Alternative christian sects section?

Dor said:
Yes German JW's as individuals were persecuted by the Nazis...who wasnt.
I think it might be good for everyone to go look at the writings and actions of Joseph F Rutherford and Nathan H. Knorr. Especially the Decleration of Facts from 1933 convention in Berlin. and the letter to Hitler from 33.

I think it might be good for everyone to remember, that lots of people didn't do what their faith said they should do (I think I was clear on mine), during Nazi Germany. And as I recall...evangelicals of the time, thought Germany was the whereforall...careful what you bring up from the past...
 
As people are talking about JW and hitler ,
In 1934 HE SAID shaking his fists,‘This brood (JW)will be exterminated in Germany!’" Now, many years later, has the "brood" been exterminated?​

To the contrary, they are stronger than ever. But Hitler and his Nazism have been defunct some years. In contrast, there are now many active Witnesses in Germany, The "brood" has not been exterminated. It has multiplied! They are stronger than ever!
 
mee said:
As people are talking about JW and hitler ,
In 1934 HE SAID shaking his fists,‘This brood (JW)will be exterminated in Germany!’" Now, many years later, has the "brood" been exterminated?​




To the contrary, they are stronger than ever. But Hitler and his Nazism have been defunct some years. In contrast, there are now many active Witnesses in Germany, The "brood" has not been exterminated. It has multiplied! They are stronger than ever!

The Jehovah's Witness kingdom has declined by 250,000 in the last twenty five years alone. There are now less than 6,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses world wide, and under 500,000 in the US.

Unfortunately, it is Nazism that is on the rise again. Hitler did not make the statement you brought up. One of his ministers did. Ah, yes Goebells, was the name I believe. Minister of Propaganda. But then he said similar statements on other groups as well.
 
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China Cat Sunflower said:
As I said on another thread, Christian isn't just a religion, it's also a general ethnicity. There's a whole universe of Christian thought, practice, and culture, and it's evolving and changing all the time. There is a desperate need for a broad dialog between all the factions and those on the fringes, not to codify and standardize, but to learn to listen and share. People are crying out for this everywhere you turn. The solution is not to form a consensus on where to erect a fence, but to tear down the fences and walls.

Perhaps what we could say is that Christianity is not really one religion, but many religions in one.

Christianity is a religion that needs to be explored. Nobody figures out all the right reasoning all at once. Nobody gets it right the first time. Even if someone gets it wrong, there is no need to tell them off right away. Let them figure it out. It's nice when we're all encouraged to explore the concepts on our own, and discover our place in the story God is writing.

We're afraid that if one person gets it wrong, and expresses an idea that isn't in line with "Christianity" that person will start spreading that idea. Should we tell that person off for getting it wrong?

I think not. I think when we get the concepts wrong, it's much better for us to figure it out slowly but surely rather than being told we're wrong straight away. If people kept saying to us, "no, you have to do it this way," we would probably end up not understanding anything about Christianity. That's because the particular approach to Christianity that people tell us to follow makes more sense to those people than us. Conforming to someone else's approach to Christianity does not help us understand Christianity better.

It's like copying somebody else's answers in a test.

We all come from different walks of life, and so we have to appreciate the different personalities of individuals that form God's spiritual temple.

Alternative Christianity?

My view is that all Christians are alternative Christians, regardless of what kind of Christian you claim to be. Each spiritual journey is itself an alternative. Christianity wasn't meant to be a monolithic faith where everybody wears the same clothes, same uniform, same haircut, same hairstyle, same coloured eyes, same skin colour, etc. Christianity isn't a copy-cat religion.

Christianity is a religion of alternatives. It's the same Christ leading us through different doors. Everyone who wants to find God has to go through a different door and they can't go through somebody else's door. They have to go through their own. A universal Christ, a universal Messiah, universal spiritual leader. Different lives, same leader. Christianity is a religion about a test with answers but you don't copy somebody else's answers. You write your own.

