Suicide in the name of Religion

Netti-Netti said:
Did you have any questions about "why they did it" when you found out that the Israeli operation in Gaza killed over 1300 and wounded over 5000, with up to 30% being infants and children. Obviously this operation was to a large extent indiscriminate terroristic violence.

Please tell us a little more about what it means to be an "apologist."
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You may wish to consult with your heroes from Hamas, Iran, Syria, etc., etc.

You want to be the victim. We all understand that. You feel an entitlement toward vitriolic Jew hatred and you want someone to listen. Well, Wallowing in self pity will not improve your situation.

Do you understand that the infidels simply require you holy book followers to learn how to get along? Speaking for myself only, I begin to start to care about your beliefs only when they begin to impact me. Use your holy books to improve your lives (we both know you won’t). You need to be a victim.

Victimhood makes your choices for you and relieves you of the burdensome task of taking responsibility for your actions.
 
Resigned said:
I’m not under any obligation to justify your religious perspectives. More to the point, I think religious people are much more adept at creating negative opinions than I am at justifying them.
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Example. Even one?

I opened this thread fully anticipating the pith and vinegar to be spewed because I questioned the concept of faith and one of the results of that faith. Absolutist religious faith has many consequences and I try to understand them.
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What information did you provide on faith? Any?

It’s remarkable how reactive some religious people can be as they assume that any questioning of their beliefs is tantamount to an attack on their beliefs.
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Who questioned a belief and on what basis?


Direct, sometimes blunt observations and critique of a belief system is just not something most people in the west feel a need to kill or car bomb over, because most of us are reasonably secure in who we are and what our beliefs are, and we are secure in the knowledge that we are protected by law against violent reprisals for our beliefs.
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What does this add?

We will often even welcome honest criticism. It can result in the strengthening of our convictions, or enhance them with different perspectives.
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Whose perspective are you referring to here?

But when you begin declaring that those who believe differently than you are inferior (or worse, worthy only of revulsion), for no other reason than ideological arrogance, or worse, when the ideology promotes the subjugation of people for these differences, you have crossed the line from being a pretentious ideologue to a religious supremacist.
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Example?

The only external examples of the religion which we can use to assess the ideology are the adherents of the religion.
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Identified on the basis of what criteria?

There must be some reason why we don’t see heavily armed groups of Baptists routinely car bombing Methodists.
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Did you have a theory?

Conversely, There must be some reason why we do see sunnis/shiites car bombing both themselves and each other.
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Do you have a theory?

Sorry, you totally lost me with this latest installment. It's sheer babble.

I'm not sure why I am trying to have dialogue with you. You line up words one after the other but are apparently unable to put together a coherent argument of any kind.
 
Netti-Netti said:
Example. Even one?
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Well, one can read your posts.


What information did you provide on faith? Any?
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I let the faithful demonstrate the consequences of faith.


Who questioned a belief and on what basis?
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Have you attempted to understand what is being conveyed in this thread?



What does this add?
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That’s a value judgement.



Whose perspective are you referring to here?
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A select few.



Example?
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Too many to list.



Identified on the basis of what criteria?
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Relevant examples.

Did you have a theory?
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Yes.



Do you have a theory?
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A strong one

Sorry, you totally lost me with this latest installment. It's sheer babble.
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If you could cobble together something more profound than self serving apologetics, you might come to an understanding. In other less self-aggrandized, tortuous words, brave Islamist fighters are addressing the issues you’re struggling with. They're car bombing their fellow muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.



I'm not sure why I am trying to have dialogue with you.
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I never presumed you were.



You line up words one after the other but are apparently unable to put together a coherent argument of any kind.
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Yet here you are. Bidding for my attention.
 
From the first page:
Resigned said:
I was curious to know what dynamic others may think cause these acts to be so closely tied to one particular politico-religious ideology.
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Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation in the absence of any relevant facts about faith or politico-religious ideology and whether it had behavioral consequences?

One other quick question: Please explain to us what you are trying to accomplish in a discussion forum without actually having anything to say. You provide no information relevant to the points you seem to be trying to make.
 
Netti-Netti said:
From the first page:

Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation in the absence of any relevant facts about faith or politico-religious ideology and whether it had behavioral consequences?

One other quick question: Please explain to us what you are trying to accomplish in a discussion forum without actually having anything to say. You provide no information relevant to the points you seem to be trying to make.
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You seem to have this impression that others share you limitations.
 
