The Mystery of God’s Will Unfolding in this Matrix

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Or maybe never?

Are they required to supply reasons? Am I allowed to know why I have been cancelled?

God is Justice and Mercy, God tests us, as God so chooses.

Sen would have had many discussions with many individuals and been given much advice. That is all fed back to the decision the Universal House of Justice has made.

I would think Sen would have correspondence in regards to the decision. I have a letter from the Universal House of Justice informing me I should submit to a National Spiritual Assemblies decision on a specific matter. I chose to do that.

The avenue to appeal is always open. Sanctions are reversible.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

The key here is found in submission. One side of this story will always be confidential, between Sen and the Universal House of Justice.

Surely he deserves an explicit reason? When you're excommunicated they give you a clear reason, with a clear way to remedy it.

The Writings offer even if we are right, and the majority have made an incorrect decision (which we are assured the Universal House of Justice is guarded against,

Does this mean the UHJ is considered infallible?

 

[Modesty]

I would think Sen would have correspondence in regards to the decision. I have a letter from the Universal House of Justice informing me I should submit to a National Spiritual Assemblies decision on a specific matter. I chose to do that.

He has attempted to rejoin many times, willing to do what he has to do to remedy the issue, and has been denied repeatedly. He has apparently asked for a reason many times, with no explicit answer. The page I linked from his blog has links to other pages wherein he includes such correspondences.

 

[JustGeorge]

Each of us is the cleaning crew, each of us get to react to God's Message.

We and You are the only person that can change ourselves/yourself. Jesus said the level of change required was for a person to pick up the cross and follow him.

Many want the cross carried for them, just like the person waiting for someone else to clean their room.

Christianity, Islam and many Faiths now sit waiting for someone to clean the room, the world wants for someone to clean the room. Many Baha'is sit and wait for someone to clean the room.

Much can be offered about the change needed, the key to me, founded in the Word of God from all the Holy Books, is the realisation of the Oneness of Humanity, born out of the Oneness of God.

Regards Tony

I got up and cleaned the room myself, all by my oneness.

Would have liked help, but... it is what it is.

I see people in all faiths waiting for someone else to clean the room, so to speak. But, I see people in all faiths getting up to clean it, too. Some in a group, some alone, as their circumstances dictate.

Things keep moving along. Getting messier, getting cleaned. On and on it goes...

I'm not waiting for anything.

 

[RJM]

The fact there is a blog on this, indicates to me that the submission was not manifested.

Right. Monks are required to submit to the Abbot, no question and no argument. -- the vow of obedience.

So it's how the Baha'i organization operates? It's this guy's own problem for talking our of turn, without permission?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Effectively instructing the Pope to accept the authority of Muhammad and the Qur'an over Christians? And ordering him to acknowledge Baha'u'llah as new Christ the Father?

Yeah -- Baha'u'llah knew THAT wasn't going to happen. So why write it?

It's a rabbit hole

Accepting that there is One God and that Muhammad was a Messenger and that Baha'u'llah is the one promised, yes it would have required that.

Not over Christ, but a fulfillment of Christ.

A question that one must ask of God, as It was God's Message to humanity.

I see it is the Mystery of God's Will unfolding in this Matrix.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Right. Monks are required to submit to the Abbot, no question and no argument. -- the vow of obedience.

So it's how the Baha'i organization operates? It's this guy's own problem for talking our of turn, without permission?

Stay in step and keep your mouth shut boys -- if you know what's good for you ...

No it does not work that way.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Right. Monks are required to submit to the Abbot, no question and no argument. -- the vow of obedience.

This is an institution built by men, with very little Biblical support. The purpose is noble.

Muhammad taught true submission.

Submission in the Baha'i Faith is written into scripture, it is founded in the written Covernant from God, No guessing required, the details are clear and precise.

Now East meets West and all have ro learn what is true submission unto God's Councels.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Surely he deserves an explicit reason? When you're excommunicated they give you a clear reason, with a clear way to remedy it.


Does this mean the UHJ is considered infallible?

Yes the Universal House of Justice is considered in that light.

I am not able to add to what I offered as we will never know what the Universal House of Justice has offered to Sen. There are things that are shared and there arr things that should not be shared. That is confidentiality 101. I work in Local Government and understand this concept is very important.

It is none of my business, nor anyone else's, yet this will not stop those after great rumours.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

Accepting that there is One God and that Muhammad was a Messenger and that Baha'u'llah is the one promised, yes it would have required that.

Not over Christ, but a fulfillment of Christ.

A question that one must ask of God, as It was God's Message to humanity.

YOU think it was God's message, but the Pope did not. Clearly, you think he should have converted to Baha'i but maybe he didn't want to? Maybe other people are just as convinced of their religion as you are of yours? The vibe behind your posts seems to be that everyone should be Baha'i but that really makes having interfaith dialogue hard.

 

[Modesty]

Yes the Universal House of Justice is considered in that light.

I am not able to add to what I offered as we will never know what the Universal House of Justice has offered to Sen. There are things that are shared and there arr things that should not be shared. That is confidentiality 101. I work in Local Government and understand this concept is very important.

It is none of my business, nor anyone else's, yet this will not stop those after great rumours.

