel, at the base of the "Mountain of the Lord", where all nations flow up that mountain.

Many, many, many Prophecies.

Regards Tony

So because Baha'u'llah decided to choose Mt Carmel as the world headquarters for the Baha'i faith therefore it means the Isiaah prophecy is about Baha'u'llah? Yup, that makes him Christ, for sure ...

Sorry

 

[RJM]

It was not automatic, the Message, the persecution, the banishment, the exile and imprisonment support all the given the prophecy.

But this isn't at all the prophecy. The prophecy for the return of the Christ is coming in glory surrounded by the hosts of heaven, to bring final judgement at the end of days and the resurrection of the dead -- not as the persecuted Jesus, because Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was once and forever.

I know: the Baha'i say, Well, all this is symbolic and it is happening the invisible realm, and so not yet apparent, etc.

It's smoke and mirrors, imo

EDIT: I stand correction but as far as I know Baha'u'llah was imprisoned because he was thought to be part of a Babi plot to assassinate the Shah, and was finally released when the Shah became convinced he was not in fact involved, though jealousy and other factors may have contributed?

(edited)

 

[Niblo]

But this isn't at all the prophecy. The prophecy for the return of the Christ is coming in glory surrounded by the hosts of heaven, to bring final judgement at the end of days and the resurrection of the dead -- not as the persecuted Jesus, because Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was once and forever.

I know: the Baha'i say, Well, all this is symbolic and it is happening the invisible realm, and so not yet apparent, etc.

It's smoke and mirrors, imo

EDIT: I stand correction but as far as I know Baha'u'llah was imprisoned because he was thought to be part of a Babi plot to assassinate the Shah, and was finally released when the Shah became convinced he was not in fact involved, though jealousy and other factors may have contributed?

(edited)

From a BBC website:

Two years after the Báb's death, Bahá'u'lláh was imprisoned in Tihran, accused of taking part in the attempted assassination of the Shah of Persia.

He was put in stocks and, for three days, given neither food nor water.

Other Bábis were imprisoned with him and as they sat in chains, Bahá'u'lláh taught them to chant prayers which were heard by the Shah.

The reasons for Bahá'u'lláh's arrest were not straightforward and included:

• his stature and influence as the leading member of the Bábi community
• the jealousy of the Grand Vizier
• the hatred of the Shah's mother, who levelled unjust accusations at Bahá'u'lláh

Bahá'u'lláh's own actions also contributed to his arrest:

• he ignored advice to keep himself hidden
• he went of his own volition to army headquarters to be arrested

 

[RJM]

I've no doubt that Baha'u'llah was an engaging and charismatic (and brave) person who brought a new approach and 'breath of fresh air' to religion at a time of disillusion with the political and material authority of Christianity and Islam and with the wealth and pomp of the hated Shah and, by association, of the Pope.

But after a while, like many another new messiah figure, he started to believe that he really was Jesus. Then began the laboured attempts continued by family and later followers to try to make the Bible support the claim, etc

Perhaps
IMO

 

[Modesty]

But after a while, like many another new messiah figure, he started to believe that he really was Jesus.

I think you noted this elsewhere, but it gets frustrating how so many religions after Christianity just try to 'recycle' Jesus into their theology. I was reading the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Eckankar scripture) recently and I hadn't thought Eckankar was too influenced by Christianity but then lines like this show up: "He is the 'WORD made flesh,' as spoken of by John the Apostle..." (pg. 16). Worst thing is, I think that's supposed to apply to the founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell lol.

 

[RJM]

I think you noted this elsewhere, but it gets frustrating how so many religions after Christianity just try to 'recycle' Jesus into their theology. I was reading the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Eckankar scripture) recently and I hadn't thought Eckankar was too influenced by Christianity but then lines like this show up: "He is the 'WORD made flesh,' as spoken of by John the Apostle..." (pg. 16). Worst thing is, I think that's supposed to apply to the founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell lol.

Bingo, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I think you noted this elsewhere, but it gets frustrating how so many religions after Christianity just try to 'recycle' Jesus into their theology. I was reading the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Eckankar scripture) recently and I hadn't thought Eckankar was too influenced by Christianity but then lines like this show up: "He is the 'WORD made flesh,' as spoken of by John the Apostle..." (pg. 16). Worst thing is, I think that's supposed to apply to the founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell lol.

What about True prophets?

