Why do people try to change Christianity?

Kindest Regards, Saltmeister!

Bible = expression of the Word of God
Christ = manifestation (the Son) of the Word of God
Bible + Christ = act of authorisation and ordainment (Word of God)

That's at least my theory. Hopefully it makes sense . . .

In a way, it does make sense. I'm not sure yet that I fully agree, but I think I see your point.
 
I think life itself is an enviroment for the carnal to take hold. I think our true nature, is infact a God nature, but life creates the carnal in us, and many cleave to the carnal, and live the like. Then there are many others who choose a better path...


Much Love,

In YOUR opinion... Choose a better path. It isn't a prooven fact that what you do is better from say what I do.
 
Kindest Regards, RevKelly!
So part of my intention on this board is to see if I can find a solution to these problems.
I've been looking over the course of a large part of my life, and still haven't found a solution. So if you find one, clue me in.
 
Kindest Regards, Cage!

As noted by others, it seems you have come a long way since last we spoke. I am happy for you!
I think man speaks in error, and if you haven't noticed, the Bible was written, by man. Sure, it's inspired, but man is an evil breed, and our hearts aren't always in the right place. It only makes sense to take this into account when studying the Bible, imo.

I believe in free will, and God never interferes with a persons choice, imo. Why then would God interfere with the Bible, even if man got some of it wrong? Choice is our freedom, and that freedom was given in the beginning with Adam and Eve,

I'm a fan of Jesus, but since my views don't set well with the flock, I refrain from calling my self Christian. But, with your logic, one would have to agree with everything our governments do, and say to be called a citizen, or in my case, an American.

I'm just saying...
I've noticed that there are a number of sub-contexts going on in this thread, probably why it has taken off like it has. But with so many inter-related subjects going on it can be difficult to keep up. That said...

You have an interesting take on things here. I'm not fully certain I agree with equating citizenship with "belonging to" a religion, although I certainly see the similarities. And there is the historic interaction between government and religious institutions. Something seems to me missing in this assessment...and be darned if I can put a finger on it just now.

I don't know that I would call humanity an "evil breed," I really don't think we are by and large. If anything, I am thinking we are kinda neutral with potential to go either way, depending on our free-will and internal desires. Like any good hedonist, we seek those things that cause us joy, love, and happiness...even at the expense of health and possibly even salvation. One need only look to Adam following Eve's lead in partaking of the "apple."

We all, Christians and non-Christians alike, intuitively seek that which we innately understand as "good." Now, what you perceive as good may differ somewhat from what I perceive as good, but we both seek "good" just the same. Where we seem "evil" is when we deliberately go against what we are trained to perceive as good. And we all do, from time to time, and in greater and lesser degrees. Yet, how does someone justify to themselves as being good when acting evil.

Now, I know the Nazi's seem to catch hell for every bad example like this, but I will go here again because it is a fitting example: Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death. Now, post WWII and the Allied victory, this man is guilty of heinous war crimes, and rightly a pariah. Yet, to place him in context, and considering the important contributions this man made to Human Anatomy, specifically the mapping of the Human brain, seems to place him in a bit different light, depending on perspective. Yes, he butchered many hundreds, perhaps thousands of human beings. Yet, his contributions to science are with us to this day, and are drawn upon by millions of doctors the world over, without which our understanding of the brain would be decades behind where it is now.

So it really comes down to perception, particularly the perception of the victor. We are all sinners, yet we all strive to be saints. Some of us do better at it than others, but a big part of the whole judgemental shooting match is perception.

At least that's my (probably heretical) take on the matter.
 
Kindest Regards, wil!
Yes every denomination has members of its sect who have that steadfastness...hmmm so does every religion...those are the ones that have found the solace, the peace in their path. While I believe it can be found in all paths (religions, sects and denominations) some resonate more for some than others...hence the search...hence why all of us are where we are...some of us have found the way home...some of us are biding are time and keeping our mind open...and some of us are still searching...


I've danced down all those roads and must say I thouroughly enjoy the dance and those I've danced with....
Yes. I gotta agree with this. I haven't found a denomination yet that had everything 100% (even though pretty much all of them claim they do, which raises other issues...they can't all be "right" if they are different!, or can they? hmmm...)

I am still searching. I've looked high and low. I will go where the Holy Spirit leads me, and dispense with the traditions of men...seems to me that is the example Jesus gave us. My humble opinion, of course.
 
