Why do people try to change Christianity?

Cage said:
Many are searching the scriptures and are pulling out what resinates as truth, and leaving what goes against the very spirit of God, as Christ declared it.
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That's just it, though. Many are searching the scriptures and interpreting what resonates as truth. They are leaving behind those things that don't jibe with their understanding, or that contradict what they wish to believe. We all have what Jesus declared, and almost two thousand years later, we are still arguing over what He said with no end in sight. And none of us is worthy to speak for the spirit of G-d.

There are many who are becoming editors of the Bible, with a desired purpose or political motivation behind their agenda. One could say this even of the KJV, but at least that was a committee of 75 religious scholars. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry feels entitled to translate the text as they see fit, and impose that translation on others.

Some Christians are taking great strides towards the light, and away from the darkness. I can see it; I see it almost everyday. These are the ones accused of "changing" Christianity in OP. I say some [many actually] have found a simpler way of approaching, finding, and accepting God through Jesus, and the Bible.

The all or nothing attitude is dangerous; we can verify this by taking a look at Christian history, yes?

What is wrong with sifting through the Bible, and accepting that which is good, and rejecting the wrong...The things that contradict the way God is presentd by Jesus, and his followers?

Love is not complicated, imo...
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You are correct, love is not complicated, and neither is the Bible. When one gets done sifting through the Bible, they will actually find it reinforces itself. What contradictions there seem to be, are there for a purpose. So, "sifting" should leave the text intact, even where there are verses that sting to the core and to the marrow.
 
Quahom1 said:
Please point me to the verses that expound upon this economic injustice. Considering that Lot offered his daughters in lieu of the two male "guests" he was hosting, to satisfy the cravings of the crowd in front of his home, that sounds like nothing economical that I'm aware of.
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LOL...I guess one could take into account the proceeds from prostitution towards the gross local economy... :D ;)
 
RevKelly said:
And if you read the Hebrew meaning of Binding and Loosing, it means Forbidding and Permissing. So, what you just said was: 'what you forbid on Earth, shall be forbidden in Heaven, and what you permit on Earth, shall be permitted in Heaven.'

So God isn't the one that makes the choice.

We are.

According to Jesus.
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Regardless of Bible version, there is a very important point being overlooked: one *must* be in the will of the Father...without it, the binding and loosing (or permitting, if you prefer) are meaningless.

So, G-d does hold the trump card...either His way, or no way, when it comes to binding and loosing.

According to Jesus. (Read the fine print...)
 
Kindest Regards, Saltmeister!
Saltmeister said:
I think the point of the story of eating of the fruit was that Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. They chose to know good and evil.
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You will not find me dispute this, if you notice: "apple" is in quotation marks. My point was that Adam had a choice, to follow after his mate and share her fate, or not. We know the story from there.

The Garden of Eden, though, was a place of peace and harmony. A place of perfection. A place of innocence. A place of purity and serenity. Adam and Eve were innocent before they ate the fruit. They knew good, but knew no evil. Their minds before then were focused on the good things. Evil was beyond anything they had ever seen, felt, experienced or anything they could ever have known or imagined.

The Garden of Eden and this world could be said to have been two separate, parallel universes.

But when they tasted the fruit, they didn't belong in the universe of Eden anymore. Eden was for the innocent. But with their knowledge of evil, they were no longer innocent. They could imagine, create and invent evil. They had the creative ability to do evil -- to scheme, machinate and conspire. To deceive and beguile.

Their loss of innocence was the reason why they were expelled from the Garden -- they didn't belong.

They no longer fit into a place of beauty, purity and serenity.
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Yet, if I read this correctly, the implication is that this world is "evil," which I find difficult to fathom. The further implication is that G-d created this world evil, and I do not see G-d doing so. Nature is nature, neither evil nor good (in the religious sense of those terms). I do not see dogs and cats, squirrels and canarys, waterfalls and giant trees, as evil. Try as I might, it doesn't register. Eden may well have been a place of *total* beauty, purity and serenity, then again, we may not ever know what Eden really was like. Perhaps it was another plane or sphere of existence. Perhaps G-d covered it all up and now we are pumping the resultant fossil fuels into our gas tanks, I don't know, all we can do is speculate.

But I fail to see nature as evil, not when there is so much beauty, purity and serenity in nature. The human nature may be prone to perversion, but nature as a whole still carries on as G-d intended. And it was VERY good.
 
A thought...

It was merciful for God to kick Adam and Eve out of the garden since the tree of life was still there.

They could have lived forever in misery.
 
I thought I would chuck this into the debate.....

"What is wisdom? It has little to do with beliefs. These change year by year from person to person. Only one who does not dare give up beliefs because he has no wisdom will insist that others believe as he does. Cleverness learns something, but wisdom gives up some certainty every day."
 
Prober said:
A thought...

It was merciful for God to kick Adam and Eve out of the garden since the tree of life was still there.

They could have lived forever in misery.
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An interesting thought...

Hmmm, Adam (and presumably Eve) walked with G-d in the garden, and G-d cannot be in the presence of sin...yet the sin was actually in disobedience, of going against the specific instruction not to eat of the fruit...to that point there was no need for understanding of good as opposed to evil, things simply were as G-d intended.

Enter the serpent, able to walk and talk, who seduces Eve (in every sense of the word) and deceives her into partaking of the tree of knowledge, now her mind is opened and she knows. She then shares her newfound "treasure" with her mate, who it would seem hesitates and then dives right in knowing full well he will share in the fate of his mate. That fate was soon in coming, they get kicked out of the Royal Country Club and told not to return.

