Christians are Free to Accept Reincarnation

Dondi said:
AND, from what you say about being reincarnated almost immediately from the drug hippie vet, you evidently didn't learn from your previous drug use, seeing as you explored that avenue in your current life. Or have you?
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I have learned some, I have applied some. But there is also a difference between repeating the same old, identical mistakes, or perhaps repeating them ad infinitum ... vs. making a mistake, maybe even two or three times, then realizing that this is a famliar pattern, and an unpleasant one, and then taking ACTION to redirect this energy (into something healthier, more constructive, more SOULful).

So, while I am not perfect, not even remotely close, and yes - I still make some mistakes even far too often - I like to believe that I HAVE learned a great deal, and there are some things which I cannot even possibly imagine doing again, in this particular lifetime.

But also consider - that with God, all things are possible (allowing, obviously, for what is called karma, which operates even at the Planetary, or Divine level, just as at the Human). What this means, is that - I suspect - HAD I been willing to set aside certain bad habits, soon enough, and well enough, 40 some years ago, I might not have had to get shipped off to Vietnam, and even despite negative consequences (for this is always the case with drug usage) ... that life could have been one of continued, or increased service.

Just also try to imagine, that however close we might - lots of us - be getting relatively speaking, to the close of the last few cycles of lifetimes ... we are not really, not at all, at the END. It does not take some kind of deep, hyper-intellectual realization, and certainly not a strictly Wisdom-centered insight, illumination or awakening, for the outward personality to recognize - and to begin to respond - to the Inward CALL, of the Soul, toward Service.

{If I do not stress that Service, in my understanding, is also the very Path of Joy, of Bliss, of Unity - or Unification, and of Oneness, then forgive me ... this is my oversight, and it probably needs mention, on its own. SERVICE, which has yet to receive proper treatment and emphasis in exoteric religious theology, always manages somehow to get lost in worship, or in tithing, or in charitable acts. And while all three of these may have their place, I believe that only SERVICE properly integrates them, and ultimately relates them, to the Greater Life in Whom we live, and move, and have our Being ... and Whose Purpose, we are all coming to recognize.}

A long answer :)eek: :p) to your 2nd question would perhaps require a deeper investigation into the various types or groupings of human beings whom and which reincarnate. The Theosophists, of course, have tried to make just such investigations, and I personally think that much can be learned from them. However, I have quoted the Tibetan Master, writing via Alice Bailey, as indicating that much of this research was carried out from a more or less astral point of view, or bias/basis ... and that it is therefore either inaccurate, or misleading, if not just flat wrong. So, everything with a grain of salt.

But part of what I'm getting at, for example, with respect to types and groups of Souls that reincarnate, would include a reference to the particular karma which is currently affecting any given nation, or geographic region, which we wish to consider ... as well as the overall living conditions, and opportunities available for the people amidst those conditions, as this relates to Soul evolution.

As it was described to me several years ago by a fellow esotericist, the needs of the world today are incredibly great. Many advanced Souls, which would not otherwise take incarnation, or take them in the present circumstances, are nonetheless making enormous sacrifices, and are coming into expression to help with world need. In other cases, there are many young souls, or `immature Souls' (a misleading phrase, difficult to explain, but young in terms of experience is perhaps best), which are accepting almost any incarnation available, even in the most appalling and meagre of conditions, simply because it affords them a modicum of experience and progress. We can only picture, in the latter case, the Souls which are born already drug-addicted, or are born with no guarantee even of a first meal, let alone a second, or a third.

A Soul, it should be remember, has a karmic right, based on its prior evolution and spiritual accomplishments, and can always refuse an incarnation, if that birth is deemed too lowly, or too great a sacrifice. But this must be weighed with what has just been said, and with the reminder (from an esoteric standpoint) that technically, our Soul is "already a Master, on its own plane." From one point of view, ours Souls should not seem obligated to take birth at all ... and in my years of study, I have come across a reminder, from the Tibetan Master, that in fact, the Soul's CHOICE to remain with us - incarnation after incarnation - until we, too, attain to the point of (relative) Enlightenment, or Liberation/Salvation ... was and is a VOLUNTARY one (and one NOT needed, in order for the Soul to make its own progress).

All of this, if you are like me, raises more questions, perhaps, than it answers. And at times, I do feel a bit puzzled ... AS IF I were supposed - to have all the answers - or even many of them. :p :eek:

So I continue my studies, and try (somewhat, sometimes) to learn from my mistakes, and to not repeat them (or to do so less often) ... and I ask, What is the next step?

