The Trinity of Christianity

[Marietta]

Greetings Kenod,
Anger is always destructive. No good ever comes from anger. If held in it causes sickness and unresolved anger eats away at a person eventually causing cancer.

Please give me an example in which you think anger brings about good.

Thank You, Midge

 

[Marietta]

Quahom1, Please explain what kind of a bridge anger builds?
Midge

 

[Quahom1]

Quahom1, Please explain what kind of a bridge anger builds?
Midge

An example: In boot camp, during "lizard patrol" (a week of survival training), the DI (drill instructor), had it out for one of the recruits. For six weeks he ragged on this guy (southern boy from South Carolina, about 6' 3" and 250 lbs, and redneck attitude), and intended to teach this kid a lesson. During "lizard patrol", the DI made it a point to "punish the company" everytime the "redneck" screwed up, or fell behind. If we failed surviving "lizard patrol week", then we all would have to start boot camp all over again (which now made the company of 65 bring pressure to bear on "redneck"). Of course "redneck" was getting angrier, and more depressed, and full of self-pity, so now we had to pull his load and deal with his emotional and psychological rebellion, plus we began to ostrisize him (not the right thing to do when survival is the issue).

Anyway, towards the end of the week, we were brought under fire (simulated battle with smoke grenades and a machine guns blazing away, at night, during the rainy early spring). We each carried 80 lbs knapsacks that we were ordered not to remove during the last few miles to base. We were coming to the last half mile to base, when we came to a ditch with 10 feet of water. There was a foot bridge made of wood, but the middle of it was missing. Normally we could jump the gap, but not with the weight of our knapsacks on our backs, and we couldn't remove them, nor could we fjord the ditches water (too deep), and we could not go around (the "enemy" was closing in behind us).

We were tired, frustrated and beat, and then "Redneck" came up the the front to see WTF was going on.

He was the angriest of us all. He began a stream of cussing and didn't care who heard him, then...he stopped.

He walked up to the end of the broken bridge, turned, looked at us and said, "I got an f'n idea". Then he loosened his knapsack straps, and wrapped one strap around his wrist...then he threw his knapsack over to the otherside (the strap still wrapped around his wrist). Then he literally ripped a plank away from its seating which created a three inch gap between two other planks at the end of bridge portrusion.

Then he told us what to do. He said, "Two of you stay on this side, and three of you on the other side, one sits on my knapsack. I'm gonna straddle the gap... two push one across and the other two pull one across. Make sure they step on the back of my calves, and on my shoulders, but don't step in the middle of my back, and DON'T LET GO OF MY F'N KNAPSACK."

And the next thing we knew, he hooked an ankle into the plank gap and splayed across the divide of the bridge, catching the other side with his hands. We were amazed at what he wanted us to do, but his cussing got us moving, and we sent three of the biggest guys over first, and kept two behind like he said.

For the next three minutes or so (it felt like hours), one by one our company crossed the "bridge", until one was left, and the "redneck".

By the time I went to cross, the "bridge" was slick with mud and rain soaked, and was sagging like a 30 year old plow horse. My foot hit the back of his legs, and proceeded to kick out behind me, and I landed prone and full weight on top of him. The next thing we both knew, we were hanging over the ditch with my arms over his shoulders. The company "receivers" grabbed me by my knapsack and pulled me up over the side. But "redneck" had had too much, and let go. Now he was hanging by the strap wrapped around his wrist, and was too damn tired to pull himself up. On top of that, his weight caused him to drop by three feet, from the edge of the bridge (jerking knapsack and shipmate along with it).

We didn't heroically lift him in dignity to his feet...No, we dragged him through the ditch to the side of the bridge footings and dragged him up the embankment. Then we carried him back to base, while someone elsed carried his knapsack (still attached to his wrist). His foot was a mess (severely strained), and he had "rope burn" to his wrist.

When we arrived at the barracks, we got the OOD (Officer of the Day) and he called for medical support. He kept looking at all of us in the strangest way. And then the DIs pulled up in jeeps, and they were royally ticked off...

"What the hell are you people doing here?" We carried out our orders, we said. "HOW in the F did you get across the ditch?" We told them. "Bull sh*t..." one said in disgust. Then our DI walked up, "No, that is what HE did." was his quiet response. Then he addressed "redneck". "You removed your knapsack..." (but it was a respectful and quiet tone).

Lifting his arm, "Redneck" grinned and said, "still attached to me, never left my possesion, SIR!" The DI nodded at the "spirit" of the law being kept, while still accomplishing the mission (which we later found out was never done successfuly before, as it wasn't supposed to be something to be accomplished at all).