Of course, there's a catch. Christianity doesn't go out of its way to say "all paths lead to God." Instead, it says, "all paths led by Christ lead to God.":D

There's a trade-off between diversity and conformity. Diversity can lead people astray yet conformity can be just as bad. Conformity is something people can start to idolise. You start getting a group mentality where everyone has to meet a particular standard. People start judging each other on who conforms to the standard. Diversity can dilute the meaning of Christianity into something vague and conformity can distort the whole idea of Christianity by getting people to align to a single concept. Because a lot of people are so prone to thinking that one size shoe fits all sizes the whole notion of Christianity is reduced and simplified to what they are taught.

That kind of reminds me of the story of the Tower of Babel. People thought they had to connect to God using some kind of "Tower" to reach heaven but God wanted something more personal. The Tower of Babel was a "visible structure" that was easy to see. That's why people liked the idea so much.

Conformity is like building a Tower of Babel. Any organised religion can be much like a Tower of Babel where the organisation is exalted as the means of connecting with God when all God wants is a personal relationship with us. Getting everyone to follow the same rules is an idea that appeals to a lot of people.:eek:

I believe a lot of religious groups in Christianity accidentally fall for this Tower of Babel idea without knowing it. The "visible structure" is built on like a Tower when we can all connect with God directly.:)
 
Christianity isn't a religion, It is a way of life. Many call themselves Christian, however the sad truth is they do not live as Christians.

The Bible isn't a religious book. It is a book of faith. Mostly it tells stories about those with faith. It is a book of history. It is a book of love. It is a book of wisdom, and a book of hope.

The conformity of which you speak is important to any structure, physical or metaphorical. A house divided can not stand.

To a true Christian, many roads lead to Rome. One road leads the way home.
 
Quahom1 said:
Christianity isn't a religion, It is a way of life. Many call themselves Christian, however the sad truth is they do not live as Christians.
I would say that it's both a religion and an ethnicity (way of life). What does it mean to live as a Christian?

The Bible isn't a religious book. It is a book of faith. Mostly it tells stories about those with faith. It is a book of history. It is a book of love. It is a book of wisdom, and a book of hope.
The viewpoint of mainstream biblical scholarship is that the Bible contains very little of what we would understand to be factual historicity. Allbright has been thoroughly discredited. Otherwise I agree with the balance of what you're saying.

The conformity of which you speak is important to any structure, physical or metaphorical. A house divided can not stand.
It's important for structural integrity, but every structure needs maintenence and occasional remodeling.

To a true Christian, many roads lead to Rome. One road leads the way home.
What is a true Christian? Can we identify such by how they live the Christian life referred to in point one? And, by comparison, can we say who is not a true christian? What are the criteria?

Chris
 
there is a foundation to christianity and that is the resurrected and glorified jesus christ, the cornerstone that the builders rejected. the culture of a church is not the question, but the changing of the foundation is, where others build on sand. some churches have a culture of being wealthy, then they tend to be more globally evangelical. some churches have great singing talent, and they tend to be gospel, others have the gift to lead people to baptism and are baptist, others lead people to christ through community service.. but the foundation does not change in christianity. the different denominations just show the talents given to the group of people, but they are all the same foundation-wise. it is when the foundation has been changed, that it is longer christianity, but a sect, or cult taking on, adopting certain attributes of christianity to their convenience.
 
Quahom1 said:
The Jehovah's Witness kingdom has declined by 250,000 in the last twenty five years alone. There are now less than 6,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses world wide, and under 500,000 in the US.

quote] the remnent of spiritual israel (144,000)has declined on the earth because they are in heaven ruling as kings and priests with Jesus christ in the heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 but the great crowd of JW who will be inheriting the earth are increasing all over the world just as the bible fortold REVELATION 7;9-10 AND ISAIAH 60;22
The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time........... Yes, Jehovah really is speeding it up in this time of the end ,the great crowd who are welcoming Jesus as their king of Gods kingdom are a great crowd indeed.
 