And sometimes, the reminder comes: SERVICE

That, I think, has been the next step (maybe for many of us), for quite some time.

Love and Light,

~Andrew
 
What this means, is that - I suspect - HAD I been willing to set aside certain bad habits, soon enough, and well enough, 40 some years ago, I might not have had to get shipped off to Vietnam, and even despite negative consequences (for this is always the case with drug usage) ... that life could have been one of continued, or increased service.
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I want to touch on one more observation concerning the use of drugs in your particular case. Whereas in your previous incarnation (I'm running with you here for a moment) the drug use was of a recreational nature, and perhaps one leading to addiction or dependence. However, in your current incarnation I seem to recall in a previous thread that you've experimented esoterically with drugs, much in the way Native Americans would use peyote. Not that I'm advocating drug use whatsoever, but it seems to me that there is a shift from getting high as the end to one of getting high as a means for a greater purpose, i.e. to experience something of the spiritual realm. If that is the case, then certain the attitude is a little more mature that just taking drugs for it's own sake.

But also consider - that with God, all things are possible (allowing, obviously, for what is called karma, which operates even at the Planetary, or Divine level, just as at the Human)....But part of what I'm getting at, for example, with respect to types and groups of Souls that reincarnate, would include a reference to the particular karma which is currently affecting any given nation, or geographic region, which we wish to consider ... as well as the overall living conditions, and opportunities available for the people amidst those conditions, as this relates to Soul evolution.
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Interesting. This seems to lend to the idea that karma is not limited to the individual, but is also imposed of whole communities, perhaps even nations. Indeed, all through the Old Testament, Israel suffered collectively when they became disobedient.

That does concern me, for if nations are judged collectively, or if we all share in the karma of the nation in which we abide, then we have a huge responsibility to do what we can to obey the laws and bring positive light in our area of the world for the good of the whole.

And people wonder why Christians cannot leave politics alone, as if we should sit on our laurels and let the country go to hell in a hand basket. We are called to be the Salt of the Earth. Woe to us when that Salt loses it's flavor.

{If I do not stress that Service, in my understanding, is also the very Path of Joy, of Bliss, of Unity - or Unification, and of Oneness, then forgive me ... this is my oversight, and it probably needs mention, on its own. SERVICE, which has yet to receive proper treatment and emphasis in exoteric religious theology, always manages somehow to get lost in worship, or in tithing, or in charitable acts. And while all three of these may have their place, I believe that only SERVICE properly integrates them, and ultimately relates them, to the Greater Life in Whom we live, and move, and have our Being ... and Whose Purpose, we are all coming to recognize.}
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I would be interested in what you consider SERVICE, in more detail, aloft from ideas of tithing, worship, and charitable acts. How are we to involve ourselves in the lives of other people?
 
Dondi said:
I want to touch on one more observation concerning the use of drugs in your particular case. Whereas in your previous incarnation (I'm running with you here for a moment) the drug use was of a recreational nature, and perhaps one leading to addiction or dependence. However, in your current incarnation I seem to recall in a previous thread that you've experimented esoterically with drugs, much in the way Native Americans would use peyote. Not that I'm advocating drug use whatsoever, but it seems to me that there is a shift from getting high as the end to one of getting high as a means for a greater purpose, i.e. to experience something of the spiritual realm. If that is the case, then certain the attitude is a little more mature that just taking drugs for it's own sake.
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Dondi,

It's awful kind of you to paint this picture in this fashion ... and I can sort of agree with what you're saying - at least in principle. But I'd have to say that there's a good bit of difference between what I've done, drug-wise, in this incarnation ... and pretty much what any legitimate medicine man or woman, of any Native American (or otherwise indigenous) tribe will typically do! :eek:

Yes, I can see that if I've a mind to investigate, perhaps on some more or less scientific, and quasi-spiritual footing, then toking on the Peace Pipe, and even dropping a hit of LSD or two, or eating some mushrooms, could be viewed as the pursuit of a higher purpose than just getting baked for the halibut. But I think we're treading on thin ice, here, since I've had a fairly clear awareness of the goings-on of my most recent past life, with respect to drug use & abuse, for ~15 years now.

