wy do people think jesus was god

[JosephM]

Adhere to your own advice...Joseph.

Are you speaking of comments elsewhere as I am playing by your guidelines here on this thread. Does that offend you or seem to corner you in that I am using the writings you profess to believe to reason with you?

Peace,
JM

 

[Cage]

I wonder if it really matters if a person believes Jesus is God or not? The following came to mind as I was reading this thread. Any thoughts on what he's 'actually' saying here? It sounds to me like those who speak against Jesus will be forgiven...

Matthew 12:32-34

32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Much Love,

 

[JosephM]

Hi Cage,

Your quotation speaks of the 'Son of man' as different than the Holy Ghost which seems to me to confirm suspicions that Jesus as Son of man was not claiming himself as God. That divinity was manifested in him of course is not an issue in this thread but only the statement that Jesus is God. Your reference seems to be one of many that Jesus himself is recorded as speaking that point otherwise than to the conclusion that Jesus is God anymore than anyone else.

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Cage]

Love in Christ,

 

[Prober]

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Matthew 4:7 (when Jesus himself was being tempted by Satan)

 

[Cage]

Does it matter if people believe this, though?

If not, why do many people squabble about it? Must you beilieve Jesus was God to know God? What about the following?

Matthew 4:8-10

8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

If you are saying Jesus is God's equal, why then would Jesus feel need to serve God? Unless he is simply serving himself, which makes no sense to me because of this:

Luke 22:42

42. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


As you can see, the whole trinity concept is alien to me, and I appologize if you find my questions ignorant...


Much Love,

 

[lunamoth]

Just a brief thought one what you say about the Trinity here Cage.

I am part of my marriage, my marriage would not exist without me (and my spouse), and I can serve my marriage (honor, faith, trust, love).

I compare the Trinity God to marriage.

2 c,
luna

 

[Prober]

Does it matter if people believe this, though?

If not, why do many people squabble about it? Must you beilieve Jesus was God to know God? What about the following?

Matthew 4:8-10

8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

If you are saying Jesus is God's equal, why then would Jesus feel need to serve God? Unless he is simply serving himself, which makes no sense to me because of this:

Luke 22:42

42. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


As you can see, the whole trinity concept is alien to me, and I appologize if you find my questions ignorant...


Much Love,

Jesus was reminding Satan that he (Satan) very well knew that no one was to be worshipped but God. Jesus (the human part) would need to serve God, too.

 

[Cage]

I've been sitting here for thirty minutes trying thinking, trying to understand how Jesus could be God, and respond, but I am at a loss for words for some reason. I've got to give this a great deal more thought.

Thanks, and...


Much Love,

 

[Prober]

Does it matter if people believe this, though?

If not, why do many people squabble about it? Must you beilieve Jesus was God to know God? What about the following?

Much Love,

I think a Christian needs to believe in Christ's divinity. I have no idea why Christians would doubt it.

That being said, I don't believe a person needs to believe in Jesus to know God, but I do believe it's the best way (what a great example!).

"Many sheep have I..."

I believe that there will be people of many faiths, including some faiths that don't believe in Jesus, in Heaven.

They would all have to believe in the one true god, of course.

For me, since nothing Jesus did or said detracts from knowing or believing in God, I have no problem believing in Jesus' divinity.

For me, it's perfectly clear and laid out - from Genesis through Revelation!

 

[Cage]

Jesus was reminding Satan that he (Satan) very well knew that no one was to be worshipped but God. Jesus (the human part) would need to serve God, too.

Prober, I understand this part now, if Jesus was infact God. Still, I have a question: Does it matter if you believe it?

Thanks, and...


Much Love,

edit: I got your answer in previous post; I must have missed it, sorry...

 

[Prober]

I almost converted to Islam over this question.

 

[pattimax]

Fair enough, pattimax...we all share different views, and that is one of the things that makes the Bible so intriguing.

I'd Love to continue this discussion, as we obviously share different systems of belief. Only, do not expect me to debate with you, for I will not. We can share our views, and listen, and that should suffice.


Much Love,

That is fine.
What is it specifically that you find opposed to truth in the bible?

And
You do realize that all spirits mentioned in the bible are not the holy spirit? This is where you should use your powers of discernment.

17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:17-18

Obviously your helmet is firmly in place, but your sword is questionable. You have the grip, but no blade.

 

[JosephM]

Does it matter if people believe this, though?

If not, why do many people squabble about it? Must you believe Jesus was God to know God? What about the following?

(snip)

Much Love,

Hello Cage,

I think you bring up an excellent point. The problem is that most but not all Christian churches require this statement of belief to be called a Christian. The Nicene creed specifies it specifically. In my view if Jesus required it, he would not have beat around the bush and called himself the Son of man, the son of God, a servant of God and many of the other things he said. Trinity doctrines are difficult for many to understand and my personal experience is that an understanding is not required for the new birth experience. (born again) People were first called Christians (Christ-like) in Antioch (Acts 11:26) There wasn't even a formal NT existing at the time. In my view, it is more a doctrine of man than anything else and wasn't required to be called a Christian in those days.

Love in Christ,
JM

 

[Cage]

That is fine.
What is it specifically that you find opposed to truth in the bible?

