I completely agree.
Why do people try to change Christianity?
- Thread starter Dor
- Start date
I completely agree.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
17th Angel said:
Yes, understanding of a certain subject. I was keeping it short and brief to make a point.
17th Angel said:
Depends on the situation.
17th Angel said:
Doing what your wisdom tells you to do.
There was a reason why I put those three lines together -- they're related.
17th Angel said:
No sorry, you're wrong.
That's what I thought when I first encountered that word. Ignorance is not knowing something. You're not ignoring something to be rude and insulting. But, your lack of knowledge would be seen as rude and insulting if you used it.I'd say you were ignorant about the true meaning of ignorance.
Or did you do that on purpose? One step ahead of me are you? You're weren't ignoring the fact that ignorance meant "not knowing" were you? Did I underestimate you?
17th Angel said:
Ah, I like your sense of humour. But why not just use a calculator? But even if you didn't have a calculator, all you need is a pen and some paper. You can zero in on the square root after 3 digit-by-digit iterations.
There you do know what to do, even if you don't know the final answer.
17th Angel said:
Vice isn't necessarily a bad habit. It might be driven by a passion. A dark, evil, conniving, diabolical passion to get what you want and to do things your way. That's not a bad habit. That's being selfish. Ok, that is kind of a "bad" habit, but not a habit that comes from weakness, but a habit that can make you strong and powerful if you play your cards right.
Vice is the opposite of virtue. They are binary opposites.
Virtue is the doing of good, vice is the doing of evil.
17th Angel
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1. keeping it short and brief to make a point.
2. Depends on the situation.
3. Doing what your wisdom tells you to do.
4. No sorry, you're wrong.
I'd say you were ignorant about the true meaning of ignorance.
Or did you do that on purpose? One step ahead of me are you? You're weren't ignoring the fact that ignorance meant "not knowing" were you? Did I underestimate you?
5. Ah, I like your sense of humour. But why not just use a calculator? But even if you didn't have a calculator, all you need is a pen and some paper. You can zero in on the square root after 3 digit-by-digit iterations.
There you do know what to do, even if you don't know the final answer.
6. Vice isn't necessarily a bad habit. It might be driven by a passion. A dark, evil, conniving, diabolical passion to get what you want and to do things your way. That's not a bad habit. That's being selfish. Ok, that is kind of a "bad" habit, but not a habit that comes from weakness, but a habit that can make you strong and powerful if you play your cards right.
Vice is the opposite of virtue. They are binary opposites.
Virtue is the doing of good, vice is the doing of evil.
1. Ahhh that clears that up.
2. Indeed it does
3. What if your "wisdom" says 'uuh I don't know, don't look at me.'
4. Mwaha...
5. Well ok something that isn't able to be calculated.. Something that can only be told not worked out?
6. So is it being evil or being weak and in need of help? and discipline?
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
17th Angel said:
Never be in the position to be asked. If anyone asks you, run!!! That would be your answer to the question.
17th Angel said:
What's mwaha?
17th Angel said:
I guess vice might be caused by weakness . . . but not always. Not if you're strong and powerful. If you're strong and powerful, your vice is your strength, not a weakness . . . Very much like the opposite in character of superman, but with the same powers. Super Evil Man. The bogeyman. You're out to destroy (mess things up for others on purpose), not to mess things up for yourself. Premeditated chaos and disorder.
17th Angel
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1. But if you are in that position you think it best to run? Not maybe say, "I have no clue what I am doing here... Help me out."
2. Nothing... Sorry.
3. Again this comes down to a persons definition of evil and their beliefs.. hmm
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
17th Angel said:
I was joking.
17th Angel
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I was joking.
Thought I'd jusk ask... You never know what some may truly believe is the best thing to do.
Sorry if I didn't reply to anyone's comments. I have little time to read during the week. But I wanted to comment on the last couple of posts. And thanks to Quahom1 and Ciel from the "Is Evil Real?" posts for a couple of these.
Knowledge is knowing something.
Wisdom is knowing what NOT to do
Courage is doing what you need to do
Example: Honesty is having the Courage to be Truthful
Courage creates Strength
Indifference is not caring if you do it or not
Fear is what keeps you from doing what you need to do
Fear creates Weakness
But sometimes Fear can keep you from doing Wrong - if you don't have Wisdom
Wickedness is WANTING to do Evil
Malice and Cruelty are "messing things up for others on purpose" or the Intent to cause Misery and Despair
Just my 2 cents.
