Did Jesus come to save all the people of the world?

Im not even going to respond to your claim that im not a Christian.

I will say that you conveniently forgot the following verses.. not to mention the entire chapter of Acts 15

15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

Not to nention the apostolic church were Jews. They didnt convert to a new religion.. they accepted Jesus as their Messiah. They still kept doing what they always did in their faith. What they didnt do is put that burden on Gentiles.

Nobody replaced the Jews. God does not lie. God doesnt dishonor His covenant with them. He may have chastized and punished them but He did as any father does. The chastisement then the love and reconciliation when the child repents. Over and over and over again .. just as He does with Christians. His mercy is everlasting.

Psalm 100.5 For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting, And His truth endures to all generations.
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

''called by my name''hmmm could that be Jehovah's witnesses ? wow it is
 
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

''called by my name''hmmm could that be Jehovah's witnesses ? wow it is

🤣😂🤣 Nice try and nice redirection. Your little group of old men that decided that Jehovah is the correct translation of YHWH. I would bet any Jewish scholar would say differently.
 
What does that even mean, in the context of "no salvation without belief in Jesus" ?

Acts 4:12

Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
 
Read the Qur'an.

If you don't wish to discuss the contradiction, I can understand why.
I'm not Jewish and I'm not Muslim. I know what the Bible says about God reconciling with the Jews. There is no contradiction.

The NT says that Jesus came for His people first and they didn't receive Him at His first visitation. The Bible says they will know whom they pierced at His second. The Spirit of Grace will fall on them. On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness. That is in their book and mine. I do not think the Quran says the same thing.
 
..I know what the Bible says about God reconciling with the Jews. There is no contradiction.
That's absurd .. you tell us that the Bible states that Jesus is reported to have said that people
won't obtain salvation unless they believe in him ( which in some sense I can agree with ),
but then argue that the ethnic race of Jews are effectively exempt, because of some other
passage in the Bible.

Where was Jesus when he said that? Was it in Jerusalem surrounded by his own people, the Jews?

The NT says that Jesus came for His people first and they didn't receive Him at His first visitation. The Bible says they will know whom they pierced at His second.
I see .. so you are now saying that the ethnic race of the Jews will IN FUTURE believe in him.
That is something different, is it not?

That implies that the Jews in the present time will NOT achieve salvation, and only those at some time
in the future will. ( which I don't necessarily agree with )
 
That's absurd .. you tell us that the Bible states that Jesus is reported to have said that people
won't obtain salvation unless they believe in him ( which in some sense I can agree with ),
but then argue that the ethnic race of Jews are effectively exempt, because of some other
passage in the Bible.
John 3:16-17 ESV

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Mark 16:16 ESV

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.


Where was Jesus when he said that? Was it in Jerusalem surrounded by his own people, the Jews?
That was the audience He was targeting. He came for His own people
I see .. so you are now saying that the ethnic race of the Jews will IN FUTURE believe in him.
That is something different, is it not?

That implies that the Jews in the present time will NOT achieve salvation, and only those at some time
in the future will. ( which I don't necessarily agree with )

I don't know. I only know what is written. The moral of my story is don't take the chance of dying in your sin. There is only Jew and Gentile He set them apart to be Holy as He is Holy. God called them to be His people and Him as their God. We receive the blessing through Abraham and Christians believe that through Jesus and His redemptive work on the cross we receive that. It's called Justification and it's done to us.. it's as if we never sinned. Our sins are forgotten. Then there's sanctification that's done in us.. God's work in our lives as new creation He works in us bringing about Christ like behaviors. Then there's Glorification that's in the future.

My faith teaches the conviction of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God. We believe when someone is so bothered by what the Word says it's the convicting power of God. Are you bothered? Be of good cheer He has overcome this world.

If you don't believe me open the Bible yourself and read the red letters. That His message to the world. The Thread is titled Did Jesus come to save all the people of the world I say with confidence Yes.
 
If you don't believe me open the Bible yourself and read the red letters. That His message to the world. The Thread is titled Did Jesus come to save all the people of the world I say with confidence Yes.
I would also say yes, but if Jesus asked me, "whom do you think I am, I would answer as Peter did, I would offer, you are Christ, the Son of our One God.

It is faith in Christ that is eternal, that faith is not subject to attachment to the flesh.

I hope all is well and happy in life and faith.