It could be argued, ah, but what if you didn't know you'd done these things last time around? What then? And I'd have to say, that although this is entirely possible, I prefer to look at it like this: Why did I gain such insight, and have such clear indications, with respect to my past life or lives - if not to avoid certain mistakes, and to be able to see various patterns ... such as those which are not desirable to repeat, those which are in line with Soul intent, and especially those which can give me an especial insight into why I, as an individual, am here to begin with?

I think it's difficult to ask certain what-if's, but with respect to drug use, I like to believe that this is one of those almost-impossible cases, because - if you follow what I'm saying here - I think my immediate return to incarnation has occurred pretty specifically within the parameters of a need (a Soul need) to NOT make all the same mistakes, twice ... and thus, while drugs do hold a certain allure, and do give us (at least sometimes) a glimpse of `something beyond' ... they are ultimately a weakness (sic), a crutch, to be overcome - and thus there's no justifying continued drug use, or drug use within a supposedly more spiritual or `legitimate' basis/context.

Bottom line is - it's entirely possible, and in fact, I believe it is so: that part of the very purpose of this lifetime, for me, is to overcome this dependency/temptation/habit. There may be a great deal more that I can accomplish (there is!), yet even if I were to live the rest of my life weed free, seeking to be productive and to live a life of service, to the best of my ability ... then I'd say that would constitute a life of relative success, from the Soul point of view.

Dondi said:
Interesting. This seems to lend to the idea that karma is not limited to the individual, but is also imposed of whole communities, perhaps even nations. Indeed, all through the Old Testament, Israel suffered collectively when they became disobedient.

That does concern me, for if nations are judged collectively, or if we all share in the karma of the nation in which we abide, then we have a huge responsibility to do what we can to obey the laws and bring positive light in our area of the world for the good of the whole.

And people wonder why Christians cannot leave politics alone, as if we should sit on our laurels and let the country go to hell in a hand basket. We are called to be the Salt of the Earth. Woe to us when that Salt loses it's flavor.
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Good observations.

All I recall offhand, and something which I keep in the forefront of my awareness, is that the Tibetan Master indicates something of America's past, and of Great Britain's past. America, He says, is the reincarnation of Ancient Egypt, while the UK is the reincarnation of the Roman Empire.

Dondi said:
I would be interested in what you consider SERVICE, in more detail, aloft from ideas of tithing, worship, and charitable acts. How are we to involve ourselves in the lives of other people?
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This has got to be the single most important question that we can ask ourselves, with regard to religion or spirituality, both exoteric & esoteric ... or even just what our purpose is in being here to begin with! I wish I had better answers, but here's what occurs to me at the moment:

SERVICE, like spirituality (which term many people prefer instead of the word `religion'), refers to a Way of Life. Service means that we accept, at least tentatively, that all life on the planet is ONE, and that no individual human life is worth more than any other. But more importantly, if that is true, then the following is also true - that every single human life matters EQUALLY.

We can see this in the statement of the Christ, that "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." (Matthew 25:40). And I have never understood why, after reading this statement, the Christian has trouble understanding the affirmation of the Mystics that indeed, All are One in Christ ... while as St. Paul tells us, there is "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory."

Our every interaction with another person, then, either does something - however subtle and seemingly unnoticeable - to either awaken and call forth that Christ within, or to leave it be, purely latent. But the Christ within, to speak from a Christian context, does not exist purely that it may remain a potential; surely it is there that it may become Awakened, even that we too, may one day be Annointed (`Buddh,' incidentally, means awakened, whereas `Christos' means annointed).

Thus, to live in Service, from an exoteric point of view, just means that we are doing our level best to draw out (`educare' - to draw out) the greatest potential of our fellow human being. Esoterically, this is why the Christ is known as `The World Teacher.' He is spoken of as the ultimate spiritual authority upon our planet for Drawing Out this Christ potential, which dwells within every human heart - yet in a latent, rather than an active, state.

But one does not need to be an already-accomplished, Annointed Christos in order to Love and Serve, even after the fashion which Christ Jesus taught. And so, believe it or not, every esotericist that I know would agree with both the letter, and the spirit, of the statement that - Our job, as esotericists, is to Serve as we believe the Christ would have us do ... or, in other words, to apply the widely known WWJD which I have heard about, especially here in the Bible Belt of the United States.