Quahom1 said:
The Bible isn't a religious book. It is a book of faith. Mostly it tells stories about those with faith. It is a book of history. It is a book of love. It is a book of wisdom, and a book of hope.

quote] its also a book of prophecies. some already fullfilled ,some undergoing fullfillment right now, and some yet to be fullfilled. what a thrilling book it is.
 
religion is mans attempt to reach God through works and our own merit... Its not about religion its about having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.
 
Faithfulservant said:
religion is mans attempt to reach God through works and our own merit... Its not about religion its about having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.
**applause** {I think you very succinctly summed up James chapter 1!}
 
mee said:
Quahom1 said:
The Bible isn't a religious book. It is a book of faith. Mostly it tells stories about those with faith. It is a book of history. It is a book of love. It is a book of wisdom, and a book of hope.

quote] its also a book of prophecies. some already fullfilled ,some undergoing fullfillment right now, and some yet to be fullfilled. what a thrilling book it is.

I believe I was quite clear on that. I said it was a book of Faith, Hope and Love. Faith is the belief in things as yet unseen, and the hope for things that have yet to be. Is that not prophecy in its purest sense?
 
Faithfulservant said:
religion is mans attempt to reach God through works and our own merit... Its not about religion its about having a relationship with God through Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.

We reach God by loving him. Good works please God, but without love it is pointless.
 
We can sit in the corner and truly love God and the wonderful life he has given us and and we are much closer to God than the 10k charity worker that is just trying to impress her friends.
 
pattimax said:
We can sit in the corner and truly love God and the wonderful life he has given us and and we are much closer to God than the 10k charity worker that is just trying to impress her friends.

I understand the "filthy rags" part implied, but the one sitting in the corner best be doing something with their talents of faith, like say knitting socks for the poor, while contemplating the wonders of God?
 
Describing Love without action is equally pointless. I think patience is the closest you will get... which I consider the sacrifice of time or opportunity. When an opportunity knocks in the mind it is patience that it takes to overcome it. So the restraint to not act directly is a real action in the mind. Similarly, forgiveness or mercy are recognized as actions.

In my opinion, giving to charity is crucial to knowing Love. So is forgiveness, which is NOT a solo action. How easy it is to claim forgiveness in the mind but NOT in one's actions. Also, anyone who thinks they can confess a sin to a wall and receive Gods (swt) forgiveness is missing something. In every case I have seen that the relationship with God (swt) is through people. By design, the relationship with God (swt) is not a private affair. I think whoever thinks it is, is only deluding themselves for a reason. I have formerly deluded myself along similar lines. Being charitable though should not be blind.

In my opinion Faith and Truth are as important as Love, and they represent lessons that the soul must learn... lessons which are NOT learned in private or by reading. I'm very certain it requires action. Personal Love is just that... its like a person who walks up to a person with all the romantic desires in the world but has only been deluding themselves. It is a sad sight. Don't bank on it. If you want to know God (swt) it won't be in privacy.
 
Quahom1 said:
I understand the "filthy rags" part implied, but the one sitting in the corner best be doing something with their talents of faith, like say knitting socks for the poor, while contemplating the wonders of God?
What if your paralyzed?
 
Quahom1 said:
I understand the "filthy rags" part implied, but the one sitting in the corner best be doing something with their talents of faith, like say knitting socks for the poor, while contemplating the wonders of God?

ie Martha and Mary...
 
Kindest Regards, all!

Quahom1 said:
I understand the "filthy rags" part implied, but the one sitting in the corner best be doing something with their talents of faith, like say knitting socks for the poor, while contemplating the wonders of God?
Sorry to pick on you, Q!

Works, for what value they have, are in accord with ability. I would think it would hardly be expected for a crippled person to chop and stack firewood for a senior citizen.

Sometimes that "work" may be no more than a sympathetic ear, or a shoulder to cry on, or a voice on the other end of a telephone.

My two cents.
 
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