I converted to Jehovah's Witnesses

[Thomas]

I think the Bible implies a 'day' is not any measure of time ...

 

[walter]

I think the Bible implies a 'day' is not any measure of time ...

" in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” --Genesis 2:18

 

[Thomas]

Yep ... that too.

 

[Adam’s Cowboy]

How long do JW consuder it to be? A thousand years? Ten thousand years?

An indeterminate amount of time. Just like when I say “back in my Grandfather’s day.”

Best wishes.

 

[moralorel]

What Is the Resurrection?​

The Bible’s answer
In the Bible, the word translated as “resurrection” comes from the Greek a·naʹsta·sis, which means “raising up” or “standing up again.” A person who is resurrected is raised up from death and restored to life as the person he was before.—1 Corinthians 15:12, 13.

Although the word “resurrection” is not in the Hebrew Scriptures, often called the Old Testament, the teaching appears there. Through the prophet Hosea, for example, God promised: “From the power of the Grave I will redeem them; from death I will recover them.”—Hosea 13:14; Job 14:13-15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2, 13.

if you want more information on earthly resurrection or heavenly resurrection see the link below..

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-the-resurrection/

So one resurrection is to heaven, the other is a physical resurrection.

 

[moralorel]

Where?

Revelation 7:1-4. They are 12,000 people from each tribe of Israel who are spared from the destruction on Earth. 12 tribes times 12,000 people equals 144,000. Although the tribe of Daniel is excluded for some reason. And the tribe of Joseph is separated with his 2 sons, meaning the tribe of Joseph has 24,000 who are spared.

 

[walter]

So one resurrection is to heaven, the other is a physical resurrection.

Yes, the Bible explains about a resurrection to Heaven as well as to the Earth. If you would take a look please, at the scriptures on the page and then the scriptures on the link page, and after reading all the scriptures it really sheds some light on the subject.

 

[moralorel]

Yes, the Bible explains about a resurrection to Heaven as well as to the Earth. If you would take a look please, at the scriptures on the page and then the scriptures on the link page, and after reading all the scriptures it really sheds some light on the subject.

I have never found a scripture that said we go to heaven when we die. It is kind of odd that we would go to heaven when God is headed to Jerusalem.

 

[Adam’s Cowboy]

" in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” --Genesis 2:18

Yes. And Adam died over 900 years later, didn’t he?

Some might say, “Well, that meant their spiritual death.” (I’ve heard that before.)

But wouldn’t that require at least some explanation on God’s part?
Of course. (Omission is a form of lying…and God cannot lie.)

Did God explain anything further? No.

So it stands to reason, that A&E understood what He meant. They understood what death was.

How?
Because they had seen the animals die.

That raises a whole bunch of other questions, like for one, what about the doctrines of torment?

Wouldn’t that have been important for A&E to know?

Why weren’t they told?
Maybe such teachings aren’t true?

Because if they are, then God our Creator is a liar by omission!

Anyone follow my reasoning?


But what did God tell Adam after his rebellion, at Genesis 3:19?

@walter knows this, don’t you, my brother?

 

[walter]

I have never found a scripture that said we go to heaven when we die. It is kind of odd that we would go to heaven when God is headed to Jerusalem.

If you want to take a look at those scriptures, if they don't answer your questions, I can find some specific scriptures that talk about going to heaven. But the New Testament explains it, that the ones of the heavenly hope or also called, the ones from the first resurrection, don't sleep in death necessarily a long time, after they die in the twinkling of an eye they are raised up.

 

[moralorel]

If you want to take a look at those scriptures, if they don't answer your questions, I can find some specific scriptures that talk about going to heaven. But the New Testament explains it, that the ones of the heavenly hope or also called, the ones from the first resurrection, don't sleep in death necessarily a long time, after they die in the twinkling of an eye they are raised up.

Feel free to provide verses that say we go to heaven when we die. I've never seen one. I read the Bible starting at age 5. I used to argue with ministers and priests about this matter. None could give me verses that said we go to heaven after we die.

 

[walter]

Feel free to provide verses that say we go to heaven when we die. I've never seen one. I read the Bible starting at age 5. I used to argue with ministers and priests about this matter. None could give me verses that said we go to heaven after we die.

I will post them tomorrow, thank you for your patience and kindness.

 

[moralorel]

Yes. And Adam died over 900 years later, didn’t he?

Some might say, “Well, that meant their spiritual death.” (I’ve heard that before.)

But wouldn’t that require at least some explanation on God’s part?
Of course. (Omission is a form of lying…and God cannot lie.)

Did God explain anything further? No.

