agnosticism

[wil]

"With God, all things shall be possible." The Father allows the inane so that His Son may be glorified.

I recall a similar argument that dinosaur fossils were placed by G!d to test us...

The father allows the inane so that his Son may be glorified?

Now I'm only asking this as you seem quite capable at dishing it out, at name calling and labeling, judgement by all counts seems your forte.

So if the above is correct as you stated... Why does the Father allow you to glorify the Son? Your efforts seem quite counterproductive.

I mean, I don't give a whole lot of credit to those who can preach to the choir, it is those that are open to discussion with those that are in desagreement, and who take part sensibly and honestly that get my respect. (not indicating in any way shape or form that you have any interest in my respect...)

 

[Lunitik]

You mean this topic concerning agnosticism which is usually misunderstood to be a mid-point between Theism and atheism.

Agnosticism is the 'brains' behind atheism, and both lack the color and grandeur supposed by the deluded, proud mind.

"With God, all things shall be possible." The Father allows the inane so that His Son may be glorified.

What?!?!

Agnosticism is a rationale which is more reasonable than atheism, and guess what? It is more reasonable than theism as well. You continuously quote the Bible, why are you so sure of it? The son has glorified the father, saying he cannot imagine being equal to the father, yet you direct your glory at the son? Have you ever encountered God directly? From the beginnings of the human race we have been encountering God - even the Egyptians, who certainly predate Judaism since Jews did not exist before fleeing Egypt - have declared a single overall God, Mahat.

Christianity is not even really the school of Jesus, it is the school of Paul. Its true King of Kings is Augustine, and Paul has declared he has made the Bible all things for all people - he has aligned it to as many pagan faiths as possible to appease those in the Empire. Even Church events are more close to Mithraism ceremony than anything the early Christians were doing. Christmas is actually the winter solstice ceremony of paganism, Easter is actually the spring solstice of paganism - the two biggest ceremonies of Christianity are utterly unrelated to Christ, just the old painted over with something of the new.

You only limit your own pursuit if you are unwilling to learn from those that have not been related to Christianity. Why is Christianity something more than any other religion? Being the incarnation of God is not unique, none of the teachings are unique, nothing about Christianity is unique at all. Even dying and returning after 3 days is not unique, Christianity is simply all you know and it tells you not to look anywhere else so you are convinced. For me, you are naught but the victim of a great mind-control technique, it is not your fault.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Well, I think many of us would disagree with you, I for one certainly do.

How about instead . . .

No cigar. As a point of light in your luciferian profession, you are only showing darkness.

 

[Lunitik]

Before Augustine converted to Christianity, there were few in the world.

When Christianity became the official religion of the Empire due to this conversion, it became the binding of the whole empire.

After the empire officially dissolved, each European country has remained Christian because it has already become a tradition for all who have converted due to Augustine.

Many years later, many European countries began to develop their own empires, guess what? Each brought the conquered peoples into Christianity, and it again became the tradition of more people.

Even in the Bible, Judaism has not caught on because it is superior or unique, it has been propagated by the sword. It has become a choice: align to our faith or suffer our wrath. It is humorous that now Christians say something against Islam for doing the same, it is absolutely not different...

Do you think you would be Christian if your ancestors hadn't at least indirectly come under the jurisdiction of Rome? Later, of the Vatican? Did you know that John the Baptist, who Jesus aligned himself with by being baptized by him, has a religion which is still practiced? Jesus has merely continued John's ministry, but barely anyone even knows about this faith, yet still has more members than Christianity did when Augustine encountered it...

 

[Edward Palamar]

Agnosticism is merely the statement of Thomas (see John 20:24-29 I think) brought into today's frame-of reference.

If it were only that simple - but the reason why the events concerning the doubting of Thomas is forever included in the Gospel message of Christ is because we are in need of faith even at the Resurrection, and that Christ does not look upon us with disdain for such a need - it is for such that we pray when we say "give us this day our daily bread". Those who incur His wrath now are those who teach against those who believe in Him.

 

[Lunitik]

Give us this day our daily bread points out a life lived day to day, not worrying about tomorrow because you are trusting of existence - of God. If you truly trust That, why will you project into the future? You are being taken care of this moment, why worry?