Regards Tony
 
I would also say yes, but if Jesus asked me, "whom do you think I am, I would answer as Peter did, I would offer, you are Christ, the Son of our One God.

It is faith in Christ that is eternal, that faith is not subject to attachment to the flesh.

I hope all is well and happy in life and faith.

Regards Tony
Hi Tony that's not quite what he said but I like this one..
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
—2 Peter 1:1

Or Thomas John 20:
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Unfortunately in this life we are attached to the flesh which is our problem. This is why we are told to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh. We are still bound by the sins of the flesh.

Thank you for the good wishes! May God bless you.
 
I don't know. I only know what is written. The moral of my story is don't take the chance of dying in your sin..
Well, quite .. we all have a conscience, but sin is like a disease .. it consumes us.

..and neither do I know. i.e. who will believe or disbelieve (in Jesus), in weeks or years to come
 
Hi Tony that's not quite what he said but I like this one..
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.
—2 Peter 1:1

Or Thomas John 20:
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Unfortunately in this life we are attached to the flesh which is our problem. This is why we are told to walk according to the Spirit and not the flesh. We are still bound by the sins of the flesh.

Thank you for the good wishes! May God bless you.
This is the passage quoted. Prior to these verses, it was offered as to what other people were saying about Jesus.

Matthew 16:15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

It was that statement that the Church was to be built upon. (Quoted after these verses).

Regards Tony
 
This is the passage quoted. Prior to these verses, it was offered as to what other people were saying about Jesus.

Matthew 16:15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

It was that statement that the Church was to be built upon. (Quoted after these verses).

Regards Tony
People miss what that claim is.. being the Son of God. The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death.
 
Is universal salvation in the bible? Im curious if it can be backed up by scripture. Thank you ❤️
Short answer is ... yes it is, but then again, alternate eschatolopgies are also offered. So it's a base of 'balancing the Book' ...

A technical point first: the Greek word aionos comes to us via the Latin aeternum and is rendered 'eternal' ... however ...

David Bentley Hart has written:
“Much depends, naturally, on how content one is to see the Greek adjective αιωνιον, aionios, rendered simply and flatly as "eternal" or "everlasting." It is, after all, a word whose ambiguity has been noted since the earliest centuries of the church...

Certainly the noun αἰών, aion (or aeon), from which it is derived, did come during the classical and late antique periods to refer on occasion to a period of endless or at least indeterminate duration; but that was never its most literal acceptation. Throughout the whole of ancient and late antique Greek literature, an "aeon" was most properly an "age," which is simply to say a "substantial period of time" or an "extended interval."

At first, it was typically used to indicate the lifespan of a single person, though sometimes it could be used of a considerably shorter period (even, as it happens, a single year). It came over time to mean something like a discrete epoch, or a time far in the past, or an age far off in the future", and also "John Chrysostom, in his commentary on Ephesians, even used the word aiōnios of the kingdom of the devil specifically to indicate that it is temporary (for it will last only till the end of the present age, he explains)".

+++

Then we get things like Philippians 4:20:
Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Gk: τῷ δὲ θεῷ καὶ πατρὶ ἡμῶν ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν

So a rendition of the Greek according to Hart's New Testament reads "And to our God and Father be the glory, unto the ages of the ages; Amen".

So what we read as 'for ever and ever' is, in the Greek, 'from aeon until aeon' – so there was the prevalent idea that an aeon (aionos) was not eternal in the sense that we understand it, but rather the complete duration of time of a given age – that the aeon of the Mayfly is a day, the aeon of ourselves is threescore years and ten, and the aeon of this world, under the prince of this aeon, whjom Our Lord came to overthrow, is limited and, in a real sense, already over ...

...

It's a big topic – one that's back in the limelight in certain circles..

(For those interested, I follow the Fathers, notably St Maximus the Confessor, and latterly the RC theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, the orthodox theologian David Bentley Hart, and the RC theologian Ilaria Remelli)
 
Here is sopmething from the Orthodox Theolgian Kallistos Ware –

1. “Love could not bear that”
There are some questions which, at any rate in our present state of knowledge, we cannot answer; and yet, unanswerable though these questions may be, we cannot avoid raising them. Looking beyond the threshold of death, we ask: How can the soul exist without the body? What is the nature of our disembodied consciousness between death and the final resurrection? What is the precise relationship between our present body and the “spiritual body” (1 Cor 15:44) which the righteous will receive in the Age to come?

