Salvation not restricted to Christains
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taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
LOL - I am truly amazed ... the golden CALF (Taurus), the promised LAMB/Ram (Aries), the FISHES (Oannes, Pisces) ... and now, the Water-Bearer, referred to in the Gospels by Christ Himself (Aquarius).
These are only the recent cycles. But no, you're right, only the last two have anything to do with Christianity as such, and for that matter, just the Fishes of Pisces.
So, you of the PISCES flock, nice to meet you.
Those of the Capricorn flock, the Goats, hope to work with you again soon ...
I can't even hold my own as an Aquarian atm, but then, I'm not quite alone in that, just experiencing the usual, a bit of instant karma.
Thanks for the post, Luna, that clears things up. But my point, is that things aren't so existentialist. And remember, MANY a Christian believes in Reincarnation, far more than you might realize. Don't tell me, oh, but that's not what Jesus taught. Prove it. Were you there?
This SALVATION we speak about, makes so much more sense (to me, and to a lot of people), if we are looking at things across multiple lifetimes. It is not the ONLY way to see it, nor is what is being said about righteousness and sin pure relativity....
Amazing how hard a bunch of people will FIGHT - for their hell, and the right to imagine other people IN that hell.
Ok, then. HAVE it. Just recall what the man said about "those who seek to be first" ...
- and don't be surprised who you find in `Heaven' when you finally get there, including some of the most unlikely of characters, who will say, "Hey, what took you so long!"
I can see the whole lot of you stomping your feet and shaking your fists, and screaming to God above, "But, how could you!!!"
and everyone just hears a big SIGHHHHHH
lol, that gets me - Dammit, I believe in Hell, and YOU CAN'T MAKE ME STOP BELIEVING IN IT!!!
oh! okay, okay, hands off, hands off ... I'll stop already!!!
Try and help somebody out, SEE the thanks I get ... oi vey
These are only the recent cycles. But no, you're right, only the last two have anything to do with Christianity as such, and for that matter, just the Fishes of Pisces.
So, you of the PISCES flock, nice to meet you.
Those of the Capricorn flock, the Goats, hope to work with you again soon ...
I can't even hold my own as an Aquarian atm, but then, I'm not quite alone in that, just experiencing the usual, a bit of instant karma.
Thanks for the post, Luna, that clears things up. But my point, is that things aren't so existentialist. And remember, MANY a Christian believes in Reincarnation, far more than you might realize. Don't tell me, oh, but that's not what Jesus taught. Prove it. Were you there?
This SALVATION we speak about, makes so much more sense (to me, and to a lot of people), if we are looking at things across multiple lifetimes. It is not the ONLY way to see it, nor is what is being said about righteousness and sin pure relativity....
Amazing how hard a bunch of people will FIGHT - for their hell, and the right to imagine other people IN that hell.
Ok, then. HAVE it. Just recall what the man said about "those who seek to be first" ...
- and don't be surprised who you find in `Heaven' when you finally get there, including some of the most unlikely of characters, who will say, "Hey, what took you so long!"
I can see the whole lot of you stomping your feet and shaking your fists, and screaming to God above, "But, how could you!!!"
and everyone just hears a big SIGHHHHHH
lol, that gets me - Dammit, I believe in Hell, and YOU CAN'T MAKE ME STOP BELIEVING IN IT!!!
oh! okay, okay, hands off, hands off ... I'll stop already!!!
Try and help somebody out, SEE the thanks I get ... oi vey
Sorry, you won't find it in the bible. Look as hard as you want, but that is not part of Biblia Christos.
What it might be is your or some one elses interpretation on things...
edit: we don't even know what month Jesus was born. Some say fall, some say winter, some say spring...NONE say Summer...
lunamoth
Episcopalian
Hi Andrew,
I think you missed the point of why I posted that, but nevermind. And next time you make a rhetorical statement like the above underlined, don't put an answer in my mouth for me.
For the record, it's not what Jesus taught, but what Jesus did.
luna
I would like to add that righeousness is doing what is right.. what is right? Gods word. So.. Gods word is righteous.. and we are righteous when we follow Gods word..[/quote] There are so many of G-ds words...and they are contradictory...since when does all not mean all. Yes I agree we need to live righteous lives, yes I agree we need to give up our sinful ways (repent) to receive forgiveness. Yes I agree in one place it implies that we need to accept Jesus...but in another G-d says all. So all who repent, all who decide to be righteous...