...remember, we came in at the tail end of Vietnam...winning wasn't exactly a strong suite in the American psychy...

But we were a new generation of military, and popular shows like "McGuiver" and "Six million dollar man" were the choice of pallet for the "youngins" wanting to put on the uniform of our country.

Your "bridge from anger" example, as per your request...

v/r

Q

 

[kenod]

Greetings Kenod,
Anger is always destructive. No good ever comes from anger. If held in it causes sickness and unresolved anger eats away at a person eventually causing cancer.

Please give me an example in which you think anger brings about good.

Thank You, Midge

I disagree with your first two statements, but I do agree with your third.

Recently my 92 year old mother who is cared for in a nursing home, was being moved in a hoist as she cannot walk. She was dropped and now has four fractures in her legs. I was angry that such a situation should have occured so I set about to find out why, and to make sure it does not happen again. Already, staff training has been implemented, and procedures changed. I do not hold any anger towards those who were responsible for the accident. I thank God that I am able to honestly say that I forgive them. My anger was directed at the situation, and now that improvements have occured, my feelings have subsided.

I think your comment about anger being held in and causing physical and emotional problems is correct. I'm sure this is refelcted in Paul's statement in Ephesians 4:26

"Be ye angry, and sin not:
let not the sun go down upon your wrath"


​

 

[Quahom1]

I disagree with your first two statements, but I do agree with your third.

Recently my 92 year old mother who is cared for in a nursing home, was being moved in a hoist as she cannot walk. She was dropped and now has four fractures in her legs. I was angry that such a situation should have occured so I set about to find out why, and to make sure it does not happen again. Already, staff training has been implemented, and procedures changed. I do not hold any anger towards those who were responsible for the accident. I thank God that I am able to honestly say that I forgive them. My anger was directed at the situation, and now that improvements have occured, my feelings have subsided.

I think your comment about anger being held in and causing physical and emotional problems is correct. I'm sure this is refelcted in Paul's statement in Ephesians 4:26

"Be ye angry, and sin not:
let not the sun go down upon your wrath"



​

Which means: "Do something about it." Do not stew on the issue, but do something to rectify. And be quick before the anger overtakes reason. Anger, must be channeled by reason and determination, or else it will eat one alive.

Unlike other emotions, anger is a soul draining one, while physically empowering one (to a point). It is not a rejuvinating emotion, but one that when focused, can bring to bear the collective energy within one to a single point.

Even Jesus warned us about anger, and the use of anger for a purpose. Where? He told Judas (who was very angry with Jesus), "whatsovever you do, do quickly"...(e.g. carry out your mission, while your anger is focussed), lest you become but a lamenting ranter, with no solutions or goals.

v/r

Q

 

[kenod]

Unlike other emotions, anger is a soul draining one, while physically empowering one (to a point). It is not a rejuvinating emotion, but one that when focused, can bring to bear the collective energy within one to a single point.
v/r
Q

Yes, I think it is the energy that anger arouses that gives us the momentum to affect change. One cannot live at that level of emotional arousal all the time.

I believe that every emotion was given to us by God, and can be used for good, or it can be perverted. Unresolved anger is the problem, not anger itself.

 

[Quahom1]

Yes, I think it is the energy that anger arouses that gives us the momentum to affect change. One cannot live at that level of emotional arousal all the time.

I believe that every emotion was given to us by God, and can be used for good, or it can be perverted. Unresolved anger is the problem, not anger itself.

In total agreement...

lol, still want me to speak before your congregation? ...

 

[wil]

lol I've gotta lotta love for you Q, and your ability to turn a phrase. You gotta book in ya, don't waste it! From what I've read the Gman and plenty others will grace the back cover with praises...

 

[Quahom1]

lol I've gotta lotta love for you Q, and your ability to turn a phrase. You gotta book in ya, don't waste it! From what I've read the Gman and plenty others will grace the back cover with praises...

Yes, I've been told...it's a nasty habit of mine, pisses lots of people off too...problem is, I'm not aware that I'm doing it, when I do it, until after I do it, then told - I did it...

eh, what is it I did again?

 

[taijasi]

I disagree with your first two statements, but I do agree with your third.

Recently my 92 year old mother who is cared for in a nursing home, was being moved in a hoist as she cannot walk. She was dropped and now has four fractures in her legs. I was angry that such a situation should have occured so I set about to find out why, and to make sure it does not happen again. Already, staff training has been implemented, and procedures changed. I do not hold any anger towards those who were responsible for the accident. I thank God that I am able to honestly say that I forgive them. My anger was directed at the situation, and now that improvements have occured, my feelings have subsided.

