Christians are Free to Accept Reincarnation

[Bruce Michael]

Greetings Paul,

>Bruce. your view is your interperatation, as your talk about the freedom of >Christians to accept your interperatation.

Freedom means choice. Christians remain Christians whether they accept reincarnation or not.

>But as to Christianity, I have to ask what makes your views Christian.

Because they are true. And theologically speaking I fail to see how believing in reincarnation or not affects our Christianity.


>And Christianity that doesn't accept reincarnation, are you saying they >lack a true understanding, where as you have the truth?

Christians were once compelled to believe the Earth was the centre of the Universe.

>I've lost a loved one.
>What of the beleif that we will meet again?

>How does this fit into reincarnation.

I believe you will meet loved ones in the after life, in your sojourn in Heaven. There are are lot of people you will love as time goes on- and what's wrong with that? And why wouldn't that be part of God's Grand Design.


>What happens to people and loved ones, the memories, the love even? I >can't remember none of it myself.
>If I am a reincarnated being, why am my memories only of this life?

Do you remember your dreams? And how much detail? What about dreams you had five years ago? And what of your childhood? How much of that do you remember?
In the space of a thousand years you might have forgotten a few things.

There are four ways which one might argue the case for reincarnation:


1. Looking at reincarnation in the Holy Scriptures- the hints in the Bible.

2. And looking at the belief as it occurs in Judaism. (I have posted before on this.) I think it took until the 6th century before a belief in reincarnation was banned by the Church.

3. (And this is more convincing for me.) The philosophical/theological argument. If God is a God of justice why is it that we are born into such varying circumstances? Why do some only have short lives? Are they then judged for eternal life after only having scant experience?

4. And lastly, direct inarguable experience. Without attempting to present any of the above arguments, Tomberg plainly states that it was part of his direct knowledge, and that is that. If folk don't believe in reincarnation now, they will, when through initiation they come to it directly. Personally I have had dreams and strong intuitions about my own "ongoingness".

And what if they are born mentally handicapped or with some other malady that prevents them from making adequate spiritual decisions?

Physical circumstances: If becoming a Christian is so important why is it next to impossible for plenty to come to this decision- because of remoteness (the middle of a New Guinea jungle for example) or because they live in an atheistic/communist or Muslim society.

All these questions must be answered by proponents of the "one life" doctrine.

I can still remember the marvelous feeling of relief I felt when coming to the idea of reincarnation. Everything sorts itself out in the end.

There are reasons for our circumstances and those of others. Life goes on and we develop further- we build on our strengths and make good our deficiencies. We experience all positions on the Wheel of Fortune.

Talking on the subject recently a friend said to me "Oh but when are we going to be with God." Personally I believe that on average we spend about one thousand years in the heavenly worlds- enough time for R & R.
Here the writer of Psalms (Prayer of Moses) mentions this thousand years:

Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of
men. For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it
is past, and as a watch in the night.
Psalms 90:3-4

As for being at one with our Father God, Tomberg states that at the midnight hour between birth and death we have to be sheltered from the sight of Nirvana (totally at-one-ness) because the blissfulness is such that you would never want to leave!

BTW the teaching of reincarnation and karma does not in any way preclude the doctrine of Original Sin and Grace. These are greater issues which affect humanity as a whole. There is a lecture on Original Sin by Dr. Steiner available- I have posted the link.

Cheerio,
Br.Bruce

 

[paul]

But what difference and relevance does it have to have one life and then another, and remember nothing of the life before?

If you can't remember your love and your mistakes, then what is the point of reincarnation?

 

[paul]

"It is absolutely necessary that the soul should be healed and purified, and if this does not take place during its life on earth it must be accomplished in future lives."

-St. Gregory- Bishop of Nyssa 257-332.

Would you be so kind to post a link to this in it's original context?

Where did you get it from, have you a book if you didn't find it online?

I know his works are online, so even if you have a book and can tell me the chapter I may beable to find it in it's context and save you posting the whole context.

Thanks.

Paul

 

[taijasi]

But what difference and relevance does it have to have one life and then another, and remember nothing of the life before?

If you can't remember your love and your mistakes, then what is the point of reincarnation?

We do remember them, paul, just at a subconscious level. Our previous mistakes will reappear, in a new form - appropriate to the day and the current circumstances - and we are given a chance to "try again," as it were.

Except what is different is that we've learned, and gained something, during the time we spent in between incarnations. We LEARN during the period after death, and we gradually become "purged," or purified, so that we may enter in - again & again, closer & closer - to God's Most Holy Presence.

Through this method, we are made ready to live in God's Light and Love, even as we move through the world of men, as did Christ Jesus. And although the circumstances of the world have changed, especially over hundreds of years, the verities of the Kingdom of God have NOT changed. That is how it is possible, and right & just, that we may learn lessons in a life long ago past, which can and must be applied IN A LIFE CURRENT ... so that certain virtues can become a permanent part of our true Self, the Spiritual part of our being.

For we are not of this world, we are simply in it. And our Consciousness is not the product OF physical life, or an outgrowth of it ... but instead it is the nature of our true Self, the SOUL, which learns by its experience here - yet which also calls another `place,' or another state, `HOME.'

And we remember our Loves, both as people, and as places, experiences, or things. We meet people throughout our lives, whom we recognize as former Friends ... though they are in a new body, a new appearance, and truly - we have NOT seen them before, as such. What we recognize, is the same FRIEND with whom we have more than likely incarnated dozens, scores, even hundreds of times, throughout the eons.

And precisely because of such relationships, do some disciples grow so near & dear to the heart of a more Advanced Soul ... that when that Soul approaches Self-Mastery, or adeptship, a group of his closest Brethren become gathered, in Co-Service to God & to Humanity. We have seen this story, enacted before us, again, and again, and again, depicting what is possible, and Planned, and destined, for all of us ... given Right Effort, and Discipline, and Brotherly Love.

These teachings can be distorted. They have been distorted, to suit the agendas, and the machinations, of a power-hungry, politically corrupt institution ... still hiding the truth from the hearts and minds of honest believers. But the days of such EVIL are numbered. Christ comes as the Revealer of TRUTH, and He will cleave the outworn, encrusted theological DOGMAS from the beautiful pearls of Wisdom that have long been imprisoned therein.

Like a Butterfly, emerging from its age-long chrysalis, the Doctrines which Christ taught WILL become freed, and given AGAIN, to all the Souls who earnestly, and humbly, seek Them.

This, in the esoteric teachings, is referred to as `The Restoration of the Mysteries,' which, clearly, the `Church' is no longer actually guarding. Christ's Reappearance is also accompanied by `The Externalization of the Hierarchy,' with at least a dozen or so spiritual Teachers accompanying the Christ, alongside the Nazarene Master, and several Who are already increasingly well known.

Literally millions of disicples are cooperating in service to this Plan, God's Plan ... and belief in Rebirth, though it is something that most esotericists do accept, is not a requirement - to Serve God & Humanity, and fulfil one's part, in the greater scheme of things.

In Love and Light,
A Brother of yours upon the Path,

~andrew

 

[Dondi]

Andrew,

I'm interested in how you know you've been reincarnated. What evidence do you see for yourself that you've existed previously? And as what?