Kindest Regards, Marietta!
Yes we have some books and letters that were given to us by the Council of Nicea. There are thousands of manuscripts held with in the Vatican volts that the public has no access to. A group of men at the Council of Nicea decided which of these text they would allow in their new religion and then they altered the text to fit the dogma they chose to use in their new found faith.
Ah, a fellow conspiracy theorist! Manuscripts held in the Vatican vaults...hmmm, I have often heard allusion with no proof. Surely by now someone would have gained access or smuggled out some kind of proof that this "vault" even exists. I do understand there are volumes upon volumes of records from such matters as the Inquisition...but that hardly implicates manuscripts from the time of Constantine and the Council of Nicea, there's more than a thousand years between the two.

Besides, there are known forgeries, such as the manuscript "The Donations of Constantine," that have been definitively shown to not be what they claim. Besides, if one has any genuine faith in an Almighty Creator G-d, does one doubt the capabilities of that G-d to steer the events of humans? Why would G-d allow a select few humans to subvert Him in the eyes of the rest of humanity? I suspect such humans who would plot to do so, would meet a rather unpleasant end, and that their efforts would be quickly overturned, at the hand of an Almighty Creator. So in effect, by implying that man can manipulate G-d at will, one is also implying that G-d is impotent, and may not even exist...
 
juantoo3 said:
I don't know that I would call humanity an "evil breed," I really don't think we are by and large. If anything, I am thinking we are kinda neutral with potential to go either way, depending on our free-will and internal desires. Like any good hedonist, we seek those things that cause us joy, love, and happiness...even at the expense of health and possibly even salvation. One need only look to Adam following Eve's lead in partaking of the "apple."

I think the point of the story of eating of the fruit was that Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. They chose to know good and evil.

The Garden of Eden, though, was a place of peace and harmony. A place of perfection. A place of innocence. A place of purity and serenity. Adam and Eve were innocent before they ate the fruit. They knew good, but knew no evil. Their minds before then were focused on the good things. Evil was beyond anything they had ever seen, felt, experienced or anything they could ever have known or imagined.

The Garden of Eden and this world could be said to have been two separate, parallel universes.

But when they tasted the fruit, they didn't belong in the universe of Eden anymore. Eden was for the innocent. But with their knowledge of evil, they were no longer innocent. They could imagine, create and invent evil. They had the creative ability to do evil -- to scheme, machinate and conspire. To deceive and beguile.

Their loss of innocence was the reason why they were expelled from the Garden -- they didn't belong.

They no longer fit into a place of beauty, purity and serenity.
 
They use Gestapo Harrassment Tactics and Mafia Blacklisting Techniques to further their ends. They are dangerous and too many people are falling into their Hatemongering. They are Vultures circling these military funerals.
Hitler and Mussolini used the same methods. Nazi Germany signed a Concordat with the Vatican, and I think it's a pretty safe bet WWII Italy was Catholic as well. Of course, these are political issues, not to be confused with individuals who happen to be Catholic. G-d knows, Protestants aren't perfect either, and have their own historic political blunders to carry the weight of...(Salem, Mass, anyone? or KKK / deep south?)

Hatemongering is another relative term...I hear the battlecries from many denominations; "we're right, you're not, we go to heaven, you don't, join us or we will help you on your way to hell (or at least look down our noses at you in contempt) because you are not a member of our exclusive club." The "country club" attitude is the norm I see all around. Love, when expressed at all, is reserved for "members only" and the occasional token charity case. Sorry for my pessimisim, but hey, that's my real world experience.
 
I think the point of the story of eating of the fruit was that Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. They chose to know good and evil.

The Garden of Eden, though, was a place of peace and harmony. A place of perfection. A place of innocence. A place of purity and serenity. Adam and Eve were innocent before they ate the fruit. They knew good, but knew no evil. Their minds before then were focused on the good things. Evil was beyond anything they had ever seen, felt, experienced or anything they could ever have known or imagined.

I don't think they knew good or evil before the fall. There is no reason to be good apart from the desire not to be evil.

God created us in his image. They were already as gods, having no need for good or evil.

It is said "the guru never lies".
 
They no longer fit into a place of beauty, purity and serenity.

You see humans as ugly then? And missing beauty? I can see purity and beauty all over the place... :\

The one thing I don't get, and no one has ever replied to the querey.. Why would your god make humans that are in error.. "he didn't they were perfect." Well, ugh they obviously wasn't...

I used the idea of me making a creation (a vase) and I on purpose made it wonky and un balanced so it would fall down everytime it was placed upon my fireplace... Not for one second would it stand on it's own. But my only purpose for making it, was to sit it on the fireplace.... What is the point? What was my motivation and reasoning for this? Why would I want to make something that was "useless" And compeletey went agaisnt what I made it for? My fault? My sick perveted humour?
 
I like this view, man. Live and let Live, right? Support is one thing, but non interference is quite another. Anyone who lets homosexuals make them angry, or bitter, or fearful are not in the Spirit of Love. Let God deal with those he deems immoral. It is not our place to do so, and it's certainly not benneficial to let them have that kind of power over our emotions...