Kenod, it was not your anger that motivated you ... but your Love. Love is not passive, anger is not constructive. One of these produces negative results, the other positive. At best, your body benefitted from the adrenaline that helped you to take certain steps. And Love, was the purifier that washed your emotions free - of the poison.

Not anger, but Love ...

Namaskar,

taijasa

 

[Quahom1]

Kenod, it was not your anger that motivated you ... but your Love. Love is not passive, anger is not constructive. One of these produces negative results, the other positive. At best, your body benefitted from the adrenaline that helped you to take certain steps. And Love, was the purifier that washed your emotions free - of the poison.

Not anger, but Love ...

Namaskar,

taijasa

Anger is an emotion. Love is a decision. Anger can be focussed by love to arrive at a decisive conclusion. He didn't make the error my friend...

v/r

Q

...do you understand what I am trying to point out? eternal vs. fleeting...consider.

 

[taijasi]

Anger is an emotion. Love is a decision. Anger can be focussed by love to arrive at a decisive conclusion. He didn't make the error my friend...

v/r

Q

...do you understand what I am trying to point out? eternal vs. fleeting...consider.

Sure, anger is a fleeting thing. There is nothing positive about it, except, that we can potentially use it to learn a lesson. But anger is not the lesson. LOVE is. I believe you said that ...

 

[Quahom1]

Sure, anger is a fleeting thing. There is nothing positive about it, except, that we can potentially use it to learn a lesson. But anger is not the lesson. LOVE is. I believe you said that ...

anger is the drive behind the love, I also said that. And Taij, bless your heart, you missed the entire point of this debate. Maybe, because you never experience the kind of anger I (or others) are talking about.

I don't know. But I fail to see the continuation of this cat and mouse game you wish to apparently play.

I said my piece. Let those who understand, consider, and those who don't, forget about it...

 

[kenod]

Kenod, it was not your anger that motivated you ... but your Love. Love is not passive, anger is not constructive. One of these produces negative results, the other positive. At best, your body benefitted from the adrenaline that helped you to take certain steps. And Love, was the purifier that washed your emotions free - of the poison.
Not anger, but Love ...
Namaskar,
taijasa

Well, thank you for explaining my feelings to me

As I see it, there are no negative emotions ... even hate. It is all about how we control and direct our feelings.
Don't deny your anger - acknowledge it and harness it.

The fact is we are all individuals and respond differently - my wife, for instance, is a very placid person and does not experience extreme emotional highs and lows ... just as well coz she has to put up with me!

btw, it doesn't sound very "New-Agey" to me to be saying feelings are bad ... my NA inclined daughter would not at all like you saying that

For me, the basis of this discussion is what does the Bible say, and it seems obvious to me that there is Scriptural support for the positive expression of anger and hate.

 

[taijasi]

Lol, well - as you say, Q, God Bless that poor, misguided man, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who is so terribly confused and misinformed as to what are and aren't helpful, healthy emotions. I borrow many of my views, and understandings, from his books Healing Anger, and Healing Emotions .... and THANK GOD I ran into you, Q & Kenod!!!

What WOULD I have ever done without you!?!

I mean, until you two kindly, angry gentlemen managed to put the fear of God into me, and bring me back from my pagan, misguided ways ... I was all ready here to believe that anger was a bad thing. AND, thank you also, Kenod, for getting me away from that terrible, new agey thinking - and then reminding me, also, that I had it all wrong to begin with. Boy, I'll tell ya, I don't know how I managed to get it so confused.

But don't worry, with you two gents here to enlighten, guide & rescue me from the depths of ignorance (and esentially, ANYthing that doesn't fit squarely into your Christian programming) ... I'm SURE I can't go wrong again. Unless, heaven forbid, I should DARE to think differently. Now now, we don't need that. That just screws things ALL up.

Look Q, if you wanna cop an attitude, start condescending, and behave like a general JERK, then coat it over with some cock 'n bull "I'm a good christian, saved and seated at the right hand of the Father's heavenly table ahead of you" crap ... then please, do go right ahead. Frankly, I don't give a damn about your military heroism, your high 'n mighty American ideals, and ANYthing that you've come to embrace - however holy & sacred - that sits down in there, somewhere, telling you you're BETTER than anyone else. Get over it.