 

[wil]

Some reading...
Reincarnation and the Church
CHRISTIANITY AND REINCARNATION

From Kriyananda: What Happens When We Die, Part 3

When the child is born, the family shares the karma of the child, which is now group karma. In being reborn, the child has reincarnated. This is not an Eastern idea. Reincarnation was a common belief in the West until as late as 553 CE when it was dropped from Western church philosophy at the second council of Constantinople when the church was seeking to remove the doctrine of the pre-existence of the soul. Up until that time, it was believed that the spirit was immortal. Because it was immortal, it must have had a pre-existence before it came to earth. The church had begun questioning where the pre-existent beings were before being born as humans. The early Christian fathers upheld the beliefs and principles of the pre-existence of the soul. Justin Martyr (100–165 CE) said the soul inhabits the human body more than once. Origen (185–254 CE), the most prominent of all the church fathers, said, “The soul, which is immaterial and invisible in its nature, exists in no material place without having a body suited to the nature of that place. Accordingly, it at one time puts off one body, which was necessary before, but which is no longer adequate in its changed state, and it exchanges it for a second.” St. Gregory (357–432 CE) stated that it is absolutely necessary that the soul should be healed and purified. If this does not take place during its life on earth, it must be accomplished in future lives.
The true doctrine of the soul's pre-existence, or the belief in reincarnation, is the most important and significant teaching of the churches of Christendom. Reading the texts of the saints will give you further background. Origen, St. Francis of Assisi, Johannes Scotus, Thomas Campanella, St. Francis Xavier, St. Bonaventure and St. Ignatius Loyola are just a few. They, and others, will make you aware of the astonishing truth hidden by the church for many centuries.
Some of the apocryphal books of the Christian bible state the doctrine of reincarnation as follows: “If he shall have sinned once, twice or thrice, they (the angels) shall reject that soul, sending it back again into the world according to the form of the sin that it committed.”

 

[paul]

I do know of many times of people using quotes out of context for their own agenda and beleifs.

These Christian Saints Gregory and Justin martyr.
As you have quoted them here and made claims, could you please provide the context?

 

[taijasi]

Andrew,

I'm interested in how you know you've been reincarnated. What evidence do you see for yourself that you've existed previously? And as what?

I will do my best to give an abbreviated, though annotated, version, Dondi. Thanks for asking.

Also, keep in mind that I am aware of at least 3 or 4 alternate explanations for everything I'm about to say. I cannot be exhaustive, but I'll try to hit all the highlights. I just want to make sure you're aware ... that if there's an alternate explanation - I've already considered it (and either dismissed it, or put it on the back burner, for now).

1. As a child of 2 or 3, I had an `imaginary playmate.' I certainly never thought of him in this way, however, as he was a very real presence. Clearly this was another person, a grown adult, yet I also had an innate understanding ... that he was more than that. I knew, in a way that I cannot possibly explain, that he was a part of me (or more accurately, a `PREVIOUS me,' which even a young child can understand. And much, much later I came to realize that this was the thought-form of a Knight Templar, a lifetime that my Soul lived around the turn of the 12th Century. This Templar served essentially as a Guardian Angel (guardian figure, that is) until I was about 20. Vide a wikipedia article on thoughtforms. Let me assure you, as a young child, I did not know who in the world the Knights Templar were!
2. In a similar fashion, I was constantly in the company of the thought-form, memories, and collective emotions from an immediately previous reincarnation. The circumstances of that death involved being killed violently, overseas, in the Vietnam conflict. Because of these circumstances (please see the research of clairvoyant Geoffrey Hodson, among others), a return to incarnation was almost immediate (a few years vs. a few centuries). This meant bringing back the same mind, or mental body, as well the same emotional (astral) body ... as well as I can figure. Normally this does not happen, and I'm sure there is some kind of special protection provided for children growing up under these circumstances ... but it still results, fairly often, in a child being quite aware of their immediate prior incarnation (spanning up to several decades, if that was the time of death). I would encourage you to watch this TV special, on `The Boy Who Lived Before,' at YouTube, for a casebook example.
3. When I was about 3, I experienced one of the most blissful, transcendent spiritual events of my entire life. Outwardly, I was standing in Dunkin Donuts, and things were quite mundane. Yet I was subjectively drawn - in my consciousness - into the Presence of the Tibetan Master (Djwhal Khul, one of the Three Magi that visited Jesus, and the Teacher Who gave out much of Blavatsky's The Secret Doctrine, as well as 19 volumes through Alice Bailey). It was not just DK, however, it was His entire Ashram, meaning all of the Souls who can claim Him as their Teacher. The SOUND I heard, felt and experienced was that of the OM (similar to AUM), as if sounded perpetually, by quasi-human, but quasi-Angelic, Beautiful Voices, in wonderful harmony. The tone was a deep one, as of a male choir, so the spiritual energy was clearly that of the Soul, or even Spirit, which is `positive' in relation to the personality - as a `negative' receiver. And for reference, this would have been in 1975, the SECOND (or fourth) time in Planet Earth's entire HISTORY when the Shamballa Force, emanating from The Father's House, made a direct impact upon Humanity as a whole. Vide this book (description) by Philip Lindsay for additional information and reference on Shamballa Impacts.
   • Did I know that it was Master DK, as a child? Of course not. I did not `see' him, as such, during my experience, which might have lasted 20 seconds, maybe a minute ... no way to tell, in that timeless state. But at age 19 or 20, in the library of my first Esoteric Group in Asheville, NC, I finally stumbled across a drawing of Master DK, `The Tibetan.' And I knew, instantly, that this was the Master Whose vibration, and whose Ashram I had experienced as a child. He is not my own Master, either, to the best of my knowledge ... yet many thousands of students are under His supervision during this lifetime.
4. When I was about 2 or 3, I had an out of body experience, and floated quite clearly and consciously across the street ... from a neighbor's house where I was staying, through my own bedroom window, and into my parents' bedroom - presumably to get them out of the body and go exploring. They were at a dinner party, so naturally I could not find them, and that freaked me out. I snapped back and woke up immediately, being sick to my stomach as I did so. This does not prove reincarnation. However, I have yet to find elsewhere the kind of scientific, unbiased exploration, research and detail regarding OOBEs as can be found in the Eastern traditions (which affirm Reincarnation), and by Theosophists and Esotericists ... who have taught us much about conditions upon the astral, mental, and spiritual planes of being.
5. Along these same lines, the first books which I found that made sense to me, just naturally, logically, and intuitively, were Theosophical writings, on the whole. These were shelved in the library at Guilford College, in Greensboro, NC ... a Quaker School (Religious Society of Friends). I discovered these books during a time when I was asking plenty of questions, at about age 17, and seldom in my life have I discovered resources and answers which made more sense, in a more direct or timely fashion, just when I most needed it. Further, these answers did not just seem right, they also FIT with things I had experienced before (or soon to come) ... such as out of body travel, slight dissociation of the etheric aura from the physical, quasi-clairvoyance (etheric, partially astral), ESP/TELEPATHY (I have had a fully conscious, even verbal telepathic conversation with someone else, sitting right next to me, verified with that person immediately thereafter, in careful detail) ... and later on, a shared dream experience (on the astral plane).
6. Going back to when I was maybe 6 or 7 (?), I also recall a very unusual, still somewhat inexplicable experience at the partnering Lutheran Church in Greensboro ... to my own childhood church, Lutheran Church of the Resurrection. At the partnering church, were I was attending VBS (Vacation Bible School), we were playing kickball or something similar. The ball came past me and went into the woods. I went in there with another fella to get it, and as well as I can recall, we saw the kid living in the house nextdoor to the church. He was on the other side of a fence, just playing, but quite visible ... and he may have even waved, or said hello. Well, that is what I observed outwardly. But what also happened, inwardly, is what I can only interpret as a super-imposition of my most recent, previous life memories ... on top of that kid, with the fence kind of symbolizing the world in between. It was like I was literally looking over a fence at my previous self. Both things happened, you see - and I SURE as hell was trying to have a past-life memory!
   
