Alternative christian sects section?

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Blazn!

maybe it would be helpful to have an alternative christian section to list all those religions that use the name of christianity but do not believe that christ is god or are merely adopting certain christian doctrine.
there are so many of these groups that perhaps they deserve there own section and it would allow the moving of posts that are in the wrong place thus getting rid of arguments and tension.

any comments?

Well, here's the thing as I see it...we've already got three major divisions already, even if two of them really haven't gone quite as hoped. Further subdividing leads to "us and them" attitudes, which are contrary to the goal and purpose of the site.

I wasn't keen on the first division, but I could understand a separation between "inerrant" and "errant" types (those who hold the Bible canon alone, and those who look outside the canon.) In effect, the division was the canon, and it was because of tradition and loyalties. Some take great offense bringing in outside texts. OK, I understand that.

I really wasn't too keen on the second division, but there were those who felt put out because they didn't quite fit in one place or the other. Enough fuss was raised that a place was created for them, in order to try to keep peace.

To further divide the Christianity forum, would be to prove teh naysayers correct, that Christianity can't even get along with itself, how can it possibly expect to get along with the rest of the world?

They've got a point.

If we can't find a way to get along in the controlled environment of a multi-faith forum, how can we possibly expect to get along in the real world? This place is an exercise, a place to develop the muscles to take us out into the real world and be the peacemakers that the Christian Messiah Jesus taught us to be.

Can we cure the world? I dunno, frankly I doubt it. But we can make a difference among the people where we find ourselves.

Are we lemmings, following the leaders of the past over the cliff? Or do we sit down for a moment, think about things with a little bit of reason, and try our darndest to be better than they were.

There is too much division in Christianity. What say we make some attempt at reconciliation?

My two cents.

 

[Quahom1]

Kindest Regards, all!


Sorry to pick on you, Q!

Works, for what value they have, are in accord with ability. I would think it would hardly be expected for a crippled person to chop and stack firewood for a senior citizen.

Sometimes that "work" may be no more than a sympathetic ear, or a shoulder to cry on, or a voice on the other end of a telephone.

My two cents.

Not picked on at all. That too is my point. The greatest treasure we have, is the wisdom of the elders...they could tell stories all day, and TV would become defunct, but for long distance comms. In other words, we do something because we have faith, not have faith because we do something, nor think we need do something to augement our faith.

 

[Prober]

Here's what I just don't understand...

Real Christians are all brothers (and sisters). Real Christians all get along with each other because that's the nature of being Christian (or Christ-like).

How can there be "alternative Christians"?

Christians are Christians.

There may be some differences of opinion along the way, but we're all still brothers!

There is no "them and us".

This is what Jesus wanted.

 

[juantoo3]

"In other words, we do something because we have faith, not have faith because we do something, nor think we need do something to augement our faith."

Yes, words suitable for framing and quoting!

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Prober!

Here's what I just don't understand...

Real Christians are all brothers (and sisters). Real Christians all get along with each other because that's the nature of being Christian (or Christ-like).

How can there be "alternative Christians"?

Christians are Christians.

There may be some differences of opinion along the way, but we're all still brothers!

There is no "them and us".

This is what Jesus wanted.

In theory, yes.

In practical reality, no. Western history is full of wars of division between Christian sects / denominations. Luthur himself faced the death penalty, and were it not for his powerful patrons and had the Catholic "policemen" gotten their hands on him, the history of the faith might be quite different. One need only look at the purges back and forth in England about the time of Bloody Mary. Lots and lots of martyrs were burned at the stake. (a good read for this is "Foxe's Book of Martyrs")

Like I said, do we follow the leaders of the past and the mistakes they made? Or do we try to figure out some way to at least be civil amongst ourselves, so we can be civil in the larger society? (How best to defeat the Anti-Christ, than to take away his ammunition?)

Two more cents.

 

[Quahom1]

"In other words, we do something because we have faith, not have faith because we do something, nor think we need do something to augement our faith."

Yes, words suitable for framing and quoting!

no copy wright clauses to consider. I didn't think of it first, and God doesn't need royalties...

 

[cyberpi]

Here's what I just don't understand...

Real Christians are all brothers (and sisters). Real Christians all get along with each other because that's the nature of being Christian (or Christ-like).

How can there be "alternative Christians"?

Christians are Christians.

There may be some differences of opinion along the way, but we're all still brothers!

There is no "them and us".

This is what Jesus wanted.

Amen. Christ (pbuh) and God (swt) defines Christianity... not the other way around. Frankly I don't get this division with 'liberal christianity' either. The real division person to person is between the person and person. All the rest is just categorization and classification... the majority of which people are not learned enough to really comprehend anyway. I certainly don't.

 

[pattimax]

Describing Love without action is equally pointless.
This is true, although you must have love.
I think patience is the closest you will get... which I consider the sacrifice of time or opportunity. When an opportunity knocks in the mind it is patience that it takes to overcome it.
They call this temptation.
So the restraint to not act directly is a real action in the mind. Similarly, forgiveness or mercy are recognized as actions.

In my opinion, (OK) giving to charity is crucial to knowing Love.
Yes, giving is a very wise thing, but it will not get you to God without Love.
So is forgiveness, which is NOT a solo action.
So having a relationship with the Lord depends on others?