Feel that? Yeah buddy. That's anger. Now DO something with it. Prove to me ... that you can walk on water. Christ could. Whatsamatter? Not there yet?

Oh. I see. Then I guess I'm in the same company I thought I was, after all. Ever heard the expression, Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining?

Well then. Don't.

How many fights have you ever walked from? Anger is that little thing, along with pride, that won't let you. And there's a reason why Catholicism teaches that each of these, is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Those antidotes, the Seven Cardinal Virtues, they mean something too. Or is all that ... just some theologian somewhere, whistlin' Dixie.

YOU TELL ME.

If I get angry, provoked or otherwise ... I know what to do with it. I can FEEL the toxins. My heart tells me, that it isn't healthy.

I sure don't need either of you fine fellas, or even the Dalai Lama in any of his books, to enlighten me about it ... although at least I know HH won't distort the facts.

What was your point? That anger can be a motivator? Ah well, I agree with that. It CAN be transformed into something better. And yes, it IS an emotion ... but an unhealthy one. Want proof? Just keep living with it. In it. Giving expression to it. Watch your physical health, your mental health, your emotional health ... deteriorate.

No DOCTOR has to tell you that, for $100 a minute, in this glorious, enlightened country of ours (everyone knows, doctors are gods around here). Common sense should. Experience should.

As for new age notions that all feelings are good, I have NO idea where you come up with that, Kenod. All emotions are part of the human experience. That much is true. And they CAN, each and every one of them, be OFLAGs - Opportunities For Learning And Growth. [Edit: okay, i do realize that many new-agey people say, "everything is meant to happen, nothing can be out of place, etc." - but I think that's a lot of BS. One cannot JUSTIFY wrong action, or poor choices, by saying, oh, on some level I MEANT to do that. Rationalizing things to fit one's behavior, new agey or otherwise, is still just rationalization.]

But if you think being angry, beats being (in) Love/Loving ... then I think somewhere the new age message got screwed around. Sorry, don't know what happened.

2nd Aspect of Trinity: LOVE
3rd Aspect of Trinity: the Spiritualizing Presence both operative in - and responsible for - the material world

Until we can live in this world, under the guidance of the 2nd Aspect, without reacting (you know, knee-jerk style), and without giving in to emotions such as anger, hate, and envy ... we are still crucified (and crucifying, the Christ within), rather than Resurrected. St. Paul died daily, by NOT giving in to the urge to get angry, or yielding to his emotional nature.

Emotions aren't bad, just as the thoughts of our mortal minds aren't bad. Nor is the flesh, the material nature. That's manicheism. That's a certain form of Gnosticism. But people fail to distinguish allegory, from literalism. There's a message, and I'm afraid it's been thoroughly misinterpreted.

As I see it, no religion has yet gotten it right. But for those who feel called to Christ's message, more power to them ... WHEN that power, empowers the Love. Otherwise, better to keep questioning, and following whatever path seems to resonate. Good is done, and God is served, in OTHER names than Christ Jesus. If a wo/man can't, or refuses to see and acknowledge that ... God help him/her.

Did I miss your point? I don't think so. Did I not make a small handful of points? I don't know, and I don't care. I've said what was on my mind, in my heart ... and came to me. I DO value the freedom, and the forum, by and in which this can take place!

Namaskar,

taijasa

 

[kenod]

Boy, I'll tell ya, I don't know how I managed to get it so confused.

I don't know either

Anger over petty personal matters is just immaturity.

Christian anger is to do with injustice and the welfare of others.

 

[Marietta]

Hello Q, I understand where you are coming from now.

Boot camp is intended to create mind control alters. They use sleep depravation along with long hours of excessive exercise and Yes, ANGER. Anger is used in every form of mind control especially Monarch mind control.

With a clear mind without all the anger you should have been able to come upon the same or better way of crossing the ditch. Anger clouds the mind.


However what happened with the redneck (as you call him), was that his mind had reached a point of compartmentalization from trauma based mind control which gave him the ability to think with pinpoint accuracy to figure out how to cross the bridge. Once compartmentalization has occurred each portion of the mind thinks independently of the other and no compartment knows what the other has done or is about to do. What ever compartment is brought forward will act out its purpose and then another portion will come forward afterwards so the person will not remember what the other compartment had done if to traumatic to recall. Without this kind of mind control the average human being could never go to war and kill many, many people (strangers to them) and live with themselves afterwards. Many of the Vietnam vets have flash backs due to the mind control programing lifting (and not everybody is mind control material) and have a hard time functioning in society as a reproduction.


