Suicide in the name of Religion

Just saying I've been having trouble making out what he is talking about because it's mostly rhetorical and lacking substance. He refuses to elaborate when I ask for detail or facts. Given this kind of ambiguity, I'm inclined to ask why someone shows up on this forum. I asked him and he wouldn't answer that question either. I think he's wasting my time.

I think that he's critical of religion because he lives or has lived in the Bible Belt. It may be the only experience he has of religion and theism in particular. From what I can see in his posts, he seems to have been deeply influenced by experiences with fundamentalist Christianity.

People come to this message board from all walks of life and I guess we just have accept them for what they know or don't know. Whatever he knows or doesn't know, it's a matter of working with him so that we can gain an understanding of each other.

Resigned wants to express his views and be heard, in which case we should just give him what he wants. If he says that some of us adherents of religion are slaves of dogma, he was made his point, but with regards to the members to which he is talking here, I think he is bayoneting straw men.
 
Just saying I've been having trouble making out what he is talking about because it's mostly rhetorical and lacking substance. He refuses to elaborate when I ask for detail or facts. Given this kind of ambiguity, I'm inclined to ask why someone shows up on this forum. I asked him and he wouldn't answer that question either. I think he's wasting my time.
On the contrary, what you object to is anyone questioning your beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs. If you were willing to accept responsibility for what your ideology has wrought, that might be a first step toward your understanding the context of this thread. But as it is, you’re left to respond to only way you know how: with reactive vitriol.
 
You're a good writer. If only you had something to say.


LOL!!! And our survey said? "jog on!"

Netti a touch of class, as per usual.....


Code... Nice one mah brother.

Farhan: That wasn't related to my post right? Cause lol that would make no sense RATM: Killing in the name of, is showing how all these 'leaders' and righteous justifications for violence are bull ****. It's all like "this aggression will not stand man!"

Gloryto: What? He lost an ear? That guy was f'd up anyway.... Nothind to do with being a muslim..... Or was it...... *dun dun dun* lol.
 
Islamic schools, many directly funded by Americas good friends the Saudis, in the Taliban catchment are poor in actual education and heavy on the kind of by rote repetitiveness that induces a kind of psychosis.

Hi NewDawn,

Being one from amongst the Muslims, and having gone to Mosque myself to learn the Quran...as a child, I think I may have a more correct perspective to the 'nodding of the head' of the children who are engaged in reading the Quran; however this is only a personal opinion of mines...

The Quran is so powerfull [in the sense that it peirces into the soul, body and mind, establishing purity and making them 'fit' in a spiritual way], that the satan and the base-self indeed tries to distract the reader with distracting thoughts; also the recitation of the Quran has a natural 'rythmic' sound to it; these factors put together creates a natural instinct in people to want to sway their heads and body to and fro in order to just stay busy with the recitation and keep other thoughts away, and I suppose the 'rythm' of the recitation takes hold a little too...

However I think in Islam there may be no specific guidance to sway one's body like that when reading the Quran, and to the contrary there may even be a hadith that points such behaviour out as a negative sign of the last day, for I think I have a faint memmory of hearing a hadith like [saying to the extent], that in the latter days Muslims will be reading the Quran like the Jews... [i.e, swaying one's head to and fro when reading from the Holy Book]; the gist of the hadith seemed to indicate negativity...

The students/pupils however are not taught to sway their bodies in that way, thus this behaviour is soley instinctive and done of the pupils/reciters own accord; grown ups sometimes tend to do it too.

But all in all, inshAllah the Quran recitation [even if it includes the 'negative'? swaying] has a verry powerfull positive and enlightening effect, the Quranic words form peace, tranquility and purity in the soul body and mind and it enhances thinking and intellectual capacity, and regarding memorisation of the Quran for children; in addition to the aforementioned qualities, it also instills faith, strengthens their fitrah [their innate good nature], thus setting them up well to face the potentially big bad ugly [full of dangers and trials for ones faith] world :)
 
On the contrary, what you object to is anyone questioning your beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs. If you were willing to accept responsibility for what your ideology has wrought, that might be a first step toward your understanding the context of this thread. But as it is, you’re left to respond to only way you know how: with reactive vitriol.
Actually, I've been trying to be helpful.

Ordinarily, in social/cultural propaganda, it's essential to establish what's known as "activating imagery." It's the schema by which the audience will henceforth have their perceptions shaped. Once the image has been established, it has to be reinforced. The propagandist's task is to flesh out the imagery with actual examples that validate the image.

If the imagery is concerned with explaining/predicting behavior, then it's crucial to present examples that have some explanatory/predictive value. Unfortunately, all you're doing is summarizing the same activating image over and over again without adding any new information, let alone the kind of information you'd need to validate the imagery.

