Global Warming Watch

While the CBS Morning Show admonishes us to pay close attantion to Britney doing drugs and getting naked in front of her kids...AFTER HER REHAB ! And...we need to pay close attention to a NEW BRADY BUNCH SCANDAL on the horizon...the "hide yer heads in the sand gang" rally around their fearless leader to concoct their own answers to the "global warming crisis" later this week.

Reputedly this was heard wafting acoss the lawn from the west wing during a planning session..."By crackey, we surely don't want no black helicopters and guys with light blue helmets stoppin' us from drivin' our pickups down dusty roads. Why...they'll even probibly try to take the rifles out of our back window gunracks iffin' we're not reel careful...right y'all ?"

flow....;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/world/24warming.html
 
Can someone help me on this one?

As I understand it any actual sea level rising today has been minute, yet I'm reading these reports.

Are these islanders needing relocating due to sea levels rising, normal sea erosion, or their islands sinking??

I live on the Eastern Seaboard of the US... In Annapolis, MD for as long as I can remember high tides come up through the storm drains and into the gutters...so I can physically see any change in sea level in relation to how high the water is on the curb. I discern no change....same as a dock down on the Patuxent. It has during high rains and high tides which blow up the river gone over the dock a few times in the past 20 years....but in normal high tides it comes up to the bottom of the dock joists....and there is no change in this over the past twenty years.

It isn't really possible that sea levels could rise in one part of the world and not another is it?? Wouldn't this be a global??

Carterets to be Evacuated due to Rising Sea Level | Climate IMC International
Oxfam Australia :: Media :: Rising sea levels submerging islands in Papua New Guinea
Australia: People on the Frontline of Climate Change | Rising Tide Australia

my main issue is as follows. If this is an actual global warming, sea level rising problem, it is important. However if this is occurring due to another condition and it is sensationalizing or not the real truth...it is yet another black eye...and will be utilized as yet another touchdown for the deniers..
 
Can someone help me on this one?

As I understand it any actual sea level rising today has been minute, yet I'm reading these reports.

Are these islanders needing relocating due to sea levels rising, normal sea erosion, or their islands sinking??

I live on the Eastern Seaboard of the US... In Annapolis, MD for as long as I can remember high tides come up through the storm drains and into the gutters...so I can physically see any change in sea level in relation to how high the water is on the curb. I discern no change....same as a dock down on the Patuxent. It has during high rains and high tides which blow up the river gone over the dock a few times in the past 20 years....but in normal high tides it comes up to the bottom of the dock joists....and there is no change in this over the past twenty years.

It isn't really possible that sea levels could rise in one part of the world and not another is it?? Wouldn't this be a global??

Carterets to be Evacuated due to Rising Sea Level | Climate IMC International
Oxfam Australia :: Media :: Rising sea levels submerging islands in Papua New Guinea
Australia: People on the Frontline of Climate Change | Rising Tide Australia

my main issue is as follows. If this is an actual global warming, sea level rising problem, it is important. However if this is occurring due to another condition and it is sensationalizing or not the real truth...it is yet another black eye...and will be utilized as yet another touchdown for the deniers..

Sea level rises are extremely difficult to accurately gauge and are subject to much controversy. I do attempt to be neutral in my evaluation of any claim but have seen spurious figures put out by both sides so getting a fair picture of the changes taking place is far from easy. In the north Atlantic any sea level rises are pretty much offset by a rising of the continental shelves. This is due to the release of weight of ice that was put on them during the last glaciation. The figures for location specific rising and falling of continental crust are highly variable and I think its fair to say it is still a poorly understood science.
The greatest rise in sea level is in the tropics where we also find the greatest rise in sea temperature. Here thermal expansion is largely held responsible for the changes that threaten certain islands but yet again the rises are not uniformly seen across specific latitudes. It seems that "sea level" is not an arbitrary mean that applies everywhere but that the oceans themselves are hilly or at least form quite long term peaks and troughs.
A new set of satellites is soon to be or has been recently been launched to give us some harder data on the dynamics of sea level and I think, from what I have read, that it would be premature of anyone to offer a definitive picture of sea level changes until we have more info.

Tao
 
The latest news about the changes taking place on the top of the world is now officially startling to even those who are considered to be experts on the issues. What do you think ? I think that if the news is sent back to around 1492 somehow, European royals might get real excited about there being a Northwest passage to the Indies and Asia.

flow....:cool:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/science/earth/02arct.html?ref=science
 
Has anyone come to the realization that solar cells are NOT green, and will increase global warming?
 
Has anyone come to the realization that solar cells are NOT green, and will increase global warming?
how exactly is that?

I could see their darkness and reflective value a problem vs. soil or foilage, but put on a tar roof I'd say they minimize that...and in the US most electrical plants are coal or oil so they'd be reducing the increased need for more plants...

'splain yoself.
 
And it depends upon the type of solar systems employed to generate electricity. While most are familiar with passive solar collection for small scale use, the larger facilities in the southwest use technologies employing highly reflective and mirrored, curved surface areas to collect solar energies. This energy is then focused upon vessels where various types of fluids are super heated, which then is channeled or piped to conventional turbine arrays, which then generate electricity to be fed into the grid.

The newest and largest facility near where I live generates enough power to serve 40,000 homes a day and employs liquid sodium in the generation process. It's a totally sealed and closed system that vents no waste heat to the environment, and only employs a few acres of desert environment for solar energy collection arrays and the generating facility. In no way would this be considered more wasteful than a coal fired or natural gas fired generation facility.