Regards Tony

But Sen has shared what the UHJ has offered to him. I think it is our business, as Sen clearly wants people to know of the situation, having shared it publicly online. We need accountability from the religious hierarchies: confidentiality is important in protecting individuals, not institutions or governing bodies, religious or secular. Well, the individual in this instance is welcoming public comment, so we don't have to worry about that.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

He has attempted to rejoin many times, willing to do what he has to do to remedy the issue, and has been denied repeatedly. He has apparently asked for a reason many times, with no explicit answer. The page I linked from his blog has links to other pages wherein he includes such correspondences.

One side of the story.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

YOU think it was God's message, but the Pope did not. Clearly, you think he should have converted to Baha'i but maybe he didn't want to? Maybe other people are just as convinced of their religion as you are of yours? The vibe behind your posts seems to be that everyone should be Baha'i but that really makes having interfaith dialogue hard.

I just want the best for every living being.

We all have our choices and our choices are the complexity of life.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

But Sen has shared what the UHJ has offered to him. I think it is our business, as Sen clearly wants people to know of the situation, having shared it publicly online. We need accountability from the religious hierarchies: confidentiality is important in protecting individuals, not institutions or governing bodies, religious or secular. Well, the individual in this instance is welcoming public comment, so we don't have to worry about that.

Maybe that is part of the problem. My sense of Justice is that of what Baha'u'llah has asked of us. We are also asked to elect people that have strong moral values. That would indicate to me that the 9 people elected to the Universal House of Justice are wise and would have a great capacity for justice.

I can offer no more, everyone gets to see it as they wish too.

Regards Tony

 

[Modesty]

I just want the best for every living being.

I believe this, and I believe most missionaries are trying to do this too, that they're just trying to give the best truth to people, but you're making comments about the Pope, the head of the Catholic Church, and stating he was wrong not to accept Baha'i. How does that come across to Catholics?

Also, you've critiqued other religions for having dogma, and say that Baha'i have no orthodoxy...but the UHJ is infalliable? Baha'i like Sen need to show submission? And say things like "[t]he Writings offer even if we are right, and the majority have made an incorrect decision (which we are assured the Universal House of Justice is guarded against, local and national not so assured), we are told we must submit to the elected bodies, as only by that submission can the wrong become manifested"? If that isn't enforcing orthodoxy, I don't know what is. And the thing is, there's nothing wrong with having a religion that values orthodoxy or dogma, but why obscure that?

 

[JustGeorge]

.

Now East meets West and all have ro learn what is true submission unto God's Councels.

Where's the East in all this?

 

[RJM]

Accepting that there is One God and that Muhammad was a Messenger and that Baha'u'llah is the one promised, yes it would have required that.

Not over Christ, but a fulfillment of Christ.

A question that one must ask of God, as It was God's Message to humanity.

I see it is the Mystery of God's Will unfolding in this Matrix.

Regards Tony

This is an institution built by men, with very little Biblical support. The purpose is noble.

Muhammad taught true submission.

Submission in the Baha'i Faith is written into scripture, it is founded in the written Covernant from God, No guessing required, the details are clear and precise.

Now East meets West and all have ro learn what is true submission unto God's Councels.

Regards Tony

No Tony. It's just another deluded new self-declared Messiah and his gullible folliwers.

They all think they're Christ -- scores of them -- and their followers hang into their every word. That's fine for you guys, have your new starry-eyed Messiah -- but please don't blame the Pope and monks for not immediately dropping everything to follow down the rabbit hole.

It's completely detached from reality. And like all the rest, when confronted with failed prophecies and obvious inconsistencies it's the same oie' game of ducking and diving and moving the goalposts.

People have too much invested -- years of their lives in these charismatic new messiah figures and their failed prophecies -- like the JW string of failed end of the world predictions -- and the defence is to say: 'Well look, you know it actually did happen, but it happened in the invisible realm so we're not seeing it yet."

It's a hall of mirrors. Don't blame Christians for not falling over themselves to subscribe, that's all

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

No Tony. It's just another deluded new self-declared Messiah and his gullible folliwers.

They all think they're Christ -- scores of them -- and their gullible followers hang into their every word. That's fine for you guys, have your new Christ -- but please don't blame the Pope for not immediately dropping everything to follow down the rabbit hole.

It's completely detached from reality. And like all the rest, when confronted with failed prophecies and obvious inconsistencies it's the same oie' game of ducking and diving and moving the goalposts.

People have too much invested -- years of their lives in these self-declared new messiah figures and their failed prophecies -- like the JW string of failed end of the world predictions -- and the defence is to say 'Well look, you know it actually did happen, but it happened in the invisible realm so we're not seeing it yet."

It's a hall of mirrors. Don't blame Christians for not falling over themselves to subscribe

My observation is that you have not really considered all the prophecy the Bible offers, let alone the Quran or the Babi or Baha'i Writings with an independent search.

I see the issue for many is the rejection without investigation.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

My observation is that you have not really considered all the prophecy the Bible offers, let alone the Quran or the Babi or Baha'i Writings with an independent search.

I see the issue for many is the rejection without investigation.

Regards Tony

That's what were doing in these threads -- asking questions and investigating, imo

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

That's what were doing in these threads -- asking questions and investigating, imo

Have you considered why the Bible offers passages such as these.

Ezekiel 43:1-7 "Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east: and, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me. And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places."

Ezekiel 43:4 "The glory of the LORD entered the temple through the gate facing east"

John 11:40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

So, so many passages.

Regards Tony