   • It was weird ... almost a bit disconcerting, but not outright frightening. What was actually much more disconcerting was the frequent `dream presence' of the `shell' from my most recent previous incarnation. As I've said in #1, this thing accompanied me into incarnation, because this life is kind of `take 2' ... due to a violent death. Many, many soldiers dying in Iraq nowadays ... will experience the same thing. Not all will remember, but I'm just saying, the memories/emotions/thoughts which come in with us, are NOT entirely pleasant. Eventually, this stuff is absorbed, and/or dissipates. For me, it was quite intense at times, amounting to a literal haunting during much of my childhood. It faded, but then resurfaced after age 16 or so, when I started smoking weed. That shell (the astral-emotional corpse of a previous incarnation, literally) took on new strength and energy from that point - since I began to pull through memories, during dreams, and even waking experiences, especially while high. It was not until I had help from a much more advanced disciple, an Initiate, during Grad School ... that I was able to absord (and dissipate) this negative energy, the shell. And remember, this USUALLY occurs, for most of us, in the ~10-30 years that we might spend in `Purgatory,' or the Astral Plane, the BARDO in Tibetan Buddhism, Bhuvar-Loka (?) in Hinduism, AMENTI in the Ancient Egyptian teachings, etc. Did I make all these correlative teachings up? NOPE ...

(cont'd)

 

[taijasi]

7. Again, after I started smoking weed at about age 16, strange things opened up to my awareness. I do not advocate drug use; in fact, I advise against it! But it cannot be disputed (by any reasonable, knowedgable and informed person) that altered states of awareness can be contacted or facilitated ... which sometimes lead to psychic or unusual experiences, including the discovery of past-life memories. Often these are distorted, and some of my experiences and ideas certainly were. Some of them may still be, yet I like to think I have `cleaned house' a great deal. For instance, early on, I was convinced I had an incarnation in the early 20th Century as an African American woman, perhaps even a freed slave. I only knew her as `Wilma,' but the memories were always tenuous, at best, and never actually featured anything except a name, maybe a vague image. I decided later that this was not an actual past-life memory, although I can speculate now on which lifetime it might have veiled ... a woman in a 1st or 2nd Century Persian harem. The former circumstances, you see, are actually much easier to face and confront than the unpleasantries involved in the latter.


8. Anyway, one of the first things that occurred for me, soon after starting to get high, was that a friend put a book in front of me with sketches of medieval castles. His eyes were huge, and as he handed it to me, he just said, "LOOK at that book man." And he nodded, and said again, "LOOK at it." And he was very serious, because I think he actually knew - subconsciously, yet QUITE close to being in full awareness - what I would soon discover. I didn't really have any interest, to be honest ... and although I could probably call Dave up and ask him if he still has that book, I seem to recall that it didn't really "do" much for me. It bored me. What's interesting then, is that - not via the power of suggestion - but rather, by way of RE-stirring my own memories and recollections from the earliest years (see #2), the `Knight Templar' thought-form surfaced again ... this time in full, conscious awareness. Finally, I KNEW, and though I could not, at first, put to him labels, faces or names, all of this would unfold ... IN GREAT DETAIL, in coming months and years. And I assure you, this was VERY spontaneous, as I didn't really even know who the Templars were, as yet, or give a ****.

What I would discover, about this same time as I was smoking weed with friends here & there, was that I already knew several people who shared a former lifetime with me, as Knights Templar. I think I identified 5 or 6, through my high school, college and graduate school days, including a professor or two ... whom I can only assume had no idea, as I may as well assume they also probably don't believe in rebirth. No matter, my friend Dave and I, as well as another of my closest friends, a co-Esotericist, clearly had/have some shared memories. And we were even able to explore some of these, with some degree of quasi-objectivity, though I think they manifested for each of us differently. And of course, these memories and experiences came through, both while smoking dope, as well as in a straight frame of mind, and/or while meditating, or just sitting twiddling our thumbs. Again, none of this was sought. It all - just HAPPENED.

And I would suggest that it was much, much easier to accept and process than the memories whichI was also struggling with during this same time - those from my drug days in San Francisco, and the time & death in Vietnam - because the more recent memories were less pleasant. The PURGING experience which the Templar would have undergone, after death, would have left a much `cleaner' thought-form ... so that, simply put, it was my SOUL which was using the Knight Templar image, or thought-form - sort of as a guide, or a means of contact with my personality consciousness. The hippie dude, on the other hand, was almost like an ALTER-EGO, and though he was `positive,' or friendly, `he' (it) was also not a direct instrument for the Soul ... you see? This was part of MY KARMA to clean up, or to deal with, in whatever means possible. Just like this current lifetime. And it's not that I was not without help; it's just that doing things like smoking weed can easily jar this stuff loose, and complicate things much more than would otherwise be the case. ONE MORE reason not to do drugs!

​

9. I've now alluded to detailed memories from my most recent past life, so I will explain. I already knew, good and well, before I was 16 or had even gotten high for the first time, that I had lived that lifetime ... and that we are all reborn. I knew this increasingly in my waking awareness, but many of the details, and plenty of the direct memories, were still in the process of surfacing. I do not think that we all need to undergo this, in the present lifetime, in order to move on with our spiritual (or personal) development. It may be that I would have been better off skipping all the drug use. But you see, there is a direct, karmic connection. I was already quite famliar with plenty of detailed memories, dating back to the last few years of my previous lifetime, even before I starting smoking grass. Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception, however, were blown wide open (chakras, you see) ... due to the weed, and a few hits of LSD. NOT advisable. But the result, for better or for worse, was more of the same, and more intense. I came to be quite well aware of a beach-house, and probably several others, on the WEST COAST, LA or San Francisco Bay area, from the mid to late 60s. These were where `he' lived. And I later came up with a name: Kenneth. It means nothing to me now; I am not attached, nor have I verified it, nor do I care to. But I did try.

During my senior year of high school, after only about 1 1/2 years of being a pothead, I knew this was not helping me. I quit, almost cold turkey, and took up drinking, so that I could lose my license, instead. But the weed being out of my system, certainly did me wonders. That didn't stop my awareness of my hippie lifetime, however; I would say it just allowed me to get in touch more clearly, and to start dealing with the karma more responsibly. And so I would visit the West Coast quite often in my dreams, on the astral plane. I can see the beach-house, and areas out there, quite clearly, even now, because of all the recall. I would often visit a cemetary, which I can only believe is the bodiless grave ... where whoever was buried. His casket came back from Vietname empty, because that dude was KIA, and like so many, no remains were returned. I learned some of this via psychometry, or clairvoyance, from an amateur, yet from two or three people putting forth a concerted, join effort, during my college days. It was spontaneous one evening, and there was more **** that night to make the hairs stand on the back of your neck, then perhaps any other night in my life. I KNEW they were tapping into the astral light, and while the astral light is not the Askashic Record (the `Book of God's Remembrance' of the Bible) - and IS subject to glamor and error - I am confident enough that they got the broad brushstrokes correct. You get it? This is NOT where I get 98% of my information. I just allow the 2% from that night to fit in with the rest ... because it DID so, and I was told things that I already knew. I am NOT clairvoyant, or capable of most of those psychic abilities ... so I cannot ascertain this info for myself.