Resigned said:
Irrelevant offhand remark
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I notice you usually refuse to answer my questions. But let's try it again. Maybe if I rephrase the question:
Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?
​
 
Netti-Netti said:
I notice you usually refuse to answer my questions. But let's try it again. Maybe if I rephrase the question:
Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?
​
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I shall magnanimously ascribe your inability to accept the consequences that are inherent in the furtherance of your politico-religious ideology to deceit and cultural bias rather than deliberate ignorance.

Apparently, you’re having issues with making rational decisions and so resort to dishonest intrusions into rational discourse.
 
I'm not sure why you are being so evasive here. Simple question: Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?

If you need a minute to introspect, please do.
 
Netti-Netti said:
I'm not sure why you are being so evasive here. Simple question: Why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?

If you need a minute to introspect, please do.
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I’m entirely sure why your dogma tends to create a wall of deceit and denial that you cannot find your way past.

Such entrapment and enslavement is wrong, of course, but you will remain attached to it like an anchor to a chain.
 
Resigned said:
I’m entirely sure why your dogma tends to create a wall of deceit and denial that you cannot find your way past.

Such entrapment and enslavement is wrong, of course, but you will remain attached to it like an anchor to a chain.
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Sounds good. But why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?
 
Netti-Netti said:
Sounds good. But why would you have people engage in rampant speculation about the extent to which politico-religious ideology factored into a suicide bombing in the absence of any relevant facts on that issue?
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It’s unfortunate that there is no room in the psyche of those slaves to dogma for even the consideration that literalistic proscriptions might perhaps be wrong or immoral in any way, thus those addled by such limitations careen from self deceit to denial.
 
Resigned said:
It’s unfortunate that there is no room in the psyche of those slaves to dogma for even the consideration that literalistic proscriptions might perhaps be wrong or immoral in any way, thus those addled by such limitations careen from self deceit to denial.
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You're a good writer. If only you had something to say.
 
Netti-Netti said:
That might explain why you have apparently dedicated yourself to litering the Internet with the same material. Aren't you Ruggedtouch? Or are you merely copying their 2-year old material over here to this forum from the Islamcity forum:
IslamiCity Forum: Iraqi Women’s Rights Leader Murdered

The same line about the black helicopters appears verbatim at the end of your comments here:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/touch-humanity-for-great-israel-10474-9.html#post180408

It seems you're recycling old material.

At least you're good for a chuckle. :p
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It may be true that he may be posting this on multiple message boards, but I only visit this one. For me, it's the first time I've seen this. Obviously he wants to get the best of all worlds. Having said that, it shouldn't be a reason to disdain or disregard what he says.

Resigned said:
It’s unfortunate that there is no room in the psyche of those slaves to dogma for even the consideration that literalistic proscriptions might perhaps be wrong or immoral in any way, thus those addled by such limitations careen from self deceit to denial.
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Resigned, you're a newbie here. Do you even know enough about Netti-Netti to be able to say this? I think you're making assumptions about this person that may not be true, treating him/her like a straw man for bayonet-infantry practice. Considering that he discusses a whole range of topics, I would hardly call him a slave of dogma, as it seems he seeks to get the best of all worlds.

I don't even know if Netti-Netti is even Muslim. I've seen him talk about all kinds of topics that would have nothing to do with Islam. I think he's just defending Islam to be fair and respectful.

You and I are not keepers of the tradition of Islam so regardless of what we'd like to say about Islam, we are not the ones to decide what Islam is or isn't. That is for Muslims for say. Sure there are some crackpots and nuts, but it doesn't mean that they're all like that. Not all Muslims you meet here will have a view/theory/explanation that is compatible with our predominantly Western and Anglo-centric mindsets, but you have to be patient.

Not so long ago we had cyberpi, but he left I think due to dissatisfaction with the experience here. Now we have c0de, and it's nice to be able to find common ground with him.
 
Saltmeister said:
It may be true that he may be posting this on multiple message boards, but I only visit this one. For me, it's the first time I've seen this. Obviously he wants to get the best of all worlds. Having said that, it shouldn't be a reason to disdain or disregard what he says.
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Just saying I've been having trouble making out what he is talking about because it's mostly rhetorical and lacking substance. He refuses to elaborate when I ask for detail or facts. Given this kind of ambiguity, I'm inclined to ask why someone shows up on this forum. I asked him and he wouldn't answer that question either. I think he's wasting my time.
 
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