Maybe the frustrating thing is that people stop looking for True Prophets. Maybe the Bible does warns us of this.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But after a while, like many another new messiah figure, he started to believe that he really was Jesus. Then began the laboured attempts continued by family and later followers to try to make the Bible support the claim, etc

Perhaps
IMO

An opinion not based in any way shape or form to the Message given by Baha'u'llah.

Another amazing thing as to how the Mystery of God’s Will Unfolds in this Matrix, is that God allows all this innuendo as a way of spreading the given Message.

Really, that is all you have offered in return, a whole lot of innuendo.

What is yet to be addressed is the enormous amount of Prophecy for the end of ages that has the "Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord" coming to Israel via a "Gate" from the East and the name of the Lord becoming One and establishing the Law to send forth from Zion, from the mountain unto all nations.

God's Plan is bigger than our feeble minds.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

What about True prophets?

Maybe the frustrating thing is that people stop looking for True Prophets. Maybe the Bible does warns us of this.

Regards Tony

But not reincarnations of the Christ, Tony?

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Matthew 24:26-28

 

[RJM]

You Baha'i guys need to lose Jesus as a reference and start to punt Baha'u'llah by his own light, and see how it all flies without Jesus, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But not reincarnations of the Christ, Tony?

Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Matthew 24:26-28

With the warnings are also the promisses, as the true Christ is also promissed.

Notice the coming of the Son of Man is from East to West.

The Message of the Bab was brought to the West as early as the 1850's

Early Mention of Bábís in Western Newspapers, Summer 1850

Very brief newspaper mentions about the rise of the Bábí movement: Tioga Eagle (Wellsborough, Pennsylvania) 1850-08-21; Church and State Gazette ...

bahai-library.com

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

You Baha'i guys need to lose Jesus as a reference and start to punt Baha'u'llah by his own light, and see how it all flies without Jesus, imo

That is not possible RJM, they are One in Spirit. Their purpose is One and the same.

The Light given by Baha'u'llah is inclusive of Jesus the Christ, the Son becomes the Father.

That is a material metaphor, not literal.

It would be the same as disconnecting Jesus from the Torah.

Regards Tony

 

[Faithfulservant]

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables

What is the truth?

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

This is why true believers cannot accept fables.

 

[RJM]

That is not possible RJM,

Obviously.

The Qur'an would get along without Isa. He's not really essential to the message of Islam. It wouldn't change much without him. But you Baha'i guys have made yourself totally dependent and derived upon Jesus and the life of the Christ, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Obviously.

The Qur'an would get along without Isa. He's not really essential to the message of Islam. It wouldn't change much without him. But you Baha'i guys have made yourself totally dependent and derived upon Jesus and the life of the Christ, imo

That is obviously not correct RJM.

It would be the same as dropping the Torah from Christianity.

Likewise Christianity and Torah is written into the Quran.

Still the Baha'i Faith runs independently from Christianity and Islam, as does Christianity from Jewish and Islam from Christianity.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

What about True prophets?

Maybe the frustrating thing is that people stop looking for True Prophets. Maybe the Bible does warns us of this.

Regards Tony

Who defines a true vs. untrue prophet? Some people think Twitchell was a true prophet. I have no problem with you thinking Baha'u'llah is a prophet or that Baha'i is the right religion but why do you claim that people have stopped looking for true prophets? If someone has decided to become a Christian or a Muslim, has devoted their life to it, why do they NEED to change that just because another person claims to now have a new, more correct faith? Do they have to engage with everyone who makes that claim? Because a lot of people claim to be prophets of new religions. You criticize other people for not accepting the Baha'i religion, but would you change your religion if a new prophet popped up and told you to? Probably not, I'm guessing, because you think Baha'u'llah is right, and they're wrong. Kind of how Christians feel about Jesus and Muslims about Mohammed...

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

You criticize other people for not accepting the Baha'i religion, but would you change your religion if a new prophet popped up and told you to?

Please quote where I criticised anybody, I have always offered everyone is free to choose. I will addressed statements and opinions made, that is what is being examined, not the person.

I do quote scriptures that contain God given challenges, applicable to every human, inclusive of me.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

Please quote where I criticised anybody, I have always offered everyone is free to choose. I will addressed statements and opinions made, that is what is being examined, not the person.

I do quote scriptures that contain God given challenges, applicable to every human, inclusive of me.

Regards Tony

How is it not critical to suggest that Catholic monks' refusal to accept Baha'u'llah's authority to instruct them contributed to the sex abuse crisis?