What I can do, is check up on names, and details. So having been given a name, and a variation, I visited the traveling Vietnam Wall Memorial thing, as it came through Asheville, coincidentally, while I was a student at UNCA. I did not find the name I sought. I was not discouraged one bit; it does not matter, it does not change a thing. But I did try. At any rate, I learned - with some of these pieces - what I now accept: I was likely born in or near Akron, Ohio, I suppose ~1950. The family may have been Jewish, though not particularly religious, or Othordox (likely Reformed). I was good on the football field in high school (I don't know what position I played), and I was headed for college on scholarship. I have vivid memories of starting to get high, during that time, and I can visualize right now where I did that, relative to the football field, because that's where I was caught. I lost my scholarship, and my chance to play football in college. I was quite upset. (I have an even earlier memory, one that gives me a chance to use the word palimpsest. It involved me and a class full of students sitting at our benches in shop class, getting ready to use woodburners. I recall the workbench, full of initials, art, and all the impressions made by people prior to me. That sticks with me, for reasons that should become obvious if you are paying attention. I do not remember specific faces, but I could draw that entire room if I had to, because it is CRYSTAL CLEAR.) Anyway, I got into the hippie culture, smoked more weed, and made my way to San Francisco and Haight Ashbury. I was, at some point, a fairly devoted Vaishnava, a `Hare Krishna.' I also sold weed and maybe hash, and I recall the bust - wherein the front of a Karmann Ghia had quite a bit of contraband in it. The judge put it to me thus: "You can spend awhile in jail, and pay lots of $$; or you can be a man, serve your country in Vietnam, and come home `Redeemed.'" When I first heard this account, at about age 20 in college, I did not even know such a thing was possible, nor did I realize how OFTEN this kind of choice was offered. I confirmed that with a family member, at our Reunion, earlier this year. He assured me, "Sure, that happened all the time." And so the hippie dude, as I like to call him, bit the proverbial bullet overseas, and never came back in the flesh. Yet he lives, within me, and friends, HIS SOUL made it to Heaven ... because therein it abides, as does yours, and as does MINE. You get it yet?

​

1. This is much longer than I intended. And I've lost track of this stupid numbering system of mine, so I'll just highlight a few more reasons I say I KNOW we are all reborn. When I say I know, let me clarify - that I do not look to ANY ONE of these memories, or experiences, or events, as the end all, be all, of PROOF. As for why I believe, and say I know, I can only add - that it is ALL OF THIS, together, and the end result, which it has, has had, and continues to have on my waking consicousness, every moment, of every day, of my life. And to cite the Buddha, I believe in these things, because I am moved DEEP DOWN, rather than due to some kind of outside authority, or even some kind of deep, spiritual inspiration ... or the teachings of some supposedly enlightened, great & holy Teacher. NOT EVEN THE BUDDHA can make me believe in Reincarnation ... UNLESS my OWN reason, TELLS ME - that it is so.

Thus, I also believe (and know, if you like), because of:

• A fully conscious, WAKING VISION, which I had at about age 20, in the Botannical Gardens, at UNC Asheville. As a student there, I was studying and meditating in the Gardens, and out of nowhere, so to speak, the KNIGHT TEMPLAR rode up on a horse, and he drew his sword. This, he threw down, without getting off his horse, planting the sword firmly in the ground, in a gesture which I understood clearly as the proverbial passing of the torch. He reared upon his horse, turned, and galloped away ... and I think he regarded me, probably quite keenly, before he did so. Either way, this was a vision of sorts, though it was completely internal, so to speak. I saw `nothing,' but rather, experienced it. And I assure you, I know WHO that Templar was. He was making it clear, that although I would be in communication with my Soul, he was no longer an instrument for Soul contact. And the sword ... was the indication of my responsibility, which he (or rather, the Soul, using him as a symbol) had now clearly handed to me. Does this prove rebirth? No. It just cements what I have already said, and helps put things into context. This was ~15 years ago, and I have not `seen' the Templar, ever since. His name, btw, was Andre de Montbard, uncle of Bernard de Clairvaux. He was one of the nine, Founding members of the original Knights Templar. And one of the good friends I mentioned earlier, was Robert the Burgundian, another of the nine (if I am not mistaken), while another was Hugh de Payens, THE Founding Knight ... as a fourth Brother & friend of mine may have been either Godefroi de Bouillon or Godfrey of Saint-Omer. All of this, while sounding very glamorous (and once it was a delight to me), actually brings with it a tremendous karma ... including responsibility, and quite a burden - IF it is true, of course. There is even a connection here, with the Spear of Longinus, which pierced the side of Christ ... but I will not say more.
• I continued to make many contacts, whom I recognized as either former friends from my time in Vietnam (a small handful), or as fellow Knights Templar, or perhaps as others from that same medieval lifetime (we have, most of us, had such a lifetime during that era, wherever it may have been). The point is, there was a time in my life when - if I could not immediately identify who you might have been, and how we had known each other, there was nonetheless a great deal of awareness and recognition as to that reality. Some of it was glamored, but I also learned how to cut through much of that, and make better recognitions. And some of my closest friends strike no chord with me whatsoever, except in the PRESENT, as their current personalities. I know of one Initiate, for instance (3rd Degree), a definite advanced member in her Master's Ashram, who Shines like the proverbial sun, and Loves beautifully and simply ... yet she has only ever been ____ to me, and I have caught a single glimpse of another lifetime.

(cont'd)

 

[Dondi]

Wow, Andrew, when I asked, you sure delivered. But, of course, silly me. What? Did I think you were going to give a simple answer?

That’s quite an fascinating account, Andrew. I must say, I’ve never experienced anything thing quite like you have. I find it interesting that your impressions of a past life have been of someone with such nobility as a Knight Templar. Why do I not find that surprising? Just how many Knight’s Templar were there? And how many were actually friends with one of the founders?

I’m trying not to doubt you, but it seems curious that many who claim to have a past life often conjure up people of significant standing like generals, barons, wealthy merchants, one of the signers of the Constitution, or, say…knights. Yeah, that’s it! I was a knight in my former life. What do you know!

Although I suppose one could say that the reason for this is that such grand figures are more apt to create such a positive karmic aura that it would have a greater impression upon later lives and thus “remember” more often through regression, whereas, less karmic lives would be only a wisp of non-significance.

I must have not have created much of an impression myself in the past. Perhaps I was an under-aged drummer boy in the bugle corp in the Confederate army. Just not noble enough to produce any grand visions.

I’m not doubting that you’ve had visions or impressions such as these, but you have to admit, it does come off a little dubious, if you look at it objectively.

You did pique my curiosity when you spoke of the hippy turned Vietnam vet causality. Equipped with the scant information you were able to provide, I did some research to see if I could determine a match from certain parameters. I went to The Vietnam Veterans Wall Memorial website and click on “Search the Wall” to see if I could get a hit by filling out “Kenneth” and “Ohio” as home of record. I did find 5 or 6 pages of names. Only a few from around the Akron area, and even fewer with a “1950” birthdate (though I figure plus or minus 5 years in the equation). But alas, all the bodies have been recovered. I then went to another website for POW/KIA/MIA listings and looked up A-Z all the “Kenneth”s taking into account such factors as time of service and rank (my guess is that this Kenneth would not have had much in the way of rank due to the circumstances to which he enlisted, namely join or go to jail). So I eliminated officers and other significant ranks. But again, I could find no one that fits you description.

Not that it couldn’t have happened. Maybe it is a simple matter of giving the wrong name. And of course, you said yourself that you’re not out to prove anything, and neither am I, really. And that’s OK. But it sure would have made a better story if there had been a positive hit.

