Salvation not restricted to Christains

[Dondi]

It just has to do with why we believe, what we believe, and for me, Sacred Scripture is something much, much greater than the Holy Book(s) of one tradition alone ... I think there are many, many dozens, even hundred, perhaps thousands of such Scriptures - many known, some as yet unknown, undiscovered, even lost forever (eclipsed with the ancient cultures that once maintained them).

That may well be, and perhaps in the future I might inquire on the books of other faiths. But I'm too busy trying to master the richness of the one Book I have as it is, (which is a collection of many books from two traditions, btw). And I don't even think I've made a dent in it yet.

 

[cyberpi]

It just has to do with why we believe, what we believe, and for me, Sacred Scripture is something much, much greater than the Holy Book(s) of one tradition alone ... I think there are many, many dozens, even hundred, perhaps thousands of such Scriptures - many known, some as yet unknown, undiscovered, even lost forever (eclipsed with the ancient cultures that once maintained them).

I noticed that God does not refer to any book, scripture, or commandment, etc... as Holy. I find that God is right; books and scriptures are not Holy.

 

[Quahom1]

I noticed that God does not refer to any book, scripture, or commandment, etc... as Holy. I find that God is right; books and scriptures are not Holy.

You forgot the 10 commandments, allegedly given by God Himself and specfically told of man to keep holy...and since God allegedly wrote those commandments Himself, by default they are in fact "holy".

v/r

Joshua

 

[cyberpi]

There is the Holy Ghost, a Holy day (Sabbath), Holy places, Holy garments, and Holy people... where did God call the commandments Holy? He did not.

A special person, time, place, or thing can not be duplicated or soiled from the outside. But anything written is based on language, and that language is easily soiled by the outside. The Bible is NOT Holy. It is printed on DEAD trees. That should be a clue. I submit that the Ten commandments in stone were NOT called Holy by God for a reason. The Qur'an refers to itself, the Taurat, the Gospel, and the 'Book', and it does NOT call any of them Holy either. Anyone who calls the Bible or Qur'an Holy does not understand the nature of 'TRUTH'. Whereas, of course, God does.

 

[Quahom1]

There is the Holy Ghost, a Holy day (Sabbath), Holy places, Holy garments, and Holy people... where did God call the commandments Holy? He did not.

A special person, time, place, or thing can not be duplicated or soiled from the outside. But anything written is based on language, and that language is easily soiled by the outside. The Bible is NOT Holy. It is printed on DEAD trees. That should be a clue. I submit that the Ten commandments in stone were NOT called Holy by God for a reason. The Qur'an refers to itself, the Taurat, the Gospel, and the 'Book', and it does NOT call any of them Holy either. Anyone who calls the Bible or Qur'an Holy does not understand the nature of 'TRUTH'. Whereas, of course, God does.

He said to keep them holy...that pretty much sums it up.

Let me rephrase (since you are looking for a specific passage, just one, that is God lead and infers holy scripture)

Commandmant number 4:

Remember the sabbath day,
to keep it holy.
Six days you shall labor,
and do all your work;
but the seventh day is a sabbath
to the Lord your God;
in it you shall not do any work,
you, or your son, or your daughter,
your manservant, or your maidservant,
or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates;
for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea,
and all that is in them,
and rested the seventh day;
therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day


and hallowed it

Genesis 20:8-11 (RSV)​

what does holy, and hallowed mean?

And anyone who deliberately denies others of what they consider truth in scripture ...is what? Enlightenened? Most would be hard pressed to accept that, particularly in an aggressive light...

Just a thought.

v/r

Joshua​

 

[cyberpi]

One of the commandments is to remember and keep the Sabbath day Holy. How does that sum up the 10 commandments? I should think the stone tablets would have been called Holy if they were not dropped and lost, but the problem is the nature of language. There is no shortage of things touched in the world by God, but can they be kept clean? God clearly says that he is Holy and his name is Hallowed, but per the Bible he did not call the stone tablets Holy... nor even his words and commandments that were written on them.