This Service can take many, many forms, both exoteric and esoteric, and the two are complementary, for one really cannot exist without the other. Esoterically, Meditation is a very important form of Service. There are of couse many, many dozens of different ways to meditate, all more or less successful on some way and on some level. Yet esotericists after the fashion of Alice Bailey, and Lucille Cedercrans, for example, as well as a good many Theosophists, will choose both a group and an individual meditation which observes certain core prinicples and concepts. To read more about this type of Esoteric, and especially Group Meditation, I recommend starting here: Lucis - Meditation

The Lucis Trust site has another good link, on Service Activities, including the Triangles Work (meditative, magnetic, group Service), World Goodwill (which makes use of Goodwill Energy), use of the Great Invocation, and other forms of worldwide Networking in Service of the Plan.

For several reasons, one of the most important ways in which ANY person can be of esoteric Service, especially in connection with a meditative forumlation - or Prayer/Invocation - is to use the `Great Invocation.' This is a Prayer, described as Christ's own Invocation, which can be sounded aloud or silently, any time of the day, in nearly any cirumstance. It is very much like the `Lord's Prayer' or Our Father, though it is given out with the understanding that it is Christ's Prayer for us, for the Aquarian Era. So, just as we have been able to pray for the last 2000 years with the realization that this is how Christ taught us to pray, during the Era of Pisces, the Great Invocation is an update, from the Christ Himself, for Aquarius (another ~2000 years). Many millions of people worldwide now use the Great Invocation, even daily.

Service, if we want to further consider it, has been epitomized, and embodied for us, during the 20th Century, by several great Disicples, who were very aware of the need to help steer Humanity along a higher road. One of these was Mother Teresa, who demonstrated beautifully that we do not need to let SERVICE become hindered by the distinctions and differences between the world's religions. Thus, she bridged the world's religions, exoterically, in her service, while also embodying the greatest of the esoteric Truths which the Christ will surely teach, Himself, upon return.

Another great disciple was Mahatma Gandhi, the great Soul, who taught that peaceful demonstration can accomplish what armed conflict and violent uprising cannot. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., further embodied this same spirit of Service, drawing upon Gandhi's example, while also serving as an Avatar for the African-American people during the Civil Rights Movement in this country. Here are two, beautiful examples of exoteric Service, yet notice that for all their teaching, preaching and demonstration, their service would have amounted to nothing if not for the many thousands, even millions, who put their examples into practice, alongside them.

Meanwhile, as these miraculous events have been occurring upon our planet on the world stage (exoterically), there has been a growing group of Knowers, the World Servers of every possible religion and background, working silently but powerfully (esoterically) to bridge between the outer consciousness of Humanity ... and the Point of Light within the Mind of God, as well as the Point of Love within the Heart of God. In short, a growing body of world disciples are doing all that is possible to bring the Divine Plan, as best they can intuit and receive it, into the eager, aspirational awareness of the minds and hearts of men.

SERVICE, then, as I understand it, takes place upon every plane of human awareness, in many, many forms both exoteric and esoteric, with the Ideal being that of a Server whose one hand is reaching `above,' to the world of divine empowerment & spiritual reality ... and the other hand outstretched `below' to the world of human, animal and planetary need.

In time, this Server becomes the Savior, first as he learns to say, as the Soul in Aquarius: "Water of life am I, poured forth for thirsty men," then later as the Soul in Pisces: "I leave the Father's home and turning back, I save." The wheel, for the disciple, is reversed, and Pisces - following Aquarius - ends his journey. But not even with Christhood does Service come to an end; if anything, this is where our Greater Service to the Godhead may be said to begin!

We should remember that when asked by the eager young man at one of Christ's Sermons, "Rabbi, how may I serve you?" ... Christ responded, "The Son of man comes - not to be served, but to SERVE." Thus, there is a Joy, and a Gladness, and a spirit of Abundant Generosity in true Service ... for the Server is ever asking the question - as a Soul, "How may I serve the SOUL?" :)

Namaskar,

~andrew
 
Thankss Andrew, for this wonderful post on SERVICE.

I have another question to follow, but I want to precede it with a leading question:

How does the concept of karma fit into the concept of Christian grace and love? I understand the biblical scriptures of sowing and reaping and how that might fit. But if someone has accumilated so much bad karma that he is born into a poor situation, what is our response to that? Are we in Christian love to help out and feed the the poor or are we supposed to leave them be to work out their own karma? Afterall, they brought it upon themselves, didn't they? So they deserve to suffer, right?
 