At this point we have: a serpent cursed to glide on its belly (snakes still have residual appendages, hips and shoulders), the "cake walk" is over and man must till the soil to grow his food (origins of agriculture?), woman is to travail in birth and be subject to her husband (physiologically and in general terms, women are physically smaller than men yet stronger pound for pound, able to endure greater levels of pain, and psychologically tend towards intuition rather than logic).

By chance, is this the reference then to living forever in misery, that had they gained access to the tree of life...that somehow that state would be perpetuated? Through their progeny, which includes us, it has been perpetuated.

Of course, part of the initial warning G-d made, was that to eat of the fruit of knowledge would be death into their lives. Sometimes I have seen this interpreted as meaning like a poison, killing them instantly, but I don't think that is what was meant even initially. I think the implication was that their physical bodies which were meant to last forever, would break down and wear out and come to an end. If the stories can be read literally, it took quite awhile for Adam's body to finally wear out, and only Methuselah lived longer among the patriarchs before the flood. But the entrance of death into the human life...and there are those working with the genome that believe they have uncovered the ageing gene.

Even this "fallen" state of Adam and Eve is idyllic compared to what comes after the flood of Noah, so... :confused:
 
17th Angel said:
I thought I would chuck this into the debate.....

"What is wisdom? It has little to do with beliefs. These change year by year from person to person. Only one who does not dare give up beliefs because he has no wisdom will insist that others believe as he does. Cleverness learns something, but wisdom gives up some certainty every day."
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True. Yet, without a rudder, paddle, keel and helm, one is at the mercy of the wind and tides. While I understand the wisdom in not being certain, of one thing I am most certain...without a foundation, all the rest is subject to structural failure.
 
juantoo3 said:
By chance, is this the reference then to living forever in misery, that had they gained access to the tree of life...that somehow that state would be perpetuated? Through their progeny, which includes us, it has been perpetuated.

Of course, part of the initial warning G-d made, was that to eat of the fruit of knowledge would be death into their lives. Sometimes I have seen this interpreted as meaning like a poison, killing them instantly, but I don't think that is what was meant even initially. I think the implication was that their physical bodies which were meant to last forever, would break down and wear out and come to an end. If the stories can be read literally, it took quite awhile for Adam's body to finally wear out, and only Methuselah lived longer among the patriarchs before the flood. But the entrance of death into the human life...and there are those working with the genome that believe they have uncovered the ageing gene.

Even this "fallen" state of Adam and Eve is idyllic compared to what comes after the flood of Noah, so... :confused:
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Death is merciful versus (the individual person) living forever in misery. I believe that, in the moment that Adam and Eve sinned, they (and everything) started to die.

Trivia - Methuselah means "when he dies, judgement" (or something like that). In the year that Methuselah died, the flood started.
 
juantoo3 said:
True. Yet, without a rudder, paddle, keel and helm, one is at the mercy of the wind and tides. While I understand the wisdom in not being certain, of one thing I am most certain...without a foundation, all the rest is subject to structural failure.
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Why not trust the wind and the tide? After all they are simply doing what they must. By just being what they are... :\
 
P.S. Eve was to be pained in labor once a year or so. Adam had pain every day (in tilling, etc)...
 
17th Angel said:
In YOUR opinion... Choose a better path. It isn't a prooven fact that what you do is better from say what I do.
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It is only proven in the hearts, and minds of those who live that path, 17th Angel. I could never make you understand that path, nor could I convince you that path is greater than any other; it is something people must experience for themselves before it can be understood/felt/known.

Is it greater than other paths? Yes, in my opinion it is the one, and only righteous path. Although many religions can lead a person towards this path, and this way of life. For me, Jesus was the one who saved me; for some it might be Ghandi, or the Buddha that leads them out of the darkness of mind and heart. I can't say for sure, as I don't know the fruit of the many other venues so intimantly; it is merely speculation. I only know/understand what I myself have been given, and/or freed from. :)


I think we are all connected in mind, and spirit. Some place their value on the carnal mind, and the carnal spirit, while others place value, and embrace the simple, non threatening, and perfect Love of God, imo.

This is just how I have come to see things, 17th Angel; free to disagree, as that is completelty your choice. I won't judge you for it, nor will I try to change you mind; I only wish to plant seeds. :)


Much Love,
 
Cage said:
It is only proven in the hearts, and minds of those who live that path, 17th Angel. I could never make you understand that path, nor could I convince you that path is greater than any other; it is something people must experience for themselves before it can be understood/felt/known.

Is it greater than other paths? Yes, in my opinion it is the one, and only righteous path.



This is just how I have come to see things, 17th Angel; free to disagree, as that is completelty your choice. I won't judge you for it, nor will I try to change you mind; I only wish to plant seeds. :)


Much Love,
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I have seen there are more than one path... What is the purpose of a path? To get from here to there... There are many places... many "there's" And there surpisingly isn't too much difference between them.....

Then in your opinion it is glad you are taking what seems right for you.

I know I am free to disagree, as you are free to disagree with me, choice is wonderful isn't it... I too do not judge you.
 
17th Angel said:
Why not trust the wind and the tide? After all they are simply doing what they must. By just being what they are... :\
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Because we are not water. If we were water, what you say would hold merit. But we are not. If we trust the combination of wind and water, then what protects us from the waterfalls, whirlpools, hurricanes and tsunamis? Our own common sense and good judgement, a bit of guardian angel watching over us, and a good boat with a rudder to steer it with (or a solid foundation underneath us). Not much sense, or wisdom, in being up a creek without a paddle... And while I have heard the adage of "going with the flow" or "let go, let G-d," I have issues with that line of thought. Perhaps it works for others, the more trusting lot. It doesn't work for me, I have to steer my path as Spirit leads, even if that means tacking against the tide and the wind... :D
 
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