And
You do realize that all spirits mentioned in the bible are not the holy spirit? This is where you should use your powers of discernment.

17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
Ephesians 6:17-18

Obviously your helmet is firmly in place, but your sword is questionable. You have the grip, but no blade.

Hi, pattimax...

I don't want to point out specifics, but I have my doubts about the wrath, fierce anger, and jealousy of my God. I must admit that I haven't ventured into the OT much in recent days, and I am a bit biased. What God has shown me is in stark contrast to these attributes, so yes, I have my doubts.

Then, who knows the mind of God? Not me, but I feel like I know the mind of Christ, as he was the Word in which I recieved. Jesus was not a wrathful man, nor was he jealous; he showed anger, but his anger was mild and brief.

If I am to follow him, I must also do my best to be like him, and do as he did, which was spread the Love of God. These are my views, pattimax, and I see no error in Gods Love. I do not attempt to correct a persons error, as Love has the ability to do this on its own. I have my own problems to fix...

So, I am wondering about the 'blade' of the spirit that you say I lack...

Sure, there many spirits mentioned in the Bible, but only one is Holy as far as I can see. Then my sight could be narrow, as I have not willingly embraced other spirits. Am I denying myself the fulness of God? I don't seek to be like God, but like his Son...Meek, humble, gentle, and Loving. This is the Gospel of Christ, and this is what I chose to embrace. I think this is the will of God...that we [mankind] embrace this.

Does this make me foolish, that I choose to see God in such a light? (The same light that I see my savior)

I obviously don't see everything the same way most Christians see them, but does that make me wrong? We all live in some error, pattimax. This is the human condition, but will that error cause me to fail God?


Much Love,

 

[Cage]

Hello Cage,

I think you bring up an excellent point. The problem is that most but not all Christian churches require this statement of belief to be called a Christian. The Nicene creed specifies it specifically. In my view if Jesus required it, he would not have beat around the bush and called himself the Son of man, the son of God, a servant of God and many of the other things he said. Trinity doctrines are difficult for many to understand and my personal experience is that an understanding is not required for the new birth experience. (born again) People were first called Christians (Christ-like) in Antioch (Acts 11:26) There wasn't even a formal NT existing at the time. In my view, it is more a doctrine of man than anything else and wasn't required to be called a Christian in those days.

Love in Christ,
JM

Thank you Joseph, I feel the same way. I would sometimes stumble when this view was thrown at me; particularly when they suggested that I must believe this to be 'saved'. I feel I know what salvation is now, and these views somehow seem to distort my own. I shouldn't let this happen, but I am new in Christ, and have not yet come to a pure completion.


Much Love,

 

[Dor]

Hi, pattimax...

I don't want to point out specifics, but I have my doubts about the wrath, fierce anger, and jealousy of my God. I must admit that I haven't ventured into the OT much in recent days, and I am a bit biased. What God has shown me is in stark contrast to these attributes, so yes, I have my doubts.

Then, who knows the mind of God? Not me, but I feel like I know the mind of Christ, as he was the Word in which I recieved. Jesus was not a wrathful man, nor was he jealous; he showed anger, but his anger was mild and brief.

If I am to follow him, I must also do my best to be like him, and do as he did, which was spread the Love of God. These are my views, pattimax, and I see no error in Gods Love. I do not attempt to correct a persons error, as Love has the ability to do this on its own. I have my own problems to fix...

So, I am wondering about the 'blade' of the spirit that you say I lack...

Sure, there many spirits mentioned in the Bible, but only one is Holy as far as I can see. Then my sight could be narrow, as I have not willingly embraced other spirits. Am I denying myself the fulness of God? I don't seek to be like God, but like his Son...Meek, humble, gentle, and Loving. This is the Gospel of Christ, and this is what I chose to embrace. I think this is the will of God...that we [mankind] embrace this.

Does this make me foolish, that I choose to see God in such a light? (The same light that I see my savior)

I obviously don't see everything the same way most Christians see them, but does that make me wrong? We all live in some error, pattimax. This is the human condition, but will that error cause me to fail God?


Much Love,

Check out all the verses about the second coming of Christ in the NT and tell me about his wrath and anger.

 

[Dor]

It is very easy Cage or JosephM or Wil or anyone.
Can you raise the dead?
Can you forgive sins?
Did you create everything?
Can you heal the blind, the sick?
Cast out demons, turn water to wine?
among many other things?

No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!

 

[JosephM]

It is very easy Cage or JosephM or Wil or anyone.
Can you raise the dead?
Can you forgive sins?
Did you create everything?
Can you heal the blind, the sick?
Cast out demons, turn water to wine?
among many other things?

No and Jesus could not have either if he was just a man!

Actually Dor,

If you are born of the spirit you are no only man but also a son of God.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And if you realized your authority in God you could at least forgive sins, heal the blind and sick, cast out demons and raise the dead among other things. These all can be found in your NT as things you can do if you had the faith.
Also read this....
John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Love in Christ,
JM

PS It would be nice if you would not be so quick to answer No for other people to questions you asked of other people before they have a chance to answer.

 

[shadowman]

wow god can turn water into wine!