Dondi said:
Thankss Andrew, for this wonderful post on SERVICE.

I have another question to follow, but I want to precede it with a leading question:

How does the concept of karma fit into the concept of Christian grace and love? I understand the biblical scriptures of sowing and reaping and how that might fit. But if someone has accumilated so much bad karma that he is born into a poor situation, what is our response to that? Are we in Christian love to help out and feed the the poor or are we supposed to leave them be to work out their own karma? Afterall, they brought it upon themselves, didn't they? So they deserve to suffer, right?
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Awaiting andrews answer and butting in...In your analogy, I think not....being born into poverty and learning a lesson of someone caring and compassionate would be part of the lesson...if one stays there and is ignored and abused where is the growth?

I think love and forgiveness are the things we are here to learn, for ourselves, for others, for our planet...it is a heck of a lot easier when we have examples...
 
Dondi said:
How does the concept of karma fit into the concept of Christian grace and love? I understand the biblical scriptures of sowing and reaping and how that might fit. But if someone has accumilated so much bad karma that he is born into a poor situation, what is our response to that? Are we in Christian love to help out and feed the the poor or are we supposed to leave them be to work out their own karma? Afterall, they brought it upon themselves, didn't they? So they deserve to suffer, right?
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Dondi,

I must defer to wil, because I think his answer is right on the money! :)

The only thing I might add, is that I believe Humanity itself - as a whole - is making (and has made) certain choices, in terms of a worldwide, or planetary Karma ... according to Free Will. Thus, we are reaping what we ourselves have sown, and part of this includes the poor choices in terms of how (or whether) to support all of the life - even just the HUMAN life - upon our globe, sustainably.

{Note, esoterically, that we unwisely chose during Lemurian times, and thus Humanity dwindled upon our planet, the greatest portion of physical civiliation being destroyed by volcanism and by fire. Again, during Atlantean times, we had progressed much farther, yet we were not intellectually mature enough to offset an indulgence in the worst kind of sorcery imaginable ... and thus the planet was moved, by Mercy Divine, to swallow Humanity in the events recorded as the Great Deluge. And now, here we are: at the Crossroads again! :eek:}

Now, I do realize that some of this will seem unfair, specifically - how can it be just that there are so many born into poverty & hunger, unless it is, indeed, their specific, individual karma to thus learn a lesson. The imbalance, I would suggest, only seems so from the point of view of one lifetime alone, since I do not believe that the poor & hungry, by & large, are simply reaping what they, as individuals, have sown.

Whether the injustice is a seeming recognition of yours or mine (because of our desire & aspiration to Serve, and our Conscience - the voice & call of SOUL in our lives) ... or perhaps belongs to the person dying of hunger across the city, or in another country ... we must consider the larger - even largest perspective which we can collectively imagine: that of Humanity itself, as a whole.

And so the only point of view that will really make sense is that of the Soul, to the best that we are able to understand it. Suffering is real enough, but you and I will die. EVERY person that's born, is destined one day to die. The only being that is neither born, nor dies, is the Soul. And thus, although it will seem sort of trite, or perhaps inauthentic to our everyday, "real enough" experience(s), it is helpful - at least for me - to allow ourselves to be reminded: We are in this world, yet we are not of it.


This reminder gives us an opportunity to return to the underlying teaching regarding our Spiritual nature (as Children of God, learning to mature and become more fully Christ-like) ... and it also allows us to AFFIRM our spiritual intent, which is to learn, and grow, through SERVICE -
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ (Ephesians 4:13)​
There are many ways that we can bridge the gap, so to speak, and reach out to the people - wherever they may be - who are living (and dying) in poverty and hunger. The only really objectionable response, is that of not having any responsibility at all, whether this is prompted by our materialism, denial and a life of excess luxury ... or because we falsely believe something like - "oh well, that must just be their karma, and therefore it doesn't really affect me!"


