The consequences of our neglect.
- Thread starter Tony Bristow-Stagg
- Start date
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I don't think we are reading the same bible. Adam sinned and sin entered into a perfect creation Cain killed Abel Abraham was a liar Moses was a murderer and wasn't even able to enter the promised land because he disobeyed God. David was an adulterer and a murderer Noah was a drunk Jacob connived and stole his brothers birthright. The list goes on. Only Jesus is perfect because He is God as stated in Christian scripture God uses imperfect men for His Glory. We know Muhammad wasn't perfect and I can 100% guarantee that Baha'lu'llah wasn't perfect.
if you think murderers liars and adulterers are perfect in some sort of relativity then dang.. we must all be messengers.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
It's the Word of God, are you saying that Word is not perfect guidance for all humanity?
Regards Tony
Perhaps you should read it then (the NT) instead of quoting out of context the bits your leaders tell you to?
If the scriptures of other faiths are (still) pefect guidance for all humanity, why do they require upgrading to the (more pefecr) words of Baha'u'llah for the next 800 years?
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
If there was a God to give us love, we would have found unity by now. This proves non-existence of any God.
Yeah, that is my way of thinking too.
That again is an imperfection. Seeing imperfection where there is perfection.
And Job. You did not mention Job.
Not for all people, not for Hindus, not for Buddhists, not for Shinto, not for Daoists, not for Confusianists, not for Muslims, since Allah has sent his last word to Mohammad. It is so for Christians and for a minute number of people, who call themselves Bahais. And their interpretation is very different from that of Christians. For them., Jesus is not the Son of God.
Who in this 21st Century requires the advice of an uneducated 19th Century Shia Iranian? But to claim himself as a manifestation of Allah is his right, even if he does not provide any evidence for his Allah and him being sent by that entity.
Actually Shias have a habit to do this. At the time of Iranian revolution, there were 1200 people in jails who claimed to be prophets/messengers/mahdis. They believe in an hidden imam (Ghayaba). So, every one claims that he is the 'Ghayaba'.
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It would if you equate God and creation ... but creation is not God ...
Well you're quite wrong, on metaphysical grounds.
If creation is perfect, then we are perfect, then there is no need of 'messengers', there is no message, other than 'as you are'.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Huh? That is not what I said. Nice deflection Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Maybe we need more clarification, as it is not that imperfection is not apparent and imperfecrion is not a part of creation, in that it needs an Educator. The point is, that is the perfection of creation, it was designed that way. Imperfection is an essential aspect of this creation, it is not a flaw. It is a world of opposites, the animating forces and the lack of those animating forces.
The issue is, I approach this subject with many other frames of references, one being the Seven Valleys by Baha'u'llah,
".....No defect canst thou see in the creation of the God of mercy. Repeat the gaze: Seest thou a single flaw?”28 He beholdeth justice in injustice, and in justice, grace. In ignorance he findeth many a knowledge hidden, and in knowledge a myriad wisdoms manifest. He breaketh the cage of the body and the hold of the passions, and communeth with the denizens of the immortal realm. He scaleth the ladders of inner truth and hasteneth to the heaven of inner meanings. He rideth in the ark of “We will surely show them Our signs in the world and within themselves”, and saileth upon the sea of “until it become plain to them that it is the truth”.29 And if he meeteth with injustice he shall have patience, and if he cometh upon wrath he shall manifest love..."
I put in bold the frame of reference I am putting forward.
Abdu'l-Baha has explained the Imperfection of Creation as all of creation is in need of an Educator.
"....Nature is the material world. When we look upon it, we see that it is dark and imperfect.....If man himself is left in his natural state, he will become lower than the animal and continue to grow more ignorant and imperfect.....It is evident, therefore, that the world of nature is incomplete, imperfect until awakened and illumined by the light and stimulus of education........ God has sent forth the Prophets for the purpose of quickening the soul of man into higher and divine recognitions. He has revealed the heavenly Books for this great purpose..."
There is a lot written on this Thomas, I think the above covers my frame of reference.
Creation is perfect in design and purpose, creation after all is of God.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
It was asking about the omission. You said only Jesus is Perfect, I read the Bible as the Word of God, I am sure it is the same Bible you read, and I see that Word as the Word of God, in its pure form, it is perfect guidance.
That same Word can be seen in a different light, all of us that are not perfect will have different opinions.
I am sure we can agree Jesus Christ and The Word Jesus Gave us, is Perfection.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
In what is already perfect, what is the need for an educator?
Sure, the 19th Century Iranian can choose to disregard any imperfection that he wants.
Using Chaucer's English does not help.
But it's not proper English usage. Chaucer is pithy and powerful. So are Shakespeare and the King James Bible. The Baha'i writings are windy and flowery and need billowing oceans of words to say what Chaucer or the King James Bible could say in just a few.
Changing 'say' to 'sayeth' and theeing and thouing doesn't make it into King James English. It's a chore to try to wade through even a few pages of it, let alone hundreds of pages.
It's just not good writing. It's really inferior writing. A publishing agent would throw it back and require it edited and reduced to about a fiftieth of the length, imo
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
One need to understand why it was used in the format it was.
Why Do the English Translations of the Baha’i Writings Use Elevated Language?
"....In their Writings, the Bab, Baha’u’llah, and Abdu’l-Baha weren’t employing the everyday language of Persia—they used a formal, poetic style. Using a similarly elevated style for translations is therefore true to the originals. With a style evoking that of the King James Bible—which, though produced over four hundred years ago, has stood the test of time—Shoghi Effendi set the standard for English translations of the Baha’i Writings..."
Another reason is that language changes and one would be having to constantly issue new translations....."So, to stay accessible, the Writings would need to be re-translated into the latest version(s) of English frequently and would need to vary from region to region. That’s not a feasible approach; we need translations that will endure across the centuries and across borders...."
It could be that it is our own educational standards that need ro be raised, we should not expect the Word of God to be degraded by translations.
Regards Tony
Elevated language, lol
It just means Effendi made a bad decision, if he wanted people to read it, imo
Awake! for Morning in the Bowl of Night
Has Flung the Stone that puts the Stars to Flight
And Lo! the Hunter of the East has caught
The Sultan's Turret in a Noose of Light
-- Omar Khayam
That's great Persian writing, imo. And great translation too, by Edward Fitzgerald -- in lasting English
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Can you read Persian?
From what I found, this is exactly what you do not want to happen to any translations of God's Word.
General net comment on the translation.
"FitzGerald’s translation is interesting in that it isn’t a literal translation—rather, FitzGerald took significant artistic license in his interpretation. Thus it’s tough to say if we should call this a translation of the Rubáiyát, or poems by FitzGerald based on or inspired by Khayyám’s quatrains..."
Regards Tony
Fair enough. If there's a dispute about the actual translation.* But it's good, readable English. The 'elevation' comes from the poem itself, not by trying to mimic KJ English.
Whatever, many people have a problem with reading the Baha'i writings in their present English translation. It's just badly done. They should admit their mistake and do it properly, imo
Cheers
(* There are many others including by Paramahansa Yogananda and into many other languages)
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
That is like putting an unnecessary software on your computer which is not required at all. That is why I do not use Linux Mint. It has many things that I have no use of. Void Linux is OK for me, or perhaps Debian and Mx. I get only what is required. This will be a design fault.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Assume you're right -- how do you know this? Do you have evidence?
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