Lizard patrol very interesting term for those who have any knowledge of the NWO and those behind it.
Now please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the young people who join the military are bad people or know anything about what is going on inside the armed forces. For the most part they truly think they are defending their country. Most if not all are ignorant of what will happen to them in boot camp. Boot camp is intended to makes mind control slaves out of the soldiers so they will carry out any command without second thought.

Now, I understand why you think it is ok to get angry and that is your choice. The two of us will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Love and Light, Midge

 

[BlaznFattyz]

the anger you are referring to falls under automatic thinking, which is primitive.

the anger Q is referring to falls under controlled thinking, which is conscious.

the soldier was angry which was automatic and could have gone nowhere, however his training which kicked in, which falls under learned behaviour, was controlled because he thought out a plan before hand and his anger helped him do what others could not, and the anger also assisted in psyching himself up to hold on for as long as he did. whether he knew it at the time or after, he learned that anger can be used as a tool if controlled to serve a purpose.

controlled thinking is thought out and has a purpose, even to the point of premeditated body language, voice, and action for effect.

 

[Marietta]

Dear taijasi,
I agree with you 100% but without the anger. Do not let them pull you into their trap of anger. Don't you see the IMO here.

I have never had a discussion with a christian that when giving a differing view from the one they held, that they didn't at some point end up getting very angry and nasty. It is unknowingly used as a means of vampiring energy.

I am sending calm and healing energy your way to surround you and keep you at ease.

I for one injoy reading what you post so keep up the good work.

With Love and Light, Midge

 

[taijasi]

Well thank you, Midge. Hopefully, if nothing else, I might prove a point with my earlier post ... I'd hope that it would evidence that anger, in & of itself, is a poison. In Buddhism, it is one of the `kleshas.' Catholicism recognizes it as a "Deadly Sin."

So, the Catholic (hmmm, I think I know one or two around here somewhere) will have to accept that Jesus was practicing a DEADLY SIN ... no matter what he chose to do with it, or convert it into.

Bottom line: Christ didn't get mad. PERIOD. End of story.

But then, if we prefer to create Christ, Jesus, God, whatever else we like in our own image, then of course, we can ascribe ALL SORTS of properties, qualities and so forth.

It's the syruppy sweet, sappy, gushy, sentimentalism that I think sometimes drives me the nutsiest when it comes to candy-coated Christianity ... but at least this is all stuff tailor-made to make people feel good, and that's better than walking around with a big angry, vengeant, judgmental man in your head. Put 'em both together, call it `god,' and ... well, that's the stuff nightmares are made of.

No wonder people fear going to hell. But I don't think it's `the devil' they need to worry about.

Anyway, thanks Midge. It was a bit out of line of me to fire off earlier, and for that - I apologize. I guess I just got a little ticked at your condescension, Q. But then, I've never particularly enjoyed people talking that way to me, so perhaps the human anger-reaction is understandable.

I guess if I were God, it would be totally okay? Along with a couple of those lightning-bolts up .... err, I mean, down onto my subjects?

Yeah right.

Kenod wrote: "Christian anger is to do with injustice and the welfare of others."

There is something called righteous indignation. This can precede a valiant defence of those who are unjustly attacked ... or fuel & inspire one to great acts of charity and kindness. I do agree, Kenod. And yes, that has nothing to do with pettiness.

But this `anger,' like the `fear' we are supposed to have of the Lord, is a FAR cry from what the word means to most of us, nowadays. Instead of fear, we should read veneration, respect, reverence, and awe. Likewise, for anger, we should read indignation, even enthusiasm.

Added: So was Jesus enthused about the money-changing going on in the Temple? Well, yes actually! He was charged up because it offered him a perfect opportunity to point out the backwards state of things. He didn't suddenly behold something that he had never seen before.

Come on, folks. This was KNOWN to him. You figure, he did what - brooded over it, and steamed over it, and just couldn't resist losing his cool when they finally came upon the scene? DOH! Err, not! An actor, on stage, who has carefully trained for a part ... IS ABLE to convey true, genuine, righteous indignation (or "anger"), and this is precisely what Christ Jesus did.

So did he "lose it?" Did he lose his cool? Did he fly off the handle? Was he out of control? Nope. Not for a second. The man who could walk on water, was pretty well in touch - and in control - of his emotions. That, after all, is what it means ... and he could still the waters, as well as walk on them. Thus, he also knew how to stir them up. Properly.

But if the point that folks are making is that an explosion of anger is an opportunity for learning & growth ... then this is far more important than babbling on about what happened when Jesus went to church.

taijasi