The second of these excuses is no better than the first, because both fail equally in recognizing the underlying UNITY - in fact the ONENESS - which binds all of the planet, and all of the Sons of Men, together. If I might be allowed, I would like to quote the Unification Mantram, which many world servers and aspirants sound daily:
The sons of men are one, and I am one with them,
I seek to love, not hate,
I seek to serve, and not exact due service,
I seek to heal, not hurt.​
Let pain bring due reward of light and love.
Let the soul control the outer form, and life and all events
And bring to light the love which underlies the happenings of the time.​
Let vision come and insight.
Let the future stand revealed.
Let inner union demonstrate and outer cleavages be gone.
Let love prevail.
Let all men love.​
OM OM OM
​
This mantram, we are told, dates back to Atlantean times ... used before the days of the great conflict, which drove away our Teachers, and made of Humanity a prodigal. The mantram has obviously been updated, by giving it a modern form, yet of the many dozens of mantrams that esotericists have learned, this one is second only to the Great Invocation in terms of potency and value.

I hope its relevance to this thread, and to the teaching of Reincarnation (even hypothetically considered), might be sensed and considered ... even free of any other context, or association. :)

Namaskar,

~Andrew
 
~~(^.^)~~

“He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape.”

— Madame Blavatsky
 
Well said, Andrew. And wil, I likewise concur. (I hope you both realise I was being flippantly sarcastic in that attitude of "oh well, that must just be their karma, and therefore it doesn't really affect me!")


I truly believe, whether you believe in karma or not, that it is our duty to give a cup of water to those who thirst. If they are indeed reaping the effects of bad karma, the act of love we show toward them will no doubt help them, not only in their immediate physical needs, but spiritually because they will know that someone actually cares about them. That there is hope for them as we share God's love toward them. And when one has hope, it can create a spark whereby they can pull out of the condition they are in. Love does that to a person.
 
Dondi said:
Well said, Andrew. And wil, I likewise concur. (I hope you both realise I was being flippantly sarcastic in that attitude of "oh well, that must just be their karma, and therefore it doesn't really affect me!")

I truly believe, whether you believe in karma or not, that it is our duty to give a cup of water to those who thirst. If they are indeed reaping the effects of bad karma, the act of love we show toward them will no doubt help them, not only in their immediate physical needs, but spiritually because they will know that someone actually cares about them. That there is hope for them as we share God's love toward them. And when one has hope, it can create a spark whereby they can pull out of the condition they are in. Love does that to a person.
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Dondi, I think you've really gotten to the Heart of the matter! :)



Taking a human incarnation is supposed to be something of an extraordinary privilege ... something that even the gods consider to be of greatest fortune. This is a teaching from Buddhism, wherein it is believed that there are six realms of possible rebirth, including:
rebirth as a deva, an asura, a human being, an animal, a hungry ghost, or a being in Naraka (hell) according to the individual's karma. (source: Wikipedia)​
What esotericists in both Eastern and Western traditions understand is that, in fact, there is only a progression as we move, from lifetime to lifetime, so that human beings do NOT, in fact, ever regress and return as a worm, for example ... or some kind of animal lifeform.

The reason that `gods' (Devas) are said to return to rebirth, and the reason that this is in fact GOOD for them, is that - once this exoteric religious teaching is interpreted in terms of the Ageless Wisdom - Devas are shown to be identical with the Soul. This is understood to be the true Individual, even though exoteric Buddhism denies the teaching of a permanent aspect of self (an-atman). {To go one step further, it is the Soul, a deva, which experiences the PURE LAND consciousness between human incarnations ... known also as Devachan, in Hindu teachings.}

Despite the confusion, I have found that the Ageless Wisdom explains the nature of the Soul quite well, even allowing for some variation across various Schools (Theosophical, Anthroposophical, Rosicrucian, Masonic, the `Arcane School' of Alice Bailey, the `Wisdom' of Lucille Cedercrans, etc.). No doubt Nick and Bruce Michael will agree with me on this point.

At any rate, the reason I've mentioned this is because of something that was said to me many years ago, which I think I've already brought up on this thread. It's something that makes good, practical sense to me, the more I've considered it. And that is, that there are many, many thousands of Souls willing to take on even the humblest of conditions within a physical body, here on planet Earth, at this time.

The reason for this, is that Earth, frankly speaking, is kind of a halfway house, being the most spiritually unevolved of all the planets in our solar system. The vast majority of Souls evolving in our system are doing so within higher worlds, or subtler - more spiritual - dimensions (which is part of the reason we can't yet detect `ET,' despite the presence of dozens of species already visiting us).

But to look more closely at those Souls which are specifically born into conditions of hunger, poverty, bloodshed, crime and great disease or suffering ... it was said to me that for them, because of their (very early) stage of spiritual evolution, even such lifetimes as appear horrible to us, afford the Soul considerable opportunity for advancement.

