Who is God?

[Etu Malku]

They really are. They have distorted due to living in caves in the dark for so long afraid of living in the light. You know those vampire movies are a bunch of bullogna. The light doesnt harm bats like the pic you have it tranforms them back into birds....

I'm afraid the entire scientific community disagrees with you.
My avatar pic is not of a bat it is of the Abrahamic Lucifer.

 

[donnann]

I'm afraid the entire scientific community disagrees with you.
My avatar pic is not of a bat it is of the Abrahamic Lucifer.

Actually I read some scientific evidence recently about bats really being birds that over the years have lost their feathers ect. I know who the picture is of but his true name is Lucifel not lucifer. The light of god doesnt harm it transforms into the archangel he used to be. I think hes afraid of the light.

 

[donnann]

I'm afraid the entire scientific community disagrees with you.
My avatar pic is not of a bat it is of the Abrahamic Lucifer.

There were pics on the internet about him that were a big lie. I know the true ones that show his anatomy just like a regular male not some guy looking like a female. Thats a big lie and so is the name. His heavenly name is Lucifel and when its used hes true not the devil or satan.

 

[Etu Malku]

There were pics on the internet about him that were a big lie. I know the true ones that show his anatomy just like a regular male not some guy looking like a female. Thats a big lie and so is the name. His heavenly name is Lucifel and when its used hes true not the devil or satan.

You are probably referring to Baphomet

Lucifer is not Baphomet, and according to Abrahamic lore is an Angel, and Angels are neither male or female.

 

[donnann]

You are probably referring to Baphomet

Lucifer is not Baphomet, and according to Abrahamic lore is an Angel, and Angels are neither male or female.

No they were pics of old plates on tablets but were false ones of the anatomy of his pre fallen self. They tried to make him look anatomically abnormal. However the true plates show him anatomically as a normal looking male.

 

[donnann]

You are probably referring to Baphomet

Lucifer is not Baphomet, and according to Abrahamic lore is an Angel, and Angels are neither male or female.

Not true. Each archangel has a female counterpart called an archeia. The anatomy is opposite just like man and woman. The concept of a non gender heaven is wrong , human was created in the image of , look around at reality.

 

[Etu Malku]

. . . look around at reality.

That's pretty funny

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Actually I read some scientific evidence recently about bats really being birds that over the years have lost their feathers ect.

The unfortunate thing is that not all books science are actually scientific. One thing that I feel, donnann, is that you often take everything you read as facts. Instead of saying that bats are birds, as a fact ( which non of us will believe), instead link to this evidence, say that you believe in it and then all of us can discuss that topic.

 

[donnann]

That's pretty funny

The anatomy is yes somewhat complex but the male looks just like a human male from the outside. And yes lucifel looks just like a human male. I know a lot about this stuff.

 

[donnann]

That's pretty funny

If you were to see his prehuman diviine self though he would have wings though but still look male anatomically.

 

[donnann]

That's pretty funny

If you were one of them you would know this.

 

[salishan]

G!d is.

anthropomorphism & metaphor


Wil
exquisite creature

sampling threads in various sections of this website
i'm noticing that
u (typically) come off as being a pretty mellow guy

except
when it comes to the issue of "anthropomorphism"

G!d isn't some larger than life being made in our image....
G!d isn't some passive aggressive chemically imbalanced being tossing lightning bolts, floods and prosperity based on a spreadsheet of who is naughty and who is nice.

i have always had u'r same knee-jerk reaction
when it comes to anthropomorphizing the Divine
(this , the way my parents raised me)
Pa (like u) is pretty laid-back most of the time , but
when he gets going on his hobbyhorses (pet-subjects)
his scoffing sarcasm sounds amazingly like u'rs , Wil
except he punctuates it at the end with
the only thing , the only Vital thing is
the Light Within

as a child , i accept this "Inner Light" without question
not just because my parents tell me that this is where u find the Divine , but
this experience of the Divine (personally) comes to make sense to me

though i eventually realize that "light" is not literal photon-particles
(bouncing around my chest-cavity)
that (instead) the word "light" (or its image in my imagination) represents a spiritual quality
realize that "light" is a metaphor

a metaphor , Wil
a metaphor to help a person understand what they are feeling , spiritually
& if u personally introspect far enough , Wil
u will undoubtedly locate (deep in u'r brain)
one or a number of metaphors u use to explain u'r spiritual feelings to u'rself

how is anthropomorphizing the Divine any different ?
any different , for religious people who find it useful (or necessary) do this ?
it is just their metaphor , which
helps them understand the Divine
(am i wrong , here ?)

this is a realization which i (long ago) have come to
uncomfortable as it is , to admit to
(though that old knee-jerk reaction persists, is still
burned deep into my brain)

