Why do people try to change Christianity?

juantoo3 said:
Because we are not water. If we were water, what you say would hold merit. But we are not. If we trust the combination of wind and water, then what protects us from the waterfalls, whirlpools, hurricanes and tsunamis? Our own common sense and good judgement, a bit of guardian angel watching over us, and a good boat with a rudder to steer it with (or a solid foundation underneath us). Not much sense, or wisdom, in being up a creek without a paddle... And while I have heard the adage of "going with the flow" or "let go, let G-d," I have issues with that line of thought. Perhaps it works for others, the more trusting lot. It doesn't work for me, I have to steer my path as Spirit leads, even if that means tacking against the tide and the wind... :D
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How does that good boat and rudder hold up agains't hurricanes and tsuanmis? :) anyway time to go home...
 
Prober said:
P.S. Eve was to be pained in labor once a year or so. Adam had pain every day (in tilling, etc)...
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OK, so the moral is that if you're gonna get into something you shouldn't, you should first get an accomplice, do the deed first and then let them get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? You get punished, but they get punished more, even though you got them into it???
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Cage!

As noted by others, it seems you have come a long way since last we spoke. I am happy for you!
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Thank you juantoo, I feel not only happy, but I feel a overwhelming peace within myself now. It's quite amazing considering I have been fighting against God for years...


You have an interesting take on things here. I'm not fully certain I agree with equating citizenship with "belonging to" a religion, although I certainly see the similarities. And there is the historic interaction between government and religious institutions. Something seems to me missing in this assessment...and be darned if I can put a finger on it just now.
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I thought the shoe fit quite nicely, but that's only my opinion.

I don't know that I would call humanity an "evil breed," I really don't think we are by and large. If anything, I am thinking we are kinda neutral with potential to go either way, depending on our free-will and internal desires. Like any good hedonist, we seek those things that cause us joy, love, and happiness...even at the expense of health and possibly even salvation. One need only look to Adam following Eve's lead in partaking of the "apple."

We all, Christians and non-Christians alike, intuitively seek that which we innately understand as "good." Now, what you perceive as good may differ somewhat from what I perceive as good, but we both seek "good" just the same. Where we seem "evil" is when we deliberately go against what we are trained to perceive as good. And we all do, from time to time, and in greater and lesser degrees. Yet, how does someone justify to themselves as being good when acting evil.
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I can agree with most of this, juantoo; we do embrace the good, but then we divide the good, and embrace the bad also. Evil is relative, and I'm still working on what I believe morally. My 'rock' or foundation is the love of God, and from that, will my views move forward.

Now, I know the Nazi's seem to catch hell for every bad example like this, but I will go here again because it is a fitting example: Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death. Now, post WWII and the Allied victory, this man is guilty of heinous war crimes, and rightly a pariah. Yet, to place him in context, and considering the important contributions this man made to Human Anatomy, specifically the mapping of the Human brain, seems to place him in a bit different light, depending on perspective. Yes, he butchered many hundreds, perhaps thousands of human beings. Yet, his contributions to science are with us to this day, and are drawn upon by millions of doctors the world over, without which our understanding of the brain would be decades behind where it is now.

So it really comes down to perception, particularly the perception of the victor. We are all sinners, yet we all strive to be saints. Some of us do better at it than others, but a big part of the whole judgemental shooting match is perception.

At least that's my (probably heretical) take on the matter.
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I think science can be a great bennefit to our species, and like everything else good can certainly follow the bad.

You hit the nail on the head when you say perception, but take into account the perception of the fallen. Not all strive to be saints; I don't. I merely strive to live in the Love God showed me, and attempt to share that Love with others...


Much Love,
 
juantoo3 said:
OK, so the moral is that if you're gonna get into something you shouldn't, you should first get an accomplice, do the deed first and then let them get caught with their hand in the cookie jar? You get punished, but they get punished more, even though you got them into it???
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:D
 
17th Angel said:
I have seen there are more than one path... What is the purpose of a path? To get from here to there... There are many places... many "there's" And there surpisingly isn't too much difference between them.....

Then in your opinion it is glad you are taking what seems right for you.

I know I am free to disagree, as you are free to disagree with me, choice is wonderful isn't it... I too do not judge you.
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I Love you...
 
juantoo3 said:
That's just it, though. Many are searching the scriptures and interpreting what resonates as truth. They are leaving behind those things that don't jibe with their understanding, or that contradict what they wish to believe. We all have what Jesus declared, and almost two thousand years later, we are still arguing over what He said with no end in sight. And none of us is worthy to speak for the spirit of G-d.

There are many who are becoming editors of the Bible, with a desired purpose or political motivation behind their agenda. One could say this even of the KJV, but at least that was a committee of 75 religious scholars. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry feels entitled to translate the text as they see fit, and impose that translation on others.


You are correct, love is not complicated, and neither is the Bible. When one gets done sifting through the Bible, they will actually find it reinforces itself. What contradictions there seem to be, are there for a purpose. So, "sifting" should leave the text intact, even where there are verses that sting to the core and to the marrow.
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No, I don't think the Bible should be changed...Is that what we're disscusing here? I thought we were taliking about Christianity, and how some are changing it. My views come strictly from the Bible, but I doubt the attributes given to God in the OT were/are accurate at all. If God is what Jesus, and his deciples claimed him to be then the OT view of him is an error, but maybe needed to 'sift' and dicern from one mindset to another...