This doesn't change a word of what you've said :) ... nor does it give us an excuse for apathy or inaction (Nick's post makes that clear, as per the Theosophical teachings of the Masters) ... yet for those who grieve just to see what is taking place around us, the widescale pain & suffering, I hope things might begin to make sense.

{In the teachings of Master DK through Alice Bailey, each Planetary School - such as the one headed by Christ & the Masters upon our planet - has a specific terminology, meant to convey something to the student. Earth's School, it might be noted, is the `School of Magnetic Response,' and as pupils we are sometimes called `the graduates of painful endeavor.' The Holy Bible also speaks of this, saying: "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." -- Revelation 7:13-14)

There is a small correspondence, which I hope will not seem impertinent, yet might show the same kind of thing on a higher turn of the spiral.


From the Esoteric Diary of Geoffrey Hodson, `Light of the Sanctuary,' there is a short account of his meeting with the Master Jesus during a lifetime when Geoffrey was a young boy, drawn into the presence of the Christ, and eager to serve Him in His Mission. Here is the excerpt to illustrate what I'm talking about:
In a Palestinian life of that era, I was privileged to meet the Lord Jesus, however briefly, although in very tragic circumstances. My servant-guide, who was an Egyptian Initiate, had brought me to the small township where Jesus and a group of His disciples were shortly expected. I was about nine years old and responsive to the occult teachings the guide had given me (actually he came to our house for that purpose), and we were standing with a considerable number of people gathered at the side of the street to see Him. I was in the front row and my guide just behind me, whilst in front of me were Roman soldiers or other armed men acting as policemen with weapons like javelins. The Master Jesus came through the arched stone gate of the town on foot with a number of His associates following Him.

When He came opposite where I was standing, the crowd behind pressed forward, so that I was pushed on to the guard in front of me. This annoyed him and he turned around in a bad temper to punish, and ready to kill me as an example to keep the people in obedience. Seeing this, my guide slipped forward and received the point of the javelin ni his own breast and fell dead at my feet. I became enraged and was going to assault the soldier when Jesus Himself halted and turned and drew near to the scene. He said, "Do not abuse this man who was but doing his duty. Rather express gratitude for him who has done so much for you and now has given you his life, thereby saving yours." As He spoke our eyes were linked together, as it were, and I felt a great longing to be admitted to His presence and group, saying, "Master, may I belong to You?", or some such words. His beautiful large brown eyes looked into mine, doubtless read my destiny, and declined, saying in effect, "Not yet, My son. For you have family obligations to meet and immediate duties to perform. Return then, and meet your responsibilities. Later, We shall see." The Master Jesus's skin was slightly browned, rather like a deep tan. He was very erect in carriage as He walked on down the street followed by a number of differently dressed people.

I arranged the burial of my guide and, remorsefully and sadly in one part of myself, and mystically elevated in another, I returned home as instructed and carried out my duties. At home, I had the same double consciousness of grief on the one hand and exaltation on the other since a mystical influence and, as it were, assurance had passed from the Master into my mind and heart, greatly elevating me. I longed to go to Him as I heard of His travelings about our land, but could not do so. Later on in that life I "came" to Jesus and worked for His cause for the rest of my life, having handed over all family duties to a younger brother. In doing His work, I travelled and taught. Ultimately, not being present in person, I heard of all that happened to Him, including His very brutal and untimely death.

In this twentieth century life, looking back, I still see Him as already described, and particularly His wonderful eyes looking deeply into mine and into my very Self. His words remain in my memory something like this: "It is promised you that you shall never be forsaken by me or severed from all that I represent and am, including the light which you saw shing about Me."

​
Geoffrey's own, direct Master (Teacher) in his most recent lifetime (1886-1983) was Master Polidorus Isurenus, known to history as Philo Judaeus, the Alexandrian sage.

The correspondence, in this account of Geoffrey's Palestinian past life, is between his necessity to fulfil more basic, domestic obligations, before being allowed to come into greater service of his Master ... both in that, particular lifetime, as well as in his lifetime as Geoffrey. The Soul, likewise, must progress through many, many lifetimes of more basic development, before being called to the Spiritual path - and finally treading the way of Initiation. Consider this page, with detail on 777 symbolic incarnations.
 
I am new to your forum and do not know the dynmics of it compared to some other discussions groups I am on....... hope you do not consider this post to be intrusive, since the discussion has been going on for quite a while with only a few participants.