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Rodney Stark somewhere points out that the reason that science
(real science in our modern sense , the testing of hypotheses)
begins to develop 800 years ago , not in Song China nor in the Islamic lands
(not within the two highest civilizations on the planet , back then)
but develops (instead) within the scholastic monasteries of (a relatively backward) Catholic Europe

why ?
because the Divine is conceived-of (by these Scholastics) in anthropomorphic terms
(no , not hands & feet nor eyes & mouth)
the Divine is seen as a "rational" being
(not an arbitrary or fickle or infinitely-mysterious entity)
thus Creation is explainable , its laws consistent & discoverable)

the right metaphor at the right time
has its utility , historically

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but metaphors can take on a life of their own

G!d is.
G!d is all there is.
G!d is the explanation for the unexplainable.

is
is
is

the being verb "is" is the most problematical word in any language
(it is the first bit of grammar which children learn
the deepest "deep-structure" of all human languages
it is primordial knowledge , & primordial illusion)
problematical , because it connects one concept to another concept ("the dog is brown")

this kind of identification-process is where "metaphors" come from
& is how concepts get "idealized" (from Plato thru Kant & beyond)

first , this is an attempt to understand something
(make simple something which is inordinately complicated)
make a metaphor
but (eventually) ideals (metaphors) take on a life of their own

Gyd is not an ideal
if Gyd is an ideal , Gyd is an illusion
(a linguistic construct , child-logic)

u need to stay real

(as my friend Stevi says to me , this past summer
the meaning of life is not metaphorical)

the real question
u , Wil
(& others)
should be asking , is

what Gyd does

 

[IowaGuy]

the real question
u , Wil
(& others)
should be asking , is
what Gyd does

Nice post, salishan.

You asked what Gyd does. What evidence is there that Gyd actively does anything? (divine intervention)

 

[donnann]

Nice post, salishan.

You asked what Gyd does. What evidence is there that Gyd actively does anything? (divine intervention)

Isnt the evidence documented in religious history through miracles? There are so many religious texts and accounts throughout history and that is evidence of divine intervention.

 

[salishan]

Isn't the evidence documented in religious history through miracles?
There are so many religious texts and accounts throughout history and that is evidence of divine intervention.

miracles


Donnann
exquisite creature

near the top of the list of my father's hobbyhorses
which riles him into a testy huff , is the subject of
"miracles"

nonsense , utter nonsense ! !
Pa says , with clenched jaw
evidence of the senses , where
is the evidence of the senses ? !

to Hicksite Quakers , the Bible is a collection of inspirational tales
hardly a single one of which are to be taken literally

my personal view is more nuanced , regarding what
(the tales of) "miracles" in sacred scriptures are
really about
(but these things
i am still working out , personally)

miracles
their "meaning" is important in the context of Judeo-Christian faith
& are interesting to me , as such

not as Gyd's flashy (Wizard of Oz) magic show
(for unsophisticated readers/believers)
but as a side-commentary upon scripture (a veiled parable) , for
those with more sophisticated sensibilities

but , miracles (as actual physical events interjected into this world) ?

(like Pa) i don't (for one second)
believe in them , as raw
(as "sensible") truth

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Donnann , regarding "evidence"
try thinking like a journalist
(the writers of scriptural accounts certainly did not do so)

have a little trust in what scientists & historians tell u

if this rocks u'r faith , then
u'r faith is based upon "metaphors"
not upon deep sacred "meanings"

these deep meanings exist within Judaism & Christianity
& (i'm guessing) within all major religions which
have survived centuries
(& yes , these meanings are not always easy to locate)
but

meaning is meaning (the religious pursuit)
& truth is truth (the secular pursuit)

& (to me , anyway) it is best to
stay very clear
about this distinction

& to
keep u'r feet planted securely in both worlds

 

[salishan]

divine intervention

God cannot be said to do anything,
however, God is causing everything that is done
through what is a conduction
of an eternal drawing of interest
at an area
that is Always the same in composition.

Everything that is happening
is coming from that area
and relates to a continuable or non-continuable interest
and a communication of
an orientation about how
an existence is doing something
in activity.

Life that is
participating understanding
from what God is causing
that is understood in unity
is the force that is doing everything.

How God is doing that
and how it is
the some life
is not aware of their role in it
is something that God is causing
to change.