I get beat up regularly for ignoring scripture...how can you ignore the word all. It doesn't say all believers, it says all.
Sheep (whether Ewes or Rams) are of a flock and stick together, and listen to the shepard. Goats are a different animal all together. They do not like sheep, and they can cause serious damage, when put together with sheep. Rams can kill a goat, Ewes are not so fortunate at having that strength.
Rams can kill a wolf, but only if several Rams are present...
Now does it make sense?
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Didn't mean to attribute this rhetorical statement to you alone, luna ... just trying to show that many Christians do see Salvation as an "all-or-none" kind of thing. It's not seen a process, or a gradual awakening, or a PATH. Instead, it is made into a "one time deal," either you "are" or "aren't."Hi Andrew,
I think you missed the point of why I posted that, but nevermind. And next time you make a rhetorical statement like the above underlined, don't put an answer in my mouth for me.
For the record, it's not what Jesus taught, but what Jesus did.
luna
As Joshua says, what comes "after" still matters ... yet there is some kind of magical, pivotal moment - and this, to me, isn't Salvation at all.
It really doesn't matter what I believe, though, now does it?
And Joshua, one need not look into the Holy Bible to see God's Truth. If one cannot see it in the stars, in the CONSTELLATIONS, which God ordered in the Heavens ... then I hardly think one is qualified to slap one's hand on the Bible, and say "HERE is God's word, and astrology isn't anywhere IN IT!"
BTW, you're dead wrong on that count. They were these guys called "The MAGI" - and they were ASTROLOGERS ... and astrology figures EVERYWHERE in the Hebrew Old Testament, AS WELL AS in the bridging, or transition time, into the NEW. It's where you get the Slaughter of Innocents, from ...
... and the Golden Calf is kinda prominent in there, too - as was the Lamb (even "The Lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world" - well, as every ESOTERICIST, yet not every Christian, knows ... Aries marks the BEGINNING of all cycles - thus the FOUNDATION of any, and every, Creation, when considering the Zodiac).
As for Pisces, the fishes, REMEMBER, this is ASTRONOMY every bit as much as it is ASTROLOGY, for not until quite, quite recently (as in, a handful of decades), did science DIVIDE these two disciplines ... and the medieval astronomers were as much astrologers as were the Persian MAGI.
A STAR foretold Christ's birth ...
... and the Water-Bearer, referenced CLEARLY in Mark 14:13-14, is AS ASTROLOGICAL as one can get!!!
YOU may wish to interpret these another way, and I will not dispute that Christianity does not present all of this in a straightforward and clear manner. YEP! You got me there!!!
pattimax
Somewhat returning
There are so many of G-ds words...and they are contradictory...since when does all not mean all.
I get beat up regularly for ignoring scripture...how can you ignore the word all. It doesn't say all believers, it says all.[/quote]
I know you are not ignoring scripture. Please do not ignore the last verse in the bible.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Revelation 22:21 NKJV
The world is not done yet.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
I kind of don't know. I don't have the musical aptitude or understanding to answer. There are several parts, but one (or two) are just Veni Sancte Spiritus, repeated over and over. This is Taize, and information can be found here.Prober said:Cool...what's the rest like?
I know it from singing the simple Veni Sancte Spiritus refrain ... and also, Come Holy Spirit. But there is a beautiful soprano, or maybe alto, part. Or perhaps it's called something else - I'm musically illiterate (err, I can amost read music, but that's as far as it goes). Can't hold a tune in a bucket ...
Anyway, if you have Winamp, or something that can play an .ogg file, try this link for a sample.
The piece is contextual for me. It brings back wonderful memories, and the voice - and face - of something very quite beautiful. Taize is often sung in rounds, and the group I was in would number anywhere from four or five, to 10 or 15. While the Latin is beautiful unto itself (and some pieces are German, and in other languages), it's also an opportunity to forget the lyrics, and harmonize, and lose track of the outer ... in the inner.
It's a metaphor, and it's also a really neat tradition ...
~peace
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
The Lord never contradicts Himself. If theres any mistake made.. you can be sure Man is at fault.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Could be that one is independent and the other has a flock mentality. Or it could be that goats have about 50 points less than sheep on the IQ level (seriously). They can breed, but most times the offspring are sterile (an exception to the rule is called a Chimera).
Goats and Sheep, same genus, different species. (like horse and donkey)
M
mee
Guest
very true indeed
M
mee
Guest
the world and its ways .
M