 

[taijasi]

Dondi,

I appreciate the sincere, earnest and candid response. I was interrupted yesterday, and did not get to post part 3 (lol) ... but it's mostly typed, so I'll do that soon. Before I do that, however, I am much more interested in replying to what you've said. Again, thanks for your patience, your curiosity ... and also the willingness to suspend disbelief - long enough to at least punch around on the Vietnam War Memorial website. I'll reply to that part in a sec:

That’s quite an fascinating account, Andrew. I must say, I’ve never experienced anything thing quite like you have. I find it interesting that your impressions of a past life have been of someone with such nobility as a Knight Templar. Why do I not find that surprising? Just how many Knight’s Templar were there? And how many were actually friends with one of the founders?

Do consider that there were only 8 or 9 founding Templars. This will, naturally enough, make it seem highly incredible or unlikely that I could have been one of them, let alone that I have also managed to meet another 2 or 3 of those 8 or 9!!! However, this unlikelihood only counts if we are just examing my cases statistically. And if you accept the teaching (as I do) which has been presented in esoteric writings from pre-Theosophical days on up to the present, it will actually make perfect sense that I could have met a handful of fellow previous-Templars ... because Souls reincarnate in groups. These are called `Egoic Groups,' in the teachings of Alice Bailey and Lucille Cedercrans, and this idea was first popularized on a large scale by the Theosophists ... yet it will be found in Eastern literature, as well.

The only really baffling notion, or the one that seems the most questionable, would be, as you've said, how likely is it that such a "noble" or prestigious (famous) lifetime just happens to have been one of mine. I can only answer that question by a simple appeal to logic - and for the rest, you would only have to get to know me better (and then decide). The logic says, if we are ALL reincarnated, then - sooner or later - until that Soul reaches Liberation/Final Salvation, all of those original 8 or 9 Knights Templar, too, must reincarnate. Therefore, SOMEONE upon the planet, sooner or later, can and will be able to say, "I was so and so." They may or may not realize that, of course ... depending on various circumstances. But your objection, while a common one (why was EVERYONE Cleopatra? ) ... must be considered alongside the overall esoteric teaching on Rebirth. And as I say, that states, that sooner or later, we are ALL reborn (until Liberation).

Btw, the initital 8 or 9 were only the founding Knights Templar. There went on to be hundreds of thousands of them. At their height, they were the most powerful political & religious organization on the face of the Earth - more powerful, even, than the Catholic Church. And that is why Philip le Bel collaborated with the very evil Pope of the time (Clement V), and had the Templars arrested on false charges. The Templars lasted from 1118 to 1307, having some 23 Grand Masters during that time. Andre de Montbard was the 5th of these.

I’m trying not to doubt you, but it seems curious that many who claim to have a past life often conjure up people of significant standing like generals, barons, wealthy merchants, one of the signers of the Constitution, or, say…knights. Yeah, that’s it! I was a knight in my former life. What do you know!

Although I suppose one could say that the reason for this is that such grand figures are more apt to create such a positive karmic aura that it would have a greater impression upon later lives and thus “remember” more often through regression, whereas, less karmic lives would be only a wisp of non-significance.

You should doubt, and ask questions, and be skeptical in a healthy, reasonable way. This is not the same as denial, and it is far better than blind credulity and gullibility. I have continued to ask questions, and to entertain a healthy level of skepticism, unto the present moment. But what I cannot do, is disregard my experiences and my findings. I agree that it is ridiculous that so many people want to have been Napoleon, or Cleopatra, Hitler or Jesus. Clearly, this is absurd. I may be wrong about every single detail I've given about my own past lives. What I am infinitely confident about, is that we are all reborn!

Your speculation about creating positive karma, and having this come through in a later lifetime, is sound logic in my book. It makes good sense. But also add to that, the notion that particularly traumatic events, whatever these may happen to be, will create a negative resonance, and these, too, may be pulled through in a future lifetime - either as direct memories, or more likely (and far more often) as disturbing or negative behavior patterns, habits, phobias and fears, etc. This is particularly evident in young children, who remain far more open to the influence of previous lives, until the more enlightened adult parents, here in the West, tell their children that such things are complete nonsense (or else treat the problem behavior in some other way). Or, to look at the positive, we have a child prodigy, the gifted scientist, or concert pianist, who may remember nothing, yet has been able to tap these talents - these gifts - developed during previous lifetimes.

I must have not have created much of an impression myself in the past. Perhaps I was an under-aged drummer boy in the bugle corp in the Confederate army. Just not noble enough to produce any grand visions.

I’m not doubting that you’ve had visions or impressions such as these, but you have to admit, it does come off a little dubious, if you look at it objectively.

Let me just try to put this into context. The most recent of the lifetimes I claim to have remembered, mentioned below, is not particularly glamorous, is it? In fact, the notion that I came from an ordinary American family background, of moderate income, then lost a football scholarship for smoking dope, then went on to get busted for selling/using drugs on the West Coast, only to get my ass shot off in Vietnam - dying a premature death (which is really karma, and the Soul's way of aborting an incarnation which could no longer be productive, due to my drug habits) ... you have to admit, all of this is certainly less than auspicious, and for someone that considers himself a relatively old Soul (key word: RELATIVELY), boy did I sure GOOF UP!!!

But let us go back, two lives even prior. I mentioned being IN A HAREM. Well, what I didn't go into, in detail, because it is quite uncomfortable, are the memories, feelings, and various associations which accompany that lifetime. Let me assure you, the bulk of what has come through, has been unpleasant. The idea that I was pretty much a concubine during my adult life, is one of the most unfortunate sets of circumstances which I can possibly imagine! That lifetime, incidentally, has one of the strongest karmic connections with my present lifetime ... and continues to present some of my greatest challenges, perhaps in relationship to the most recent one, wherein drug habits got totally out of hand.

So you see, I would hardly describe these two sets of memories - separated by about 18 centuries - as being glamorous, or grand, or even particularly significant ... except to me, as a Soul, seeking to work out my difficulties, and move, spiritually, toward whom and what I am meant to become.

You did pique my curiosity when you spoke of the hippy turned Vietnam vet causality. Equipped with the scant information you were able to provide, I did some research to see if I could determine a match from certain parameters. ...

Again, thanks for looking. I would point out a couple of things, though, for clarification ... and maybe clear up something I should not have stated. I can't be sure I was born in Akron, but I do think I would have been listed as from that approximate area. That is where I concentrated my search, 15+ years ago. I also just guess that 1950 was a birthdate, so you were right to use +/- 5 years. And actually, I don't really know that the casket which came back was empty. I thought my quasi-psychic/clairvoyant friend in college said this, but what he may actually have said was, `sealed.' If the body that was in that thing was fairly mutilated, or shot full of holes, etc. ... they would have sealed it, I think. So MIA might not apply. There should definitely be a few hits, but I can't even remember what I found when visiting the traveling Memorial in A'ville, 15 years ago. But no, I don't suspect that guy advanced much in rank, unless it was an on-the-spot promotion due to the CO next to him getting sniped out on the battlefield. Such things can happen, of course. And, his name might as well have been Sydney; I really don't know for sure that it was Kenneth at all!

I will commment here, because I'll post my 3rd part of yesterdays' account later, that the earliest past-life memories which I have, are also, not particularly glamorous, or even 100% pleasant ... as if I was some kind of exceptional person, or enlightened individual. What is far more suspect, I recognize, is to say something like, "Oh, btw, I've met fifteen people who were quite famous in their past lives!" And what I didn't really even mention, is that of 2 or 3 of those, whom I specifically told, "I think you were x," both of those people were quite familiar with who I said they had been, but they both denied having been x, vigorously! Of note, however, is that both of these people are believers in rebirth, and both of them are Initiates (of the 3rd Degree) ... very `Old Souls,' so to speak, and advanced members in their Masters' Ashram. I can find specific quotes, in the Tibetan's Teaching via Alice Bailey, wherein it is mentioned that even advanced Disicples will sometimes come into incarnation with no recollection of their previous lifetimes. The reason, is that it would only prove to be a distraction, a source of ego, or an impediment ... if in some cases, throngs of followers and devotees flocked to the Tulku in question. And this does happen, quote often, actually, when a high Lama from Tibet is pronounced as having been discovered, and enthroned. Best cases in point: HH the Dalai Lama, and the Panchen (tashi) Lama.