 

[Edward Palamar]

Well no, it is based on a knowing of That - direct experience of what you call God.

The spirit of prophecy is a gift from God, not from you. You have written against that spirit. Be careful.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Now I'm only asking this as you seem quite capable at dishing it out, at name calling and labeling, judgement by all counts seems your forte.

Everything I've written here is in plain view - show me one occurence of name calling or your logic is without sanity.

 

[seattlegal]

If it were only that simple - but the reason why the events concerning the doubting of Thomas is forever included in the Gospel message of Christ is because we are in need of faith even at the Resurrection, and that Christ does not look upon us with disdain for such a need - it is for such that we pray when we say "give us this day our daily bread". Those who incur His wrath now are those who teach against those who believe in Him.

John 13:34-35 Jesus said:
34 "I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 35By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Matt 24:12 Jesus said:
12 Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.

James 1:19-20 James writes to those dispersed:
19 My dearly loved brothers, understand this: everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20 for man's anger does not accomplish God's righteousness.

Romans 2:14-16
14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences testify in support of this, and their competing thoughts either accuse or excuse them 16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
​

According to these scriptures, it looks like love is more important than faith, but I could be wrong. Is persecuting someone for their faith or lack thereof showing love? Is it showing lawlessness?

 

[seattlegal]

John 13:34-35 Jesus said:
34 "I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 35By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Matt 24:12 Jesus said:
12 Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.

James 1:19-20 James writes to those dispersed:
19 My dearly loved brothers, understand this: everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger, 20 for man's anger does not accomplish God's righteousness.

Romans 2:14-16
14 So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences testify in support of this, and their competing thoughts either accuse or excuse them 16 on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.
​

According to these scriptures, it looks like love is more important than faith, but I could be wrong. Is persecuting someone for their faith or lack thereof showing love? Is it showing lawlessness?

Are there any atheists, agnostics, theists, deists, panentheists, polytheists, or those chosing another label here who disagree with these principles?

 

[Lunitik]

The spirit of prophecy is a gift from God, not from you. You have written against that spirit. Be careful.

Where have I written against the Spirit?

I have said I have encountered the spirit, directly experienced the spirit... but it is not a gift from God, I can enter that space myself so how can it be a gift? Life itself is the gift, this moment is the gift - hence we call it the present. The spirit is our birthright, it is what is meant by "being created in Gods image", and the Bible says in a few places that God is within each of us, it has already been given - it is our very lives sustenance.

 

[Lunitik]

According to these scriptures, it looks like love is more important than faith, but I could be wrong. Is persecuting someone for their faith or lack thereof showing love? Is it showing lawlessness?

Faith, trust, these are aspects of love...

 

[wil]

Everything I've written here is in plain view - show me one occurence of name calling or your logic is without sanity.

Seems I've quoted you with my response....what do you call it when you categrorize anyone who disagrees with you as 'inane'?

The Father allows the inane so that His Son may be glorified.

Were those not your words? Are they scriptural?

in·ane/iˈnān/


Adjective:Silly; stupid; not significant.Synonyms:vacuous - empty - senseless - blank - foolish - vacant

 

[Etu Malku]

What?!?!

Agnosticism is a rationale which is more reasonable than atheism, and guess what? It is more reasonable than theism as well. You continuously quote the Bible, why are you so sure of it? The son has glorified the father, saying he cannot imagine being equal to the father, yet you direct your glory at the son? Have you ever encountered God directly? From the beginnings of the human race we have been encountering God - even the Egyptians, who certainly predate Judaism since Jews did not exist before fleeing Egypt - have declared a single overall God, Mahat.

Christianity is not even really the school of Jesus, it is the school of Paul. Its true King of Kings is Augustine, and Paul has declared he has made the Bible all things for all people - he has aligned it to as many pagan faiths as possible to appease those in the Empire. Even Church events are more close to Mithraism ceremony than anything the early Christians were doing. Christmas is actually the winter solstice ceremony of paganism, Easter is actually the spring solstice of paganism - the two biggest ceremonies of Christianity are utterly unrelated to Christ, just the old painted over with something of the new.