 

[Quahom1]

One of the commandments is to remember and keep the Sabbath day Holy. How does that sum up the 10 commandments? I should think the stone tablets would have been called Holy if they were not dropped and lost, but the problem is language. There is no shortage of things touched in the world by God, but can they be kept clean? God clearly says that he is Holy and his name is Hallowed, but per the Bible he did NOT call the stone tablets Holy.

You said, "where did God call the commandments Holy? He did not".

I just proved you in doubt of your own statement.

Yep, I'm knit picking, just like you have been. There is one Commandment that God His self said to keep holy. That is one scripture you can't deny.

And it isn't the tablets nor the laws written on paper that are important, but rather what is written in the heart of man (that you curiously ignore). But I tell you, if all civil law disolved tomorrow, there would still be law (as written in a man's heart). The commandments are holy...argue all you want. Been there, done that, own the tee shirt.

 

[Dondi]

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." - Romans 7:12

 

[Faithfulservant]

Holy in that context means set apart.. if that was a legitimate question.

 

[Prober]

So, if they're holy, shouldn't we keep all of these commandments?

 

[cyberpi]

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." - Romans 7:12

Yes, I did see that before my first post. A letter from Paul to the Romans. I would consider that shows the Bible is NOT Holy if I my assertment is correct. Thank you!

You said, "where did God call the commandments Holy? He did not". I just proved you in doubt of your own statement.

It seems like you are trying to prove the statement. The commandment is to keep the Sabbath Holy... NOT a Holy commandment is to keep the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

I am not teaching to belittle law or commandments... in an information age of rapidly changing language where people blow themselves up and call it martyrdom, I am drawing attention to what is Holy by recognizing what is not.

 

[Faithfulservant]

So, if they're holy, shouldn't we keep all of these commandments?

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

 

[Prober]

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

It's creeping that way, huh.

I just think if G-d said to do something and called it holy, we should do it.

(puts Sabbath hammer back into bag)

Anyway, only good thoughts!

 

[Dondi]

Yes, I did see that before my first post. A letter from Paul to the Romans. I would consider that shows the Bible is NOT Holy if I my assertment is correct. Thank you!

What is your definition of Holy?

Would you say that obeying the commandments are what makes one holy?

 

[cyberpi]

Uh oh is this a legalism conversation??

Is the name "Christ" kept Holy or is it degraded by those individuals who pronounce themselves "Christ like" with the name "Christian"... to make themselves appear more Holy than the rest?

What is your definition of Holy?

I seek God's definition.

 

[Dondi]

I seek God's definition.

That's a bit evasive, isn't it?

 

[cyberpi]

That's a bit evasive, isn't it?

From God, or from Christians who teach that a Law of Love is to Love only Love with Love, nothing but a heart which God writes on but does not really do any work except to ask that something be done for them... and without judgement. I'm not saying thats you, but I am saying collectively that is what I have read in these forums. So with that corrupted definition of Law... I instead seek what is Holy.

 

[Dondi]

From God, or from Christians who teach that a Law of Love is to Love only Love with Love, nothing but a heart which God writes on but does not really do any work except to ask that something be done for them. I'm not saying thats you, but I am saying collectively that is what I have read in these forums. So with that corrupted definition of Law... I instead seek what is Holy.

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

 

[pattimax]

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"... Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

This is where the beauty of grace comes in.

 

[lunamoth]

To Love is not to Love with Love, but to Love with the Law. To me the Law represents God's heart. Why else would He give the rules?

The essence of the law can be found in James' estimation of it:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." - James 2:8-17

This is the Law working within the boundaries of Love. Not as some commandment to follow out of compulsion or even a sense of duty to God, but to value it for what it means in the operation of the human heart: compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

Wow Dondi, that is a wonderful way to put it. I'm going to print this one out for frequent contemplation.

Thank you,
luna