Allelyah
exquisite creature

i cannot pretend to comprehend
the process u are describing (above)
but it intrigues me , profoundly

so i hope u won't mind my breaking-up u'r phraseology
into manageable units
to help me get-at its logic

two things i get (so far)

1) there is a sacred space
(where the real-action goes down)

2) Gyd's intervention is subtle
(so "natural-seeming" that the target of the intervention
feels changed but she or he hasn't a clue what's hit them)

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sacred space

there is a point at which
(before i make love to a boy)
where the secular (everyday world) drops away

he has moved just inside my "comfort-zone"
& i have moved just inside his
each of us are vulnerable (like two starships inside each-other's forcefields)
yet strangely "free"

his & my combined forcefields create a unique space
isolated from the rest of reality
which only the two of us inhabit
our private space , real to us & no one else
(generating its own moral laws , relevant only to him & to me)

& in this moment
in the blink of an eye , everything is changed
changed in my life (& hopefully in his)
(for an hour or a day , or
for a lifetime)

this is the rarest of the rare

a space
of
no ego

(this is where u are touched by the Divine)

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subtle intervention

the Taoists are very shrewd about
how ecosystems actually work
(particularly regarding the human social-ecology)

u try to use force , push hard
(overt-force , an act of "will")
to get u'r way
& yes , u may succeed & actually get u'r way
for awhile
but (at some point) someone
(or something) is going to push back , hard

if u are a "wise ruler"
u (instead) play by nature's rules , but
bend them slightly (subtly)
(the Taoists call this wu-wei , "avoid-force")

a willful act (overt-force)
is a destructive act , whereas
a subtle act (wu-wei) bends reality
starts an (under-the-radar) chain-of-events which (over time)
changes everything
every thing (but the transformation is virtually invisible)

a person feels the change , but
isn't quite sure where it came from

& i (for one)
cannot imagine Gyd intervening in the world , in
any other way

 

[donnann]

divine intervention

Allelyah
exquisite creature

i cannot pretend to comprehend
the process u are describing (above)
but it intrigues me , profoundly

so i hope u won't mind my breaking-up u'r phraseology
into manageable units
to help me get-at its logic

two things i get (so far)

1) there is a sacred space
(where the real-action goes down)

2) Gyd's intervention is subtle
(so "natural-seeming" that the target of the intervention
feels changed but she or he hasn't a clue what's hit them)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

sacred space

there is a point at which
(before i make love to a boy)
where the secular (everyday world) drops away

he has moved just inside my "comfort-zone"
& i have moved just inside his
each of us are vulnerable (like two starships inside each-other's forcefields)
yet strangely "free"

his & my combined forcefields create a unique space
isolated from the rest of reality
which only the two of us inhabit
our private space , real to us & no one else
(generating its own moral laws , relevant only to him & to me)

& in this moment
in the blink of an eye , everything is changed
changed in my life (& hopefully in his)
(for an hour or a day , or
for a lifetime)

this is the rarest of the rare

a space
of
no ego

(this is where u are touched by the Divine)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

subtle intervention

the Taoists are very shrewd about
how ecosystems actually work
(particularly regarding the human social-ecology)

u try to use force , push hard
(overt-force , an act of "will")
to get u'r way
& yes , u may succeed & actually get u'r way
for awhile
but (at some point) someone
(or something) is going to push back , hard

if u are a "wise ruler"
u (instead) play by nature's rules , but
bend them slightly (subtly)
(the Taoists call this wu-wei , "avoid-force")

a willful act (overt-force)
is a destructive act , whereas
a subtle act (wu-wei) bends reality
starts an (under-the-radar) chain-of-events which (over time)
changes everything
every thing (but the transformation is virtually invisible)

a person feels the change , but
isn't quite sure where it came from

& i (for one)
cannot imagine Gyd intervening in the world , in
any other way

GOD is JEHOVAH the body looks simular to a man but is much much bigger made up of much more light tightly packed and he does have wings as do all heavenly beings. Now Michael JEHOVAH his son his huge but not quite as big and has wings as do all heavenly beings.

 

[radarmark]

I think this is a commentary on donnann's poem. If so it is totally inappropriate, one does not criticize poetry for being vague or contradictory ("nibble again fish nerves"). If you are trying to say something about G!d, break up the chunks. For I cannot follow you.

 

[donnann]

I think this is a commentary on donnann's poem. If so it is totally inappropriate, one does not criticize poetry for being vague or contradictory ("nibble again fish nerves"). If you are trying to say something about G!d, break up the chunks. For I cannot follow you.

Wind refers to the breath of life . Whispers in the wind. Thats from my poem.

 

[donnann]

There is nothing about God that does something different. Wings are doing something different and are dependent upon the wind. When there is peace, there is not wind. The removal of wind is what God showed with Jesus' existence and God continues to show it now. There is no flying in Infinity, however, there is an experience that can feels that way and this is called unification or ascension. For God and for life that is using itself united with God perpetually, there is no such thing as "get legs" as one might say in a game of golf. However, four is able to be said with infatuation.
God showing existences with wings, Angels for example, is done when God is causing an area of united life to provide communication that says or announces that something different is happening or that something different is necessary so that human life can understand why they are being moving over to something else.
In the area of continuality (Everlasting or Infinity), there is no communication that relates that way and therefore no wind wings.

There really is flying. Heavenly beings really do have wings. The bodies are more spread out and yes they do fly.