Much Love,
 
Cage said:
No, I don't think the Bible should be changed...Is that what we're disscusing here? I thought we were taliking about Christianity, and how some are changing it. My views come strictly from the Bible, but I doubt the attributes given to God in the OT were/are accurate at all. If God is what Jesus, and his deciples claimed him to be then the OT view of him is an error, but maybe needed to 'sift' and dicern from one mindset to another...


Much Love,
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conviently you do not like parts of God. Sorry all god is great and perfect and he has never changed. The OT version is same as NT version same God
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oh my goodness.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I have found that people who are new to the faith spend a lot of time in the NT and believe that the OT reveals a negative side to the god that is shown in the NT... its very untrue and I strongly urge any and all to read the bible all the way through and read it as a whole rather than take parts from here and there. The bible is a history book of the creation of the universe and forward. Its awesome to see God totally in His word.
 
Faithfulservant said:
oh my goodness.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I have found that people who are new to the faith spend a lot of time in the NT and believe that the OT reveals a negative side to the god that is shown in the NT... its very untrue and I strongly urge any and all to read the bible all the way through and read it as a whole rather than take parts from here and there. The bible is a history book of the creation of the universe and forward. Its awesome to see God totally in His word.
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Yep.
 
It's awsome to see God in the light of Love. This is the light in which Jesus, and his deciples presented him. If we are to find that light, we must also be removed from the darkness when that light is ready to manifest in us.



Matthew 13:24-30

24. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.



We are the field; the good seed is the Love of God; the tares are the darkness of our hearts. Both spring up together, but once the love of God manifests itself within, it is time for harvest, and the reapers take away the tares, and the fruit of the Love of God is then gathered into his bosom.


Much Love,
 
Cage said:
Matthew 13:24-30

24. Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25. But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28. He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29. But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

We are the field; the good seed is the Love of God; the tares are the darkness of our hearts. Both spring up together, but once the love of God manifests itself within, it is time for harvest, and the reapers take away the tares, and the fruit of the Love of God is then gathered into his bosom.
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Yes, but there is an alternate interpretation of this parable...The tares are the "seed" of Cain, the wheat are the "seed" of righteous Able. I will leave it to a discerning reader to carry the understanding to a deeper level.
 
Any interpretation could be accurate for all we know, and I encourage a person to take a deeper look into all parables. That's what they are for, imo...

Cain and Able have always intriqued me, and now I think I understand why. [Faith]


juantoo, you have a very sharp understanding of things, imo. Much Love to you...
 
Cage said:
Was Seth of the seed of Cain?
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Lol, I should have read before I posted; Seth was Adams son...

Juantoo, how did you mix up Cain and Seth, and how does Seth's seed play into that parable? I don't think I've heard that interpretation. Even so, you have a sharp understanding of things...


Much Love,
 
17th Angel said:
I thought I would chuck this into the debate.....

"What is wisdom? It has little to do with beliefs. These change year by year from person to person. Only one who does not dare give up beliefs because he has no wisdom will insist that others believe as he does. Cleverness learns something, but wisdom gives up some certainty every day."
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Spirituality for Christians in simple terms:

Knowledge is knowing something.
Wisdom is knowing what to do.
Virtue is doing it.

Ignorance is not knowing something.
Foolishness is not knowing what to do.

Wickedness is/are the act(s) and knowledge of evil.
Vice is doing it.

All self-explanatory.:)

juantoo3 said:
True. Yet, without a rudder, paddle, keel and helm, one is at the mercy of the wind and tides. While I understand the wisdom in not being certain, of one thing I am most certain...without a foundation, all the rest is subject to structural failure.
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I suppose both approaches to spirituality in Christianity have pitfalls.

Over-emphasis on structure leads to shallow spirituality.

The story of the Tower of Babel, where people tried build something that could reach the heavens, is that you can't reach God by building structures, whether it's with physical structures, or technical concepts.

Lack of a foundation also makes our attempts to connect with God futile. That's why we have Christ -- the capstone of God's spiritual temple.

The idea, I guess, is not to technicalise our spiritual journey, nor to "go it alone" and try to reach God by our own power. God has already laid the First Stone. Everyone else connects with God through that First Stone.

As you come to him, the living Stone -- rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him -- you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:4-6
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Concerning "spiritual sacrifices," in the past people performed rituals -- ceremonies representing spiritual concepts in a physical temple. In Christianity, the need to perform rituals in the Temple has not disappeared. Life is about rituals. Everything we do that involves emotions, feelings, desires and motivations, or relationships, are rituals. In the past the rituals we performed were merely ceremonial, and not always personal. But the Temple in which we work is now a spiritual one. The rituals have gone from being physical/ceremonial/impersonal to spiritual/personal.
 
Saltmeister said:
Spirituality for Christians in simple terms:

Knowledge is knowing something.
Wisdom is knowing what to do.
Virtue is doing it.

Ignorance is not knowing something.
Foolishness is not knowing what to do.

Wickedness is/are the act(s) and knowledge of evil.
Vice is doing it.

All self-explanatory.:)
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So to have knowledge is to know something..... Not an understanding of a certain topic/subject... "I have two legs..." I have much knowledge then.

Wisdom, to know what to do... All the time?

Vitrue is doing what?

Ignorance... Isn't that knowing something but -ignoring- what you know?
Foolishness... Not knowing what to do? Saltmeister... Give me the square root for 7,543,872,103....... You cannot? So you are a fool?

To have knowledge of evil is to be evil?

Vice... Isn't that a bad habit? Habits can be changed..
 
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