The two Arhat Teachers I've mentioned, have NEVER spoken to me about even possibly having been x, or y. If they were, then it is my discernment which has led to that discovery ... presumably in line with Soul intent. But each of these Teachers is also silent, openly at least, about who they might happen to have been 100 or 2100 years ago. And they would never divulge their status in the Hierarchy, either, unless it were in some way helpful for those particular circumstances. Nor am I free to even suggest their present identity, or location, etc.

But where all of this leads, is that one can begin to see a trend, which I think is objective, and worth paying attention to, and fairly well addresses your questions and observations, Dondi, with regard to previous lives of note, vs. ordinary, humdrum existences. We should remember, that according to the teachings, EVERY incarnation is important, since even the most hardened criminal, or an extremely wicked person, will advance his Soul's Holy Cause somewhat, just by choosing to LIVE, rather than abort his own incarnation (via suicide). We make far more progress, when we willingly, gladly and joyously accept our Soul's guidance and discipline. But every lifetime is an important and a useful one.

The fact that once a Soul reaches a fairly advanced stage of development, its personality lives are better, and more widely known, only stands to reason, and fits naturally with God's Plan. Something about, not hiding one's Light under a bushel! The case of the enlightened, or advanced Teacher, or Master, is actually almost an exception to the rule, because it represents our spiritual evolution at the extreme end of development ... and you and I (I will venture), are nowhere near that pole of our Soul's evolution. We may well incarnate as five famous and well-known holy figures, or saints, long before we have a lifetime wherein it becomes necessary to work from somewhat behind the scenes, in order not to be distracted by a foolish following.

To give two examples of what I'm talking about, based on esoteric teachings, including direct indications provided by several Masters, consider the following series of incarnations for two of the best-known of the Elder Brothers. These are their known incarnations, moving from present embodiment to earlier embodiments. I'll post this in an immediate follow-up ...

 

[Bruce Michael]

Would you be so kind to post a link to this in it's original context?

Where did you get it from, have you a book if you didn't find it online?

I know his works are online, so even if you have a book and can tell me the chapter I may beable to find it in it's context and save you posting the whole context.

Thanks.

Paul

Dear Br.Paul,
There is more infortmation in the Encyclopedia Britannica "Pre-Existence"- apparently.
That quote from Gregory is in The Great Catechism, Chapter 35. You see, in the first five centuries the Church thought it OK to believe in reincarnation ; but then a decision was made to throw the idea out.


Biblical Research Institute - A Study in Immortality - Lazarus and the Rich Man

With Clement of Alexandria (150-220 CE) the idea of reincarnation was the majority opinion of the Eastern Faith. He writes, "We were in being long before the foundation of the world; we existed in the eye of God, for it is our destiny to live in Him. We are the reasonable creatures of the Divine Word. Therefore, we have existed from the beginning, for in the beginning was the Word... Not for the first time does he show pity on us in our wanderings. He pitied us from the very beginning"

(Clement, Exhortation to the Pagans).

As early as Justin Martyr (100? - c.165 CE) we read in his Dialogue With Trypho that the soul inhabits more than once a human body, but that it cannot recall previous life experiences. Although obviously tampered with by "Christians" of the later Constantine Church, his writings make it clear that he believed in transmigration or metempsychosis (reincarnation). Concerning Justin, Britannica states that in the early Christian era adherents of reincarnation were known as "the Pre-existents" or "Pre-existiani" and it confirms that Justin Martyr was one of these

(Encyc. Britannica 1959 edition art. "Pre-Existence").

In the 3rd century, Chalcidius taught, “Souls who have failed to unite themselves with God, are compelled by the law of destiny to begin a new kind of life, entirely different from their former, until they repent of their sins.”

Arnobius (A.D. 290) said, “We die many times, and often do we rise from the dead.” (Adversus Gentes)

-Br.Bruce

 

[taijasi]

These sequences of lives are:

1. `Master Jesus,' the Syrian Adept (a Syrian incarnation, dating to early 20th Century, 6th Degree Initiate)
2. Ramanujacharya (Indian saint, 11th Century)
3. Appollonius of Tyana (Greek philosopher, healer, teacher, 1st Century, 5th Degree Initiate - Adept)
4. Jesus of Nazareth (the Galilean Initiate, ~105BC - 78BC, taking the 4th Initiation - Arhat)
5. Joshua (as in the Book of Zechariah: taking the 3rd Initiation)
6. Jeshua (from the time of Ezra)
7. Joshua (Son of Nun, time of Moses, clearly an Initiate)

And for the Comte de St. Germain, much glamorized by the `I AM' movement, the following series of lives proves most likely:

1. `Master R.,' the Count (a Hungarian/Transylvanian incarnation - Prince Rákóczy, dating to the 18th Century, 7th Degree Initiate)
2. Sir Francis Bacon (philospher, statesman, author, 17th Century, 4th Degree Initiate, maybe 5th)
3. Robert I Estienne/Robert Stephens (Robertus the Monk, 16th Century)
4. Janos Hunyadi/John Hunyadi (The White Knight, ruler of Transylvania, 15th Century)
5. Christian Rosencreutz (Founder of Rosicrucianism, 14th Century)
6. Sir Roger Bacon (`Doctor Mirabilis' - Wonderful Teacher, Franciscan friar, philosopher, advocate of Scientific Method, 13th Century)
7. Proclus (Greek Neoplatonic philosopher, 5th Century)
8. St. Alban (British saint, martyred, 4th Century, clearly an Initiate)

Note that we have been allowed to gain insight into SEVEN lifetimes, for these two particular Masters (or eight, in the case of Master R.). As you will see in my last post (a bit later), I have been able to glimpse - with some detail - into SEVEN lifetimes, also. I propose that this is a CYCLE for the Soul ... one, complete cycle, which the Soul looks at as a whole, in terms of what is to be accomplished, and overcome - rather than seeing each, individual lifetime, separately, as we tend to do. Also note, I am FAR, FAR from being a Master, or even an advance Initiate, as was certainly the case for the above two Great Ones. At best, perhaps I am in a cycle or two which precedes the ones that are listed above? Only speculation ...

(3rd part of yesterday's post to come later, FWIW)

 

[paul]

Bruce Michael,

It would help if you posted maybe links to their context on maybe the ccel.org website

I have to go to bed now, but I'll see if I can find their orginal context with what you've given me tommorow.

You really should only use sources to prove things if you've read them yourself in their orginal context, otherwise you don't really know what they've said.

 

[Bruce Michael]

But what difference and relevance does it have to have one life and then another, and remember nothing of the life before?

If you can't remember your love and your mistakes, then what is the point of reincarnation?

But what difference and relevance does it have to have one life and then another, and remember nothing of the life before?

If you can't remember your love and your mistakes, then what is the point of reincarnation?

You wouldn't want to be lost in the past would you? Increasingly folk are remembering.

If you look at the statistics, you'll find that Christians everywhere are entertaining the possibility of repeated earth lives.

On the Law of Karma:

"Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
- Galatians (6:7)

Revelation 13:10 gives us a good example of Karma as it is applied:
"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword."