You might have a brilliant activating image, but it doesn't matter if you can't demonstrate that it's a valid image.

A propagandist who doesn't shore up the activating imagery comes across as not caring enough about the issues to have done their homework. They also give the impression that they don't respect their audience enough to offer something besides stereotyped imagery and offhand remarks. After a while, it's simply not positively reinforcing enough for people to stick around and listen to more of it. Sooner or later, they just change the channel.

Hope that helps.
 
On the contrary, what you object to is anyone questioning your beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs. If you were willing to accept responsibility for what your ideology has wrought, that might be a first step toward your understanding the context of this thread. But as it is, you’re left to respond to only way you know how: with reactive vitriol.


You have not established a link between religious fervor
and suicide bombings. Nor have you proven that religion
is the real cause behind these conflicts. These are your
assertions. And history, and basic inquiry stand against
them.
 
You have not established a link between religious fervor
and suicide bombings. Nor have you proven that religion
is the real cause behind these conflicts. These are your
assertions. And history, and basic inquiry stand against
them.

The trouble is also the scarcity of virgins creating the religious fervor and for that we can only blame ourselves. Now if we are looking for virgins we have to become martyrs. To make matters worse, this policy may be sexist and female martyrs lose out.

So the solution is preserving virginity on earth so we can have the excess when we need it. This may not be so easy in this day and age so we'll just end up with more martyrs.

Do female suicide bombers get 72 virgins, too? - By Michelle Tsai - Slate Magazine
 
Actually, I've been trying to be helpful.

Ordinarily, in social/cultural propaganda, it's essential to establish what's known as "activating imagery." It's the schema by which the audience will henceforth have their perceptions shaped. Once the image has been established, it has to be reinforced. The propagandist's task is to flesh out the imagery with actual examples that validate the image.

If the imagery is concerned with explaining/predicting behavior, then it's crucial to present examples that have some explanatory/predictive value. Unfortunately, all you're doing is summarizing the same activating image over and over again without adding any new information, let alone the kind of information you'd need to validate the imagery.

You might have a brilliant activating image, but it doesn't matter if you can't demonstrate that it's a valid image.

A propagandist who doesn't shore up the activating imagery comes across as not caring enough about the issues to have done their homework. They also give the impression that they don't respect their audience enough to offer something besides stereotyped imagery and offhand remarks. After a while, it's simply not positively reinforcing enough for people to stick around and listen to more of it. Sooner or later, they just change the channel.

Hope that helps.
One of the unfortunate consequences that accompany the apologetics for murderous jihad attacks is that attacks continue. They’re accorded an allowance because there are those who will defend them as not being connected to religious perspectives. As we see with regularity, apologists for mass murder will seek to disassociate the proscriptions of the ideology from the ideology.

We declare our responsibility for what happened in Madrid ... It is a response to your collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies ... There will be more if God wills it. You love life and we love death ... if you don't put an end to your injustices more and more blood will run.”

So said the voice speaking Moroccan-tinged Arabic, on a videotape retrieved from a waste basket near Madrid's main mosque and morgue (how very apt). This was in the wake of the horrific train bombings in Spain after a man with an Arab accent called in to TV channel TeleMadrid with instructions on where to look for the tape.

Ostensibly, this message was a ploy to influence Spain's presidential elections (a ploy that would prove to be partly successful). But there is a more sinister and profound message in this disembodied warning to the infidels from Islam's holy warriors: it is yet another explicit avowal (we still don't get it, do we?) of Islam's sanguine nature. It is the love of death in God's name, whether it is the ignominious murder of the infidel or the glorious death of the shahid (martyr). It is the spread of God's domain--dar al-Islam--through the violence of offensive jihad. And it is the perverse diminution of what we here in the West hold to be most dear: the sanctity of life.

We saw similar dynamics in Gaza when Hamas engaged in a bloody civil war with Fatah. Hamas eventually won that murderous slug-fest through attrition but the result was a huge pile dead bodies, many showing signs of torture. That little dalliance was also a decisive message of challenge and contempt aimed at Abu Mazen AKA Mahmoud “where’s my U.N. issued welfare check” Abbas, in response to his token concessions toward acknowledging Israel's right to exist. Israel's very existence is anathema to the devout ummah in light of the moslem claim that all of Israel is an Islamic waqf (an entitlement from God granted to Muslims in perpetuity).
Such matters are not open to revision or capitulation.

Apologists will reel in denial regarding any association of religious perspectives and a simultaneous occurrence of dead bodies. Even the intonation of allahu akbar and the curious, simultaneous occurrence of gunfire or explosions will elicit a hand wave of “not connected with religion”. But as we know, Islam's jihad is a matter of historical record. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from the ideology, and when I see these dreadful tragedies continue, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.

For as long as there are groups and individuals who excuse the slaughter, the slaughter will continue.
 