Peace,
Kelly
Knowledge is knowing something.
Wisdom is knowing what NOT to do
Courage is doing what you need to do
Example: Honesty is having the Courage to be Truthful
Courage creates Strength
Indifference is not caring if you do it or not
Fear is what keeps you from doing what you need to do
Fear creates Weakness
But sometimes Fear can keep you from doing Wrong - if you don't have Wisdom
Wickedness is WANTING to do Evil
Malice and Cruelty are "messing things up for others on purpose" or the Intent to cause Misery and Despair
Just my 2 cents.
Peace,
Kelly
D
dr_thomas64
Guest
St Paul made some pretty fundamental changes to Christianity - at least judging by his disputes with some of the other Apostles. Which books should and shouldn't be included in the bible was debated for hundreds of years before the canon was settled and even now the Catholic vulgate differs substantially from the King James for example. I suspect that if you are only prepared to accept as Christian people who agree with you on all points, you will find yourself in a church of one.
Matt Langley
Objectivist Christian
I think one thing we often forget is the context the lessons of the bible are in. We often try to force the actions and teaching into a modern context with no translation; however, the culture and common knowledge of the time give us a different perspective on some of Jesus' lessons.
In this case it's not that Christianity is always changing, it's that we and the culture we are in is changing and we need to keep altering our views to ensure we don't see the teachings of Jesus in a view that isn't accurate.
For example, I found the context and research to customs of the time surrounding Jesus advising us to "turn the other cheek" to take on an entirely new meaning that reprsented the character and strength of Jesus much more accurate to the context of the rest of scripture. A source discussing this can be found here (http://www.30goodminutes.org/csec/sermon/wink_3707.htm).
In this case it's not that Christianity is always changing, it's that we and the culture we are in is changing and we need to keep altering our views to ensure we don't see the teachings of Jesus in a view that isn't accurate.
For example, I found the context and research to customs of the time surrounding Jesus advising us to "turn the other cheek" to take on an entirely new meaning that reprsented the character and strength of Jesus much more accurate to the context of the rest of scripture. A source discussing this can be found here (http://www.30goodminutes.org/csec/sermon/wink_3707.htm).
17th Angel
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Not sure If I have answered this one.... Why do people try to change anything? To improve it. "Improve it? But, this is teh law of god! zomg!!! It's perfect as it is because god is perfect kthx! lolz...." Well, yeah it maybe the law of god... but no, it's not perfect... Some man want's say you to pay more "donations" (just an example) He can try and bend and weave it so that is "law" and then can profit..... The priest of the church may prefer buttsecks with his boyfriend than his wife... So again... Gay priests is OK!!!
Add that rule to your list... You've seen it before folks... Dogma? Remember that word? Basically in laymen terms... Human wants and desires... Morphing some small pinch of the bible to make it religious......But everything gets bent.... People are bent
Not just christianity is changed.... Everything is manipulated by some one somewhere...
M
mee
Guest
well Jesus did sow good seed , and when people were sleeping the devil sowed weeds in amongst the wheat,and weeds and wheat look the same when they are growing up but at the harvest the difference is very clear indeed. so false teachings would be around to infect the congregations , and they have been around for many centuries and people get to believe that the weeds are real wheat when really they are counterfeit, interesting indeed . so then why do people change christianity , i think it is more like a case of ...........lets get back to the real bible teachings without the traditions of man to cloud the thought . and yes, true teachings are being made known , but people have got to believeing the false teachings and they have been misled.Kindest Regards, Dor!
Interesting question.
Of course, if we are going to be honest with this line of thought, shouldn't we carry back to the source? What was Christianity like say about 50 or 60 AD? Before the Protestant reformation, before the Catholic schisms, before the Council of Nicea that legalized the Christian faith in the pagan world of the Roman Empire, before the Gnostics and Aryans and heresies, before the destruction of the Jewish Temple at Jerusalem? What was Christianity like fresh out of the mouth of Jesus?
I don't think it was anything like it is today, in any denomination. But, that's just my opinion. My opinion doesn't count, G-d's opinion does count.
Maybe G-d forsaw all of this, and allows each of us a little leeway in accord with what we know and understand.