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
- Matthew (5:18)

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."
- Luke (16:17)

"He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully."
- 2 Corinthians (9:6)

"God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time for every purpose and for every work."
- Ecclesiastes (3:17)

"Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment."
- Ecclesiastes (11:9)

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."
- Hosea (8:7)

"Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same."
- Job (4:8)

“Your sins will find you out”
– Numb. 32:23.

“For He will repay Everyman for what he has done"
– Matt. 16:27.

“Cast your bread upon the waters and you will find it after many days”
– Eccl. 11:1.

21 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought upon Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought upon it. 23 You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign LORD."
– Ezekiel. 14:21-23.


Augustine Confessions 6:9:

tell me, O merciful One, in pity tell a pitiful creature whether my infancy
followed yet an earlier age of my life that had already passed
away before it. Was it such another age which I spent in my
mother's womb? For something of that sort has been suggested to
me, and I have myself seen pregnant women. But what, O God, my
Joy, preceded _that_ period of life? Was I, indeed, anywhere, or
anybody? No one can explain these things to me, neither father
nor mother, nor the experience of others, nor my own memory. Dost
thou laugh at me for asking such things?

And finally, a strong message of support from Dr. Steiner:

"Just as an age was ready to receive the Copernican theory of the universe, so is our own age ready for the ideas of reincarnation and karma to be brought into the general consciousness of humanity. And what is destined to happen in the course of evolution will happen no matter what powers rise up against it."

- Rudolf Steiner

-Br.Bruce

 

[taijasi]

Part of the KEY may be given, and has been, in this early contribution on the process of Reincarnation. The chapter provided takes the form of a Q&A, between a skeptical enquirer and the Founder of the modern Theosophical Movement, labeled as `Theosophist.'

The Key to Theosophy - Section 8

Best of luck,

~Andrew

 

[Dondi]

Andrew,

I am a bit confused about something. Would you agree that your incarnation as a Knight Templer to be a noble one? If that is the case, why would you be reincarnated to somewhat a lower statue as in the case of a harem member or drug hippie vet? Would you rather progress rather digress as your soul learns?

AND, from what you say about being reincarnated almost immediately from the drug hippie vet, you evidently didn't learn from your previous drug use, seeing as you explored that avenue in your current life. Or have you?

 

[Bruce Michael]

There is detailed book on the subject of reincarnation available on Edward Reaugh Smith's site- he is the author.
A little taste from his website:

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He replied, “Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. (Mt)

On its face, this passage seems clearly to speak of the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist. And as would be expected, it has been the focus of much dialectic. The Old Testament’s closing prophecy was that Elijah would return “before the great and terrible day of the Lord” (Mal 4,5). Either that prophecy must be nullified, or “the great and terrible day of the Lord” had no reference (contrary to Jesus’ clear implication above) to the Christ event, or Elijah was reincarnated as John the Baptist.

-Br.Bruce

 

[Bruce Michael]

When looking at our past life, and past lives, we must really be careful in discerning what is real and what is genuine.

An example of the guilely technique of implanting false memories, has been under study by Professor Elizabeth Loftus.

"She's Professor of Psychology at the University of Washington, Seattle. One of her studies was with Russians and their memories of the Moscow terrorist bombings in 1999."

What Professor Loftus did in her experiments was to show people advertisements for Disneyland, in which the character `Bugs Bunny' is pictured and people talk about meeting him and shaking his hand. "When subjects later reviewed the ad.," says Professor Loftus, "and said whether they liked it or not, many of them claimed that they had met Bugs Bunny at Disneyland. This of course would be impossible because Bugs Bunny is a character which belongs to a different corporation – the Warner Brothers."

After carrying out several similar experiments, Professor Loftus calculated how many had fallen for the trick. "The percentage of people who believed – falsely – that they had met Bugs ranged from 16% in one set of experiments to 40% in another. These figures are high and they show that we can be influenced by autobiographical sorts of ads."

The Health Report: 24 February  2003  - False Memories and Alien Abductions


Elizabeth Loftus:

One of the things that we attempted to do with these Russian subjects, is to plant a false detail into their memories. There is a common belief out there that somehow traumatic memories are immune from memory distortion, that they leave some sort
of fixed image in the brain. We don't believe this and the study that we just completed showed that for these Russian subjects, trying to remember the terrorist bombings in Moscow, we were able to convince a significant minority of them, 12-1/2%, that they had seen and told us about a wounded animal. When they did come up with this false memory of a wounded animal, many of them were willing to imbue it with quite a bit of detail. Because we often get the criticism, `Maybe what you've done with your manipulation, is you've revived a true memory, instead of planting a false one.' I and other investigators have tried to come up with some ways of planting memories that would be impossible.

"One of the techniques that we have developed for doing this is to try to make people believe that when they went to Disneyland as children, they met and shook hands with Bugs Bunny, and we do this by having them review and evaluate a fake advertisement that has a picture of Bugs Bunny, right near the Magic Castle, and has text that they review about the highlight of your trip to Disney was meeting and shaking hands with Bugs Bunny. Well Bugs could never be at
Disneyland because, as I'm sure you know, Bugs is a Warner Brothers character and wouldn't be allowed at Disneyland. And yet we have now found a way to get 36% of our subjects to tell us they met and shook hands with Bugs Bunny. When we probed them for more details, `Tell us a little bit more; what exactly happened when you met Bugs, did you shake his hand? Did you hug him? Did you touch his ear?' And so on. Many of them will describe their detailed experiences, interacting with Bugs, a memory that has to be impossible."
​

-Br.Bruce

 

[taijasi]

Andrew,

I am a bit confused about something. Would you agree that your incarnation as a Knight Templer to be a noble one? If that is the case, why would you be reincarnated to somewhat a lower statue as in the case of a harem member or drug hippie vet? Would you rather progress rather digress as your soul learns?

I do see your point, Dondi, yet I think I can explain. When considering the long, long sequence of incarnations which a Soul undergoes, we should be careful to judge their relative value - and nobility, or significance - from the world of spiritual verities, and not in terms of outward positions of fame, reward or earthly accomplishment. The latter frame of reference is more representative of what we, the PERSONALITY, wish and desire might happen to us. But for the Soul, the desire (or aspiration), is really only that the Spiritual WILL might work itself out in the world of Humanity, lovingly so, and for the benefit of the entire planet (all Kingdoms of life considered).

Now in order for the latter to happen, there MUST and WILL BE conflict with what the personality desires. The path of least resistance, which is always easier and more convenient for us to follow, is in direct antithesis to the Way of Sacrifice, which is the method of Soul progression. This Sacrifice is something that becomes increasingly Joyful, yet the very nature of our struggles is in learning the relative value of Spiritual gain, vs. earthly rewards, and short-term gains, because they only consider the benefit of the separated self, the mortal & evanescent personality.

And this is what Christ meant when He cautioned us about outward attainments vs. laying up our treasure in Heaven, knowing that many would recognize the significance in terms of the Law of Rebirth. Nevertheless, it is true that when we say treasure, some people still cannot quite see beyond the selfish, or personality-centered reward, such that they will either insist on material gain, or will at least want to know, "What's in it for me?" I would suggest that we must learn to become increasingly comfortable with an answer to the latter question that runs something like, "Service to others is its own reward."

This may seem like an evasion of our question, but I will add something that may help to clarify. It corresponds with things I have learned about the path of Service in this, present lifetime of mine, and it is something I am confident I have seen demonstrated on a larger, even global scale ... as well as in the lives of friends and fellow servers whom I have had the great Joy to have gotten to know over the years.