I have read the entire post, whew, very long and am painfully aware that I am not as well read as any of you.

However, I want to put my two cents in and ask a couple of questions.

First, I was raised a southern Baptist and was "saved" at 11 and baptised. I re-dedicated at 23 yo and really BELIEVED everything I had been taught about Jesus, the Bible and Christianity. (So that you know my background).

When my son was 2.5-3 yo he casually told me "I used to know you before I was in your tummy". I said "Oh, really?" Wondering what funny, childish story he had made up and made ready, like mothers do, to listen with feigned interest to his childish tale. He said, "I wasn't very nice to you, especially when you were Maureen. We have to be better this time." I was confused and asked him "What are you talking about? My name is Michelle." He ignored me and kept going......What he said next caught my attention and I spent the next 15 minutes not having to pretend to be interested in what he was saying. I was scared to death, actually and thought demons or evil spirits were influencing my son........ He described his life as my grandfather, his illness over the last 2 years of my grandfather's life, where he lived, names of nursing homes, the hospital where he was treated, then his death and then matter-of factly declared "then I was in your tummy and now I'm here." Then something again about let's get it right this time.........

I called my Grandmother and Dad immediately..... and asked about my grandfather's death, I had not been there, I held quite a grudge against him. They thought I was just finally curious and had forgiven my grandfather. They confirmed the description of the cancers movement as it metasisized, facility names, etc and the actual time and date of his death. (Which coreesponds to my son's conception.) When I mentioned the name Maureen, my Grandmother exclaimed "How do you know her name?!" and hung up on me...... my Dad says that was the name of my grandfather's first wife, before WWII........

I know there is not any real evidence here. I just wanted to share.

A question.
Somewhere in the bible it says God desires that all men would be saved. Anyone know that verse?? I have always felt after reading that verse, that He would give a chance for all to be saved, then. And, in our world, not everyone knows about Jesus...... so it seems we might need multiple lifetimes in order to geographically live in a place where we have access to Christian teaching. Although, now, it is easier than ever with the internet. (A point only to be pondered if you beleive Jesus is the only way to heaven.)

~Michelle
 
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." - I Timothy 2:4

Be advised, that just because God would have all men be saved doesn't mean that He doesn't give man that choice. Man has the freewill to accept or reject.

Another similiar verse says:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." - II Peter 3:9

That repentance is relegated to us.

But that's a fascinating account you have, fourgrtkidos. And it deserves great consideration. I've been rather leery about past-life memories. I'm not sure what to make of them. On one hand, it could lend evidence to reincarnation.

But if you believe in a spirit world, and that there are both good spirits and evil spirits, it would not take much for an evil spirit to deceptively plant the false memories, even if it is shown to be true. We reasonable assume that these spirits have been around and probably territorial and could quite possibly have enough information of your grandfather to impress upon you son the idea that he remembers you in a former life. That's just another explanation.

But I dunno. The jury is still out for me. Having had a traditional Christian upbringing like yours, I'm nevertheless open to explore possibilities. But it's hard especially when you have been so orientated to believe a certain way.

BTW, Welcome to the CR forums, fourgrtkidos! Thanks for your input and for asking questions.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
How do you know you're not?

I think it would be good if you would just admit and get on with the miracles.

Chris
Click to expand...

No, thou shalt not tempt me my child. All will come in due time... due time..

It's so clear now, my patiences, loving nature, equality of all obviously comes from back in the day when I was the J man... Why didn't I see this before.
 
~~(^.^)~~

fourgrtkidos,

I thought you might be interested in the Child Past Lives Forum, which has documented many cases just like yours, and specializes in cases like yours.

Past Life Forum - Powered by vBulletin

I use the username Bunataro there, as I was Japanese in a recent past life.

Also, according to my non-Christian belief system, yes we are saved, but we save ourselves through our own effort. No one does it for us.
 
fourgrtkidos said:
I was scared to death, actually and thought demons or evil spirits were influencing my son........

~Michelle
Click to expand...

Greetings Michelle,
Sounds like a "house divided" situation. Why would evil spirits be interested in "making good" a relationship?

As your child grows he may forget all about it.

If evil spirits were running around planting false memories in all of us, what hope would any of us have?

We find that when false memories are implanted it is by hypnosis or suggestion- and that is by human beings.


God Bless,
Br.Bruce
 
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