You only limit your own pursuit if you are unwilling to learn from those that have not been related to Christianity. Why is Christianity something more than any other religion? Being the incarnation of God is not unique, none of the teachings are unique, nothing about Christianity is unique at all. Even dying and returning after 3 days is not unique, Christianity is simply all you know and it tells you not to look anywhere else so you are convinced. For me, you are naught but the victim of a great mind-control technique, it is not your fault.

I thought it was the school of John the Baptist, and after John's #1 disciple, Simon Magus was murdered, Yeshua got the torch.

 

[Lunitik]

I thought it was the school of John the Baptist, and after John's #1 disciple, Simon Magus was murdered, Yeshua got the torch.

John's school continued on, and survives today (Mandaeism). Jesus has himself separated from John in saying that while John baptizes by water, he baptizes by fire - he actually refers to his path to at-one-ment here. Interesting, though, that Christians still baptize by water... I would posit that it is because at-one-ment is too difficult to put across, few priests ever experience it for example because they are too much attached to their beliefs.

Paul is responsible for the appealing to Pagan rituals and beliefs, he has made it more aligned to already prevalent faiths - for instance, Egyptian belief has founded the concept of trinity, it is never discussed in the Bible. I have already discussed how none of the holidays of Christianity actually align with the life of Christ, they are each related to Paganism. Indeed, the Catholic Mass is largely based on Mithraism rituals as well...

Christianity is very much a synchronization of faiths in the Empire, especially after Augustine...

 

[Lunitik]

Paul saying "I have made (this faith) all things for all people" is Paul's confession that he has changed the scriptures, that it is no longer true to Christ. Of course, the Pope gets its authority from Paul, so the Vatican will stand by him til the end. Of course, even since then many things have been changed, but at least most of that is documented...

 

[radarmark]

If it were only that simple - but the reason why the events concerning the doubting of Thomas is forever included in the Gospel message of Christ is because we are in need of faith even at the Resurrection, and that Christ does not look upon us with disdain for such a need - it is for such that we pray when we say "give us this day our daily bread". Those who incur His wrath now are those who teach against those who believe in Him.

Methinks you read too much into it. Try to back off your ideology and read it for what it says, forget about the baggage of "those who teach about".

 

[radarmark]

Are there any atheists, agnostics, theists, deists, panentheists, polytheists, or those chosing another label here who disagree with these principles?

As a skeptik agnostic panentheist Christian, heck no.

 

[radarmark]

Seems I've quoted you with my response....what do you call it when you categrorize anyone who disagrees with you as 'inane'?



Were those not your words? Are they scriptural?

in·ane/iˈnān/


Adjective:Silly; stupid; not significant.Synonyms:vacuous - empty - senseless - blank - foolish - vacant

HU-ARGHHHHHH! I resmble that remark!

 

[Lunitik]

For me, Muhammad is perfectly right in trying to remove the Pagan and Egyptian (not sure there is a separation, but just in case) beliefs from the Abrahamic line, he has attempted to create something which is again pure. I cannot approve of Islam, it has become too much material as well, too much about ego and violence. It is really inevitable for all faiths that this occurs though, it is mans way and it is why there will always be truly spiritual men that separate from the corruption that is called orthodoxy.

Many Christians are surprised that Muhammad has not been born a Christian, but in actuality he is more closely related to Abraham, the faith he was born into had simply never accepted Moses - why would they? His line has not been enslaved in Egypt, Moses is meaningless to them. Do you really think that "God's people" are confined to a single group, or do you think it is anyone that loves him?

For me, Sufism is truly beautiful, and the work of the Seven Pillars House of Wisdom is truly meaningful. They have intermingled with many mystic schools, and are utterly about love. It is strange how easily the mystics can get along considering the peripheral faiths are at such odds. There are many proofs though that the Enlightenment period was spearheaded by Sufi's, the flying heart is prevalent in Enlightenment period art for instance. Sufi's have had a great impact on Western life, even though few realize it - even Protestantism has occurred because of intermingling with Sufi's.

Then, of course, they are more focused on Islam than anything else, which is why I lean more towards synchronistic mystics such as Osho, now there is nothing excluded - that is truly a beautiful thing because all discuss the same ocean. It is my experience that all is one, any kind of separation is a crime toward That - just mans ego asserting itself again.