So it stands to reason, that A&E understood what He meant. They understood what death was.

How?
Because they had seen the animals die.

That raises a whole bunch of other questions, like for one, what about the doctrines of torment?

Wouldn’t that have been important for A&E to know?

Why weren’t they told?
Maybe such teachings aren’t true?

Because if they are, then God our Creator is a liar by omission!

Anyone follow my reasoning?


But what did God tell Adam after his rebellion, at Genesis 3:19?

@walter knows this, don’t you, my brother?

The Hebrew literally states "Dying you shall die". So it very well could be just Adam and Eve losing their immortality and dying over time.

 

[Adam’s Cowboy]

Feel free to provide verses that say we go to heaven when we die. I've never seen one. I read the Bible starting at age 5. I used to argue with ministers and priests about this matter. None could give me verses that said we go to heaven after we die.

You bring up an interesting facet of discussion.
In Revelation 14:3,4, it speaks of the 144,000 as being “bought from” the Earth / among mankind. So just to reason on it, where would they be if they are “from” the Earth & mankind?

In Revelation 5:9,10, it mentions some who were “bought”, and their assignment as kings & priests with Jesus. Earlier in the chapter, it refers to Jesus as being next to God’s throne in Heaven.

 

[Adam’s Cowboy]

The Hebrew literally states "Dying you shall die". So it very well could be just Adam and Eve losing their immortality and dying over time.

Yes…. except they had the ability to live forever; that was what they lost.
Just like the ability the angels have: if they stay obedient, they will live forever. But they’re not immortal; just as the Bible says about Satan, he knows he “has a short period of time.”- Revelation 12:12.

I hope this makes some sense. I’m tired.

Have a good day.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Feel free to provide verses that say we go to heaven when we die..

There are plenty of verses that teach that it is only our physical bodies that die, and the soul lives on.
Believers should have hope in "going to heaven", and we ask G-d to have mercy upon us.

 

[wil]

And no one will stop me from pronouncing the name of Jesus even if I don't know the exact pronunciation that was used 2,000 years ago

Well we know for a FACT his name was NOT Jesus right? Isn't the closest we can come is Yeshua?

 

[walter]

Well we know for a FACT his name was NOT Jesus right? Isn't the closest we can come is Yeshua?

Yes I agree with you, it was probably pronounced differently for each language?

 

[walter]

There are plenty of verses that teach that it is only our physical bodies that die, and the soul lives on.
Believers should have hope in "going to heaven", and we ask G-d to have mercy upon us.

I feel like we have become friends on this chat forum, I don't feel comfortable finding scriptures to prove your personal beliefs incorrect. I would much rather you find scriptures that explain, our physical body dies, but It's automatic we live on in an immortal spiritual body in heaven, without the need of being raised up or resurrected from the dead.

Please explain, why the Bible even has words like resurrection to life, to be raised up from the dead, asleep in death, The soul that is sinning itself will die, humans and animals all have the one spirit or breath, in that vary day his thoughts perish, there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going. I don't mean your explanation, I mean scriptures alone. If that would be okay with you? Why would Jesus offer us everlasting life for those that believe in him, if we already had it, no matter where we were going?

Unless you really want me to look up the scriptures?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I feel like we have become friends on this chat forum..

I see no reason why we shouldn't be..

..I would much rather you find scriptures that explain, our physical body dies, but It's automatic we live on in an immortal spiritual body in heaven, without the need of being raised up or resurrected from the dead..

An 'immortal spiritual body in heaven' .. not exactly .. more like we will be resurrected once more ..
.. every single one of us .. to a new 'body', much like the one we know now, but without the
inconveniences.
Not all will automatically go to heaven .. in fact, probably only a small number.
..but eventually, a much larger number will make it.

'Heaven' is not a magic fairy land, in as much as we will still have status, but not due to money..
..no .. due to piety and deeds.
Neither is status something that cannot change .. but I've never been a candidate for "head boy"

Please explain, why the Bible even has words like resurrection to life, to be raised up from the dead, asleep in death, The soul that is sinning itself will die, humans and animals all have the one spirit or breath, in that vary day his thoughts perish, there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going. I don't mean your explanation, I mean scriptures alone.dge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going. I don't mean your explanation, I mean scriptures alone.

The problem with quoting Bible verses, is that we all have different interpretations for them.
What do you think about the parable of "the sheep & the goats" for example?

If that would be okay with you? Why would Jesus offer us everlasting life for those that believe in him, if we already had it, no matter where we were going?

G-d, through His prophets and warners, has given glad tidings to those that follow a righteous path.
The converse is also true i.e. warning of suffering, due to "falling off the wagon"