Last, but not least, we ask: Dare we hope for the salvation of all? It is upon this final question that I wish to concentrate.

Unanswerable or not, it is a question that decisively affects our entire understanding of God’s relationship to the world. At the ultimate conclusion of salvation history, will there be an all-embracing reconciliation? Will every created being eventually find a place within the Trinitarian perichoresis, within the movement of mutual love that passes eternally among Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

"Sin is Behovely, but
All shall be well, and
All manner of thing shall be well."
Have we the right to endorse that confident affirmation of Julian of Norwich, as T. S. Eliot does in the last of
his Four Quartets?

... The dilemma that disturbs us is well summed up in a conversation recorded by Archimandrite Sophrony, the disciple of St Silouan of Mount Athos:
It was particularly characteristic of Staretz Silouan to pray for the dead suffering in the hell of separation from God... He could not bear to think that anyone would languish in “outer darkness.” I remember a conversation between him and a certain hermit, who declared with evident satisfaction, “God will punish all atheists. They will burn in everlasting fire.”
Obviously upset, the Staretz said, “Tell me, supposing you went to paradise, and there looked down and saw somebody burning in hell-fire—would you feel happy?”
“It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault,” said the hermit.
The Staretz answered him with a sorrowful countenance. “Love could not bear that,” he said. “We must pray for all.”

Here exactly the basic problem is set before us. St Silouan appeals to divine compassion: “Love could not bear that.” The hermit emphasizes human responsibility: “It would be their own fault.” We are confronted by twο principles that are apparently conflicting: first, God is love; second, human beings are free.

+++

In my belief, God is never happy with half-measures. If he sent His Son to save all, then all is the operative word.

I base my hope on Scripture and what I understand of Christ – I read John 3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him

+++
 
An extension of John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved."

I don't think "men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil" – I think we suffer blindness, and ignorance and fear, and in so doing express intolerance and all manner of ills ...

"For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved."
I live in the hope that when I die, I will face the judgement seat and my life will be revealed in the light of truth. And then I have the choice to cling onto my obvious ills and errors, and deny the will and love of God, or I can repent.

I cannot see how, in 70-odd years, one can do so much evil that an eternity of torment will suffice as judgement. It's disproportionate and as such it is not 'good' or 'just' in any meaningful sense.

One lost soul is a failure of love ... and yet the Divine Love is Infinite and Absolute ...

I could better believe a God who simply extinguishes the soul, rather than keep it in perpetual torment – in a place where it cannot repent, it cannot learn – it can do nothing but suffer ... and to what end? To who's satisfaction?
 
People miss what that claim is.. being the Son of God. The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death.
So Jesus, who was an "Annointed One" which is also the "Christ" and the "Messiah" of God, claims to be the same "Nature of God" and I agree 100%.

We can also see that Jesus also informed us that he was not the same essence of God. Many Bible verses can and will support this.

Yet, I also agree we can see Jesus Christ as God, knowing no one has ever seen God.

John 1:18 KJV No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I like the literal translations of this verse, as they give more clarity if what is being said, without interpretation (there are many translations that include interpretation)

Literal Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded [Him].

Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known

Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.

Begotten is the key here, what is begotten is the Holy Spirit, which becomes what is "Annointed" unto Jesus.

I see this is What we know of God, essence of the Holy Spirit, which is begotten of God.

That is how I see Jesus the Christ, that is my Faith in Jesus the Christ.

The path I have taken is that I also see that "Annointment", of the Holy Spirt, God has given to all His chosen Messengers in various levels of Intensity.

That is all offered in naught but Love, Regards Tony
 
@Thomas i have to ask whats the point then? Whats the point of any of it if we're all going to be saved.. whats the point of Jesus suffering on the cross? Whats the point of the law and of grace through faith. Unsaved people get a lot less hassle from the enemy thats for sure. Is satan and the fallen angels going to be saved as well? Satan was cast down because of his rebellion which is what mankind is guilty of.. open rebellion to God. For me this is a dangerous teaching comforting people with something that you cant even be 100% sure of.. and the blood on your hands if by chance you're wrong? I respect your belief but being my brother in Christ i hope you are right. God bless you and thank you for your thoughtful answer to my question.
 
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