Or else, there's a whole lot of us in a heap of doo-doo. Pretty much everybody, I reckon, by this point in time.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Not sure If I have answered this one.... Why do people try to change anything? To improve it. "Improve it? But, this is teh law of god! zomg!!! It's perfect as it is because god is perfect kthx! lolz...." Well, yeah it maybe the law of god... but no, it's not perfect... Some man want's say you to pay more "donations" (just an example) He can try and bend and weave it so that is "law" and then can profit..... The priest of the church may prefer buttsecks with his boyfriend than his wife... So again... Gay priests is OK!!!
But everything gets bent.... People are bent
Maybe it's not really Christianity that changes, but our perception of it.
17th Angel
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In some cases... In MOST cases... No it is man that changes christianity... But then... Is it christianity? Here is a glass bowl... *Throws it on the flow and smashes it* Is that still a glass bowl? ;/ Nope, but it thas "elements" bits and peices of a glass bowl..... What am I talking about... Sorry... Listening to some strange music..
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Some 500 years there was a man named Leonardo da Vinci. He painted the Mona Lisa. The original Mona Lisa is still around for people to look at, but Leonardo da Vinci himself isn't around anymore to paint more Mona Lisa's.
Some 2,000 years ago there was a man named Jesus. He taught people the Way, the Truth and the Life. People wrote down their experiences of him in a text we now call the Bible. But Jesus himself isn't around anymore to recreate that first century experience. (Ok, in theory he is still around, living in people's hearts, but how do you define something invisible?)
People can look at the Mona Lisa painting but have no idea how Leonardo did it. People can read about Christianity but not capture its meaning or recapture the experience of those living 2,000 years ago (suppose Jesus = painter, experience of Jesus = painting).
Only Jesus can explain Christianity, but as he in theory lives in people's hearts he is invisible and not clearly discernable. So what we have is a Christianity that cannot be known except if we connect with something otherworldly. Hence what I said about our concept of Christianity being a perception rather than for what it really is.
But that depends on what you mean by "Christianity." Does one mean the theory about the experience of Jesus? Well, then, Christianity has indeed changed. But if Christianity is the experience of Jesus itself, the one 2,000 years ago, then that has not changed. You can't change the past except through time travel.
Dondi
Well-Known Member
Depends on what Jesus you are experiencing. The Mormon Jesus has you reaching for godhood, the Baptist Jesus has you having a personal relationship through Christ, the Catholic Jesus has you experiencing Jesus in the wafer of the Eucharist. I do not think they are all experiencing the same thing.
I believe that is considered a pre-supposition, based on speculation of an outside perspective...not experience.
For example, the Catholic Jesus is no different from the Baptist Jesus. Both versions lead to heaven, and are personal, intimate and real. (from experience). The Mormon view, I can't answer to, as I have no experience with it.
v/r
Joshua
edit: the difference between Baptist and Catholic views on communion, is simply symbology vs. representation. But that has nothing to do with the being called Jesus, himself.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
I think I was misunderstood there. I was referring to the experience of Jesus received by the early Christians 2,000 years ago. If that is "Christianity," then that has not changed as we can't change the past.
Assertions and claims made that an individual or a group of people have captured the true meaning of "Christianity" could be said to be claims of rediscovering that experience.
The experience of those who lived 2,000 years ago is itself etched and fixed in history, but our concept of that experience has changed.
Quite obviously, the meaning of Christianity was never preserved, not by any group of Christians. I think I can confidently claim with 99% accuracy that there is no single blood line of descendents, children and grandchildren that has successfully preserved Christianity.
So what? Are we lost forever? I think not. Jesus is our invisible friend. To rediscover Christianity one must seek something invisible. There is no "true church" on the face of the earth. The true church is invisible. We are left with the challenge of rediscovering Christianity individually.
Preserving the meaning of Christianity from one generation to the next requires that one know the agenda of the one who introduced it (Christ). We cannot possibly know that agenda until we find that person. But even after rediscovering Christianity we cannot take Christianity back into the world (make it visible). Any attempt to do so will be fruitless and we will only succeed in bringing out and revealing a distorted picture of Christianity.
The best we can do is lead others to that person. He alone holds the key. Nobody can possess the key that he holds.
If I was, therefore, to state what Christianity was about, I would say that Christianity is about who holds the key.
Of course, being able to say that does not mean that I have the key. Being able to explain what Christianity means does not mean you hold the key. Rather, it means you know how to find the person who holds the key.
Legendary stuff? eh? I think Jesus is a legend (pun intended).
M
mee
Guest
YES , Jesus teachings do not change , but satan makes up all sorts of teachings , he is the GREAT MISLEADER.Maybe it's not really Christianity that changes, but our perception of it.