How easy it is to claim forgiveness in the mind but NOT in one's actions.
Try your heart.
Also, anyone who thinks they can confess a sin to a wall and receive Gods (swt) forgiveness is missing something. It's a heart thing.
In every case I have seen that the relationship with God (swt) is through people. By design, the relationship with God (swt) is not a private affair. I think whoever thinks it is, is only deluding themselves for a reason.
Agreed whole-heartedly.
I have formerly deluded myself along similar lines. Being charitable though should not be blind.
Not quite sure what you mean. I think I agree. Although I have known people that are so involved in religious activity and how they are percieved they ignore the needs of their family.
In my opinion(OK) Faith and Truth are as important as Love, and they represent lessons that the soul must learn...
lessons which are NOT learned in private or by reading.
Hmmm. 1 Corinthians 13
I'm very certain it requires action. Personal Love is just that... its like a person who walks up to a person with all the romantic desires in the world but has only been deluding themselves. It is a sad sight. Don't bank on it. If you want to know God (swt) it won't be in privacy.

Yes, deluding yourself is actually twisted.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

i see it like a radio station when two channels collide and you can't really enjoy one or the other-- it becomes incoherent. just respectable division of channels so the music could be heard on the station you happen to be on. we are equal in the eyes of god, no one is saying one christian is worth more than another, strictly about keeping posts in the right place so as not to cause arguments over changed, added, or subtracted doctrine. people can freely jump to mormon or jw or lds or mainstream christianity forum, as an example, but to let one group sidetrack conversation with a book that has nothing to do with the other groups conversation, has caused many arguments (not dialogue) here i have noticed. $.02.

 

[Quahom1]

Amen. Christ (pbuh) and God (swt) defines Christianity... not the other way around. Frankly I don't get this division with 'liberal christianity' either. The real division person to person is between the person and person. All the rest is just categorization and classification... the majority of which people are not learned enough to really comprehend anyway. I certainly don't.

No. Christ was not a Christian. He is the way. A Christian is defined by the person who follows Christ (or attempts to).

What is the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite or Sufi? And why?

I know the answers, so the question is as rhetorical as the difference between a liberal Christian and a conservative Christian. One makes allowances for human behavior that the other refuses to.

 

[cyberpi]

no copy wright clauses to consider. I didn't think of it first, and God doesn't need royalties...

I've heard of a playwright and a shipwright, but I think a copyright is a right to control copies... not a right to wright.

 

[pattimax]

Sorry about that -- Slow on the immediate reply--- A comment on current conversation. All valid, but first is LOVE!

 

[Quahom1]

Here's what I just don't understand...

Real Christians are all brothers (and sisters). Real Christians all get along with each other because that's the nature of being Christian (or Christ-like).

How can there be "alternative Christians"?

Christians are Christians.

There may be some differences of opinion along the way, but we're all still brothers!

There is no "them and us".

This is what Jesus wanted.

People who want peace and tranquility get along with each other because that's the nature of being the ultimate human.

There is no such thing as an alternative Christian. Christians are known by the fruit they bear, not by their title.

There is a them, and an us in this world, sadly enough.

Jesus wants total compliance with the will of God. No deviation, no exceptions. What the will of God is, is now the arguement.

 

[Quahom1]

I've heard of a playwright and a shipwright, but I think a copyright is a right to control copies... not a right to wright.

Never claimed my fingers could keep up with my brain...sorry.

btw: what is a shipwright?

 

[Faithfulservant]

What if your paralyzed?

The best thing you can do for someone is pray..

I wanted to add that Good works is the fruit of faith.. All things bear fruit...good or bad...if your life belongs to Christ then you will do works.. you seek to please your Lord and you ask Him to put you to work.. praying for others more than yourself is the sign of spiritual maturity...Its a baby step situation.. you start off trying to become a better person and as you achieve this God molds you into someone He will work through for His glory and edification and you will become that better person because you are recreated into the image of the living God.

I love how my pastor puts it... putting the "Old Man" to rest because we are a new creation in Christ.

 

[Quahom1]

i see it like a radio station when two channels collide and you can't really enjoy one or the other-- it becomes incoherent. just respectable division of channels so the music could be heard on the station you happen to be on. we are equal in the eyes of god, no one is saying one christian is worth more than another, strictly about keeping posts in the right place so as not to cause arguments over changed, added, or subtracted doctrine. people can freely jump to mormon or jw or lds or mainstream christianity forum, as an example, but to let one group sidetrack conversation with a book that has nothing to do with the other groups conversation, has caused many arguments (not dialogue) here i have noticed. $.02.

Yes, you are correct. However using your radio frequency concept, there is the ability to "filter" one in order to hear the other. But that is up to the "listener".

 

[Quahom1]

The best thing you can do for someone is pray..

I wanted to add that Good works is the fruit of faith.. All things bear fruit...good or bad...if your life belongs to Christ then you will do works.. you seek to please your Lord and you ask Him to put you to work.. praying for others more than yourself is the sign of spiritual maturity...Its a baby step situation.. you start off trying to become a better person and as you achieve this God molds you into someone He will work through for His glory and edification and you will become that better person because you are recreated into the image of the living God.

I love how my pastor puts it... putting the "Old Man" to rest because we are a new creation in Christ.

The "old man" I presume is us? I look forward to being "new" again (just not living the same old life) lol

 

[cyberpi]

No. Christ was not a Christian. He is the way. A Christian is defined by the person who follows Christ (or attempts to).

What is the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite or Sufi? And why?

I know the answers, so the question is as rhetorical as the difference between a liberal Christian and a conservative Christian. One makes allowances for human behavior that the other refuses to.

Hmmm... Christ (pbuh) not a Christian? Lead not by example? The Lord is not thy servant? Oh, how I disagree with your sentence, "Christ was not a Christian". Perhaps it is a difference over the definition of 'defined'. I don't think a Christian can define all his days. It goes against the whole definition of 'Faith' as I know it... like that of being a servant.

 

[Faithfulservant]

The "old man" I presume is us? I look forward to being "new" again (just not living the same old life) lol

Nah the old man is us before Christ. The worldly fleshly part of us.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

[Dor]

Romans7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

I end up in a fight with my wretched self quite often.