This is true for many acts of immorality, imo. We have laws that protect our safety from things like rape, murder, violence and the like, and these things should be enforced, and dealt with by earthly powers, but homosexuality is quite harmless, imo.

Live and let Live...

Much Love,
Yep, pretty much how I see it. I don't have to agree, I do have to tolerate, as long as it isn't thrown up in my face.
 
The one thing I don't get, and no one has ever replied to the querey.. Why would your god make humans that are in error.. "he didn't they were perfect." Well, ugh they obviously wasn't...

If everyone loved you and someone said "they only love you because they have to" and then you made someone that didn't have to love you and they did anyway, maybe you would love those people in a more special way than the others.
 
If everyone loved you and someone said "they only love you because they have to" and then you made someone that didn't have to love you and they did anyway, maybe you would love those people in a more special way than the others.

True, but why punish those who choose not too? It's their choice... And being a "loving" and "wise" being.... You would realise it was YOUR doing, you have given them their cake... allow them to eat it. So now my example to understand this is this...

Hey son!! You don't have to love me... You don't have to obey me! Just going to work... I would love it, if you could keep the house clean... But remeber I have given you the choice to do whatever you want. Take care.
*come home*
*find there has been a party the house is a mess.*
WHAT has happened here!? Thats it mister! I am going to punish you for doing whatever you wanted!
 
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Lets see even if you can not see homosexual in the KJV quote. Tell me how it does not still fit in that quote under the fornicator or adulter?
I'm not quite understanding...there seems to me to be disagreement over interpretation, yet...
And did I say we were supposed to hate anyone? No I did not think so.
Did I say we were supposed to judge them. Nope I dont think so.
I also did not say I had to lie to people and tell them things to make them feel good.

Why not just go by what the bible says. Dont hate people but dont change things to make them feel better.
In the end both sides seem to have come to the same conclusion. We are not asked, as Christians, to be enablers of destructive behavior. But we are asked to love our brothers and sisters, neighbors and so forth. We can agree to disagree, and still be friends.

The trouble I have with the whole gay issue, is that so many seem ready to burn "them" at the stake, when in the context of the verse quoted, the "sin" is no more worthy of punishment than a couple of teens getting lucky for the first time in the back seat of daddy's car. We look with fond amusement at the two teens discovering their sexuality, yet we stand ready to "crucify" somebody who engages in homosexual activity. Believe me, this has been a struggle in my own faith walk, not to instinctively react to behavior that repulses me, but the simple fact is even by the New Testament text quoted (and others like it) homosexual activity is not a death sentence. Or *if it is a reason for execution*, then so it is for the 50 plus percent of divorcees to be condemned along with them, and *everyone* who has ever had sex outside of the bounds of wedlock. OOOPS, that would include me...and I would hazard a guess everyone else who has ever visited this site.

Seems I recall a lesson about "he who is without sin" casting the first stone...
 
True, but why punish those who choose not too? It's their choice... And being a "loving" and "wise" being.... You would realise it was YOUR doing, you have given them their cake... allow them to eat it. So now my example to understand this is this...

Hey son!! You don't have to love me... You don't have to obey me! Just going to work... I would love it, if you could keep the house clean... But remeber I have given you the choice to do whatever you want. Take care.
*come home*
*find there has been a party the house is a mess.*
WHAT has happened here!? Thats it mister! I am going to punish you for doing whatever you wanted!

In God's case, the punishment (if you call it that) would be to live in a messy house.

If you choose to eat a cactus when I've told you it would hurt, then the natural consequences would be painful. I haven't punished you, I've allowed you to experience what you wish.
 
Plus, there was an article a while back that showed that an earthquake in the location that Gamorrah was what most likely caused the destruction. (I'll see if I can find it) God's Will? Or tectonic plate instability combined with a mudslide? I personally don't believe in the Old Testament version of God. God lets you make your own mistakes. IMHO
More like a volcanic eruption, there are still pillars of suphuric salt there, the most famous still referred to as "Lot's wife." Why the difficulty in seeing G-d using natural means? If He created it, I would think He would know how to make it work...
 
In God's case, the punishment (if you call it that) would be to live in a messy house.

If you choose to eat a cactus when I've told you it would hurt, then the natural consequences would be painful. I haven't punished you, I've allowed you to experience what you wish.


But I have enough sense to know that.... To live for vanity or material gain or just to please yourself... where is the punishment?
 
They should realize one can't go online and order up God, with customized details like a Toyota. He is who He is, and it is we who must adapt to Him and His ways...not the other way around.
Yep. Now, can I get a BIG *AMEN!!!*
 
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