It has been speculated that if just 100 sq. miles of desert were employed to house such integrated systems and the related technologies, the entire southwest could be powered each day with the output from this single set of facilities. Instead, the push is on by "you know who" to build and install several more coal-fired systems in N. Nevada and Utah ...UGH !

flow....;)
 
how exactly is that?

I could see their darkness and reflective value a problem vs. soil or foilage, but put on a tar roof I'd say they minimize that...and in the US most electrical plants are coal or oil so they'd be reducing the increased need for more plants...

'splain yoself.
I'm in your neck of the woods for a few days... a bit south in Easton.

Well... what is a greenhouse? It lets solar energy in, the energy is used or stored, converted to heat, and the heat is somewhat trapped. A solar cell accomplishes the same thing. It takes solar energy in, converts it to electricity, and darn near every electric appliance is air cooled and does not evaporate water. Perfect greenhouse. If the planet were covered with solar cells it would bake it like an electric oven. Why?

It is like a house... if you turn on any appliance in a house, even the refrigerator, it will heat the house up. So if you put solar cells on top of the house and power anything inside of the house... you will be heating up the house. Make sense?

The reason the planet would bake is a little more deceptive... basically the atmosphere is somewhat insulative at lower temperatures just like the walls and roof of the house. When sunlight hits things like pavement, roof tops, or cars, it heats them up above atmospheric temperature. Being hotter, those things are going to radiate heat with a stronger and different EM frequency distribution. They will radiate faster and better into the night sky than something at room temperature. In the night the pavement, the roof top, and the car often cool below the atmospheric temperature. So in a desert for example where there is low water it might be very hot in the day, but it is also going to be colder at night. There are more extreme temperature differentials between day and night in a desert (low water) than say some place like Seattle where there is a stronger water cycle... the temperatures are milder in Seattle.

So my point is that even in a desert there is ample cooling by radiative cooling. Rather than just heat the atmosphere up, the solar targets re-radiate the energy right back into space. In a desert there is wasted energy. A solar cell in the desert is going to harness that energy. As you harness that energy instead of heating up the ground hotter than atmosphere, it will instead heat up the atmosphere. That lesser atmospheric temperature is harder to expel off the planet than the energy that was absorbed by the hot sand, (pavement, rooftop, etc...) and then jettisoned unused into the night sky. By using the energy with a solar cell, we've increased the background atmospheric temperature... which is harder to get out of the house.

So how do we use energy AND cool the house? To cool a house requires A/C or a swamp cooler and good air flow, right? Well, how does the A/C work? It works by alternating the phase of Freon (or water), for example, between a gas and a liquid. The Earth's water cycle is identical. If you want to cool the house, you need to drive the Freon cycle. If you want to cool the planet, you need to drive the water cycle. The problem is, nothing a solar cell is going to power is going to really drive the water cycle. People don't use electricity that way... they don't cool their computers by evaporating water for example. Using a solar cell is like turning on the oven in the house... is that going to heat up the house or cool it down? Put solar cells on the roof of a building... you will be contributing to global warming. I kid you not.

Plant trees on the roof of a building... then you will be contributing to global cooling, removing CO2 from the atmosphere, and storing and preserving energy delivered by the sun for future use. Plants evaporate water and thus drive the Earth's A/C. Solar cells and whatever they power... do not.
 
On the flip side of the coin... here is a way that the world could immediately have a major impact on global warming (help cause global cooling). Re-design the radiator of cars, industrial processes, and A/C's... to evaporate water into the atmosphere. The more water that a car evaporates the GREENER it is. If anything desalinates or evaporates dirty water... even better. I kid you not. Ship the dirty water to the desert climates and let the cars and the land there evaporate it. THEN you will be putting the Sun's energy to use into cooling the planet... powering up the planet's A/C... which is the water cycle.

In fact anyone who uses an A/C can make it more efficient and save electricity by adding a mister that sprays water into the fan and heat exchanger. Similarly a car is made more efficient (burn less fuel) with less air drag by designing the radiator to capture less air flow, but to evaporate water for cooling.

Lets think about this... a human and an animal needs water more regularly than it needs food... yet we've designed everything from appliances to industrial equipment to run only on food. Ooops!
 
let us yell "huzzah!"

HUZZAH!

And now ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together again for...of all the improbable recipients of kudos on this thread...yes folks...THE UTILITY COMPANIES. YAYYYYY !! YEAHHHH !!

Boo, hiss (I bet it is more about the construction costs than any concerns about global warming so no yayyy from the cynic in black).
 
MW...Salaam
I think the makers of the documentary have been posting on this thread from time to time. No I hadn't heard about this, but it's not surprising to me considering that the media is totally about money and not truth or ethics if the amounts remanded are sufficiently obscene....expect more of it I'm afraid.

flow....:rolleyes:
 
:eek: OMG Flow, quick hide bottles of water in the cellar/attic/under the bed just in case. Give it 20 years and we can compare what life is like in a desert with no water. Have you got camels over there? :(
 
Nope...no camels that I've seen. Some humpback people though.

I already drink all of my water out of bottles (distilled... for a medical condition). So I'm ok there until there's no money left.

Since the Nile is not a "snowmelt" river i might be over there sooner rather than later.

flow....:p
 
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