This observation is that, often when we make some noticeable amount of spiritual progress, this will be followed by a corresponding period of apparent darkness, or of what we might aptly call challenge. The best way to understand this, I have learned, is to perceive it for what it is: an OPPORTUNITY for learning and growth. In truth, we are being tested, in order to see just how well, and how determinedly, we will apply the new measure of Light, Love and spiritual Strength which our Soul has won. And this is not easy, for it is not meant to be easy.

The most Joyous, Wonderful and Beautiful experience I can possibly imagine, while still on the earth in a physical body, would have marked my (Soul's) experiences in the lifetime I have mentioned from ~2100 years ago. It is therefore not surprising to me, that this would have been followed by a very challenging - yet potentially rewarding - opportunity ... to put into practice what I had just learned, and garnered in (to the Temple not built with human hands, the `Temple of Solomon,' the `Soul or Causal body,' which is known as the Alaya-Vijnana in Sanskrit).

As a woman being brought into a harem in Persia, where the Mazdaean religion was still recognized and widely practiced at that time, any number of karmic - and Dharmic - lessons might have been available. One that certainly comes to mind, from a more philosophical, or deeper point of view, would have been the chance to ascertain, firsthand, that all which I had just recently learned (as a Soul) ... was quite well known to the neighboring cultures of another religious context and background. There is a duality inherent in Zoroastrian philosophy and practice quite parallel to the Judeo-Christian Good-Evil duality, and I think it was important for me to absorb that in a way - which could only be brought about by direct experience.

It may be asked, why a woman in a harem? Why not the privileged daughter of the sultan, with excellent teachers at her beck and call? How could the soul descend to such a low position, after - the lifetime that had just passed?

But our mistake is in making the judgment based on what happens to the personality, to begin with.

When Christ was asked how He might best be served by a young man who was listening attentively at one of his sermons, and who clearly had great faith in the Speaker, Christ's response - in reference to Himself - was, "The Son of Man comes not to be served, but to Serve." And this is what Christ wishes most, that we all might learn ... and practice.

The choice of the Soul to take upon itself a lifetime which the personality would experience as hardship, in no way lessens the status of that Soul, either in the eyes of the Father, or in the eyes of one's fellow Souls. For if that were the case, then Christ would surely be the lowest among us, and the most vain and glorious amongst us would be the most enlightened.

Did Christ not also say, "He among you who would seek to be first, shall be last"? Therefore, he who puts the needs of others ahead of himself, in loving Service, shall be first in the Kingdom of God ... for he shall be at the forefront, on account of his great humility, and his diligence.

But these things have not been accepted, and the Wisdom of God has not been applied.

~+~+~

In the case of the Knight Templar, Andre de Montbard, I really do not know all of the details of this lifetime. But if there were Saracens slain, then despite the fact that this would have been in wartime, when world karma affects groups differently than it would do otherwise (as far as individual murder is concerned), there is still a definite debt, or countering, of God's Laws, which admonish those who murder ... and ultimately reward those who Love. So you see, I'm not quite sure if that was a life of such high nobility as you suggest, Dondi. I tend to smile, and perhaps glamorize it a bit, yet I know there was darkness, too, associated with that lifetime. Anyone who has killed in battle, no matter how well he understands the circumstances, or repeats to himself, "It was them or me, them or me," will forever have to live with himself, and make peace - sooner or later - with his own conscience. But just how much peace can there be, when we recognize a person to be our own BROTHER, despite the outer differences, such as religion, skin color, or hair style?

The Templars learned much about their Muslim counterparts, and while they may have appeared as fierce enemies on the battlefield, they held each other in highest spiritual regard, and surely recognized that each was worshipping the same God. Some may have been convinced of this more deeply than others, or may have had varying degrees of testimony to this fact, but it should be remembered, that whoever happened to control Jerusalem at a given time, the members of the opposite Faith were always allowed to seek Refuge there, and worship. Besides that, consider the movie, `Kingdom of Heaven,' in which Legolas - whatever his name was - finally meets up, at the end, with Saladin (Salah al-Dīn) on the battlefield, to negotiate for the surrender of the Holy City. No matter quite how it actually played itself out, that movie does an excellent job of capturing the Wisdom and the Respect, the Honor and the practicality, which the Templar and the Saracen forces mutually came to embrace and embody - and express with regard to one another.

As for a drugged-out hippie following such a lifetime, that is not quite how the life started, that is only how it ended. And for all I know, that dude might have saved somebody's neck in the jungles of Vietnam, whether stoned - or not. The life, as I say, was most likely aborted, because the human constitution can only stand so much damage ... and so much abuse, before there is really no longer a fit vehicle for the Soul to work through. But worst of all, is the repeated ignoring of the Soul's calls of warning, and summons to Service, which the personality is of course - ever at liberty to demonstrate. This so-called `free will,' if not vigilantly guarded and ever-consecrated anew to the Services of the Soul (and Higher Self, or `God'), can eventually lose, or at least loosen, its connection with its parent Soul, and this may well be why my last lifetime ended abrubtly. Or, then again, there may have been opportunities in Vietnam which were of greater usefulness to the Soul than what I was getting into back on the West Coast of the United States, I dunno.

But failure as that lifetime may have been, in one sense, it should be emphasized that for the Soul, every investment meets with some reward. The `estimate,' so to speak, may have been for 200 bushels of corn, and say, 50 bushels of beans, and thus if I only produced 12 bushels and 5 bushels, respectively, I am behind, in one sense ... yet a new lifetime, wherein the new expectation is lowered, may end up with my producing a surplus. It is of course, difficult or impossible to try and reduce the Wisdom and the planning of the Soul (ultimately, therefore, of God - and the Infinite Mercy and Perfect Love of the Divine Plan) to some kind of mere formula. But I do think that we may safely say, that all these things are well enough accounted for in the great beyond, so that as we return, life after life, we can be assured - and Grateful - that God is `looking out for us.'

The folks who join the Peace Corp, and visit countries where there is no MTV, there is perhaps even no running water, there is all but no infrastructure, or stable economy, or even a stable means of food production ...

... you see, I don't think many of these folks, who join such an organization, are concerned about how much they are "getting" out of it, in the same way that say - the guy who comes into Best Buy, is asking, "What can I GET for my $5000, if I buy this Panasonic plasma TV, vs. the same amount spent for this here Toshiba projection TV?"

The one person, to whatever degree, understands that Humanity is One Entity, and there is but one, Great Soul underlying all of Life on planet Earth ... though manifesting through countless, individualized (human) lives - some poor, some rich, some male, some female, some smiling, some frowning, etc. And this one person, the Server, is dedicated to embodying the Will, the Light, and the Love of the One Soul, ever more & more so, to the best of his or her ability, at whatever cost or personal sacrifice (`MAKING SACRED,' as that word indicates).

But the other person, while not directly cooperating with evil - represented in this (Aquarian) by selfishness and by materialism - is nonetheless dedicated to a stage of Humanity's PAST, wherein the "needs of the lesser self" are still allowed to outweigh the needs of the Greater Self (SOUL), or in fact - even the needs of the many, or the Whole.

Amazing in a sense, and it does, understandably, lead many a person who has been raised on Judeo-Christian ideals & values, especially with the traditional, monotheistic interpretation and presentation of `a personal God,' to ask: "How, and why, has this been allowed to happen?"

Only a Soul-centered philosophy and theology, which properly takes into account the Immortality of every Human individual, AS A SOUL ... and the overall relation of the Immortal Soul to God, and God's Eternal Presence ... can properly respond to, this kind of natural, inevitable line of questioning.