Everybody gets any good thing they want. Virgin is more like a bad english translation
 
this is besides the point...
do female suicide bomers get 72 virgins...???
ladies?? really??? could you think of anything worse???
lol
Do female suicide bombers get male virgins? If not, and the gods are chauvinists such that female virgins are the only dish on the menu, that would call into question the gods moral compass.
 
One of the unfortunate consequences that accompany the apologetics for murderous jihad attacks is that attacks continue. They’re accorded an allowance because there are those who will defend them as not being connected to religious perspectives. As we see with regularity, apologists for mass murder will seek to disassociate the proscriptions of the ideology from the ideology.

We declare our responsibility for what happened in Madrid ... It is a response to your collaboration with the criminals Bush and his allies ... There will be more if God wills it. You love life and we love death ... if you don't put an end to your injustices more and more blood will run.”

So said the voice speaking Moroccan-tinged Arabic, on a videotape retrieved from a waste basket near Madrid's main mosque and morgue (how very apt). This was in the wake of the horrific train bombings in Spain after a man with an Arab accent called in to TV channel TeleMadrid with instructions on where to look for the tape.

Ostensibly, this message was a ploy to influence Spain's presidential elections (a ploy that would prove to be partly successful). But there is a more sinister and profound message in this disembodied warning to the infidels from Islam's holy warriors: it is yet another explicit avowal (we still don't get it, do we?) of Islam's sanguine nature. It is the love of death in God's name, whether it is the ignominious murder of the infidel or the glorious death of the shahid (martyr). It is the spread of God's domain--dar al-Islam--through the violence of offensive jihad. And it is the perverse diminution of what we here in the West hold to be most dear: the sanctity of life.

We saw similar dynamics in Gaza when Hamas engaged in a bloody civil war with Fatah. Hamas eventually won that murderous slug-fest through attrition but the result was a huge pile dead bodies, many showing signs of torture. That little dalliance was also a decisive message of challenge and contempt aimed at Abu Mazen AKA Mahmoud “where’s my U.N. issued welfare check” Abbas, in response to his token concessions toward acknowledging Israel's right to exist. Israel's very existence is anathema to the devout ummah in light of the moslem claim that all of Israel is an Islamic waqf (an entitlement from God granted to Muslims in perpetuity).
Such matters are not open to revision or capitulation.

Apologists will reel in denial regarding any association of religious perspectives and a simultaneous occurrence of dead bodies. Even the intonation of allahu akbar and the curious, simultaneous occurrence of gunfire or explosions will elicit a hand wave of “not connected with religion”. But as we know, Islam's jihad is a matter of historical record. There simply isn't any other movement in the world today, religious or secular, whose adherents willfully and regularly murder unarmed civilians en masse. It comes from the ideology, and when I see these dreadful tragedies continue, I get frustrated that people still won't acknowledge where this poisonous hatred and glorification of death comes from.

For as long as there are groups and individuals who excuse the slaughter, the slaughter will continue.

Man you live in your own world. You are scared of light. You don't have the guts come out of your self-woven cocoon, drop your sermon giving attitude & answer some fundamental questions for once.

Keep ranting, sometimes its good for health.
 
Man you live in your own world. You are scared of light. You don't have the guts come out of your self-woven cocoon, drop your sermon giving attitude & answer some fundamental questions for once.

Keep ranting, sometimes its good for health.
It's not like most of us disagree on jihad attacks not being a problem.

It's just I don't recall having read you put forward any real response. To be quite honest, I'm not sure doing only blustering and chest heaving is really practical.


 
They’re accorded an allowance because there are those who will defend them as not being connected to religious perspectives.

Excuse me, but who EXACTLY here is defending them?
You think you or Mr. Resigned has any deeper hatred of
these people then me, or others on this forum? Why?
Because we are looking at the deeper issues instead of
the superficial ones?

This problem is much closer to home (literally) for me and
others here, then I bet it is for you or Mr. Resigned. These
psychos are roaming around my home country's neighborhood
where my familly and friends live! These people are the reason
why my beliefs have been tarnished in the media. You think
you have some higher vested interest in this conflict then me
or others here?

So spare me dude...

Unlike Mr. Resigned, we are not using the victims of this conflict
to forward our manipulative agendas. If he, or you, can truly
prove a link between these attrocities and religion (on the deepest
level, and not just the superficial) then please, go ahead and try.
 
It's not like most of us disagree on jihad attacks not being a problem.

It's just I don't recall having read you put forward any real response. To be quite honest, I'm not sure doing only blustering and chest heaving is really practical.


Thanks for proving me right. As far as your accusations are concerned, as they say, it takes two to tango.

You seem more like those people who shout at the Hyde Park. Keep preaching buddy, somebody will eventually convert.
 
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