agnosticism

luecy7 said:
If people gossip, and fabricate, bringing physical life to your name, then are you living as result? I don't think so. If they don't, then is your name living? I don't think so.

There is a tendency to declare what the name means, or points to, rather than letting the person declare what the name points to. As with a person, with God.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of an Aeon? For instance the Aeon of Einstein, he is long gone but his essence is still felt, discussed, intimated, influencing, etc. This is an immortality that is real, something I can wrap my brain around, not like the supernatural kind of immortality.

Originally Posted by Etu Malku
Physical immortality escapes us at the present time.
Click to expand...
Interesting statement. I would reverse it. At the present time, who escapes from being physical?
Click to expand...
I think you get what I'm saying but I'll restate it. As of today, there is no way to make the physical body eternal.

As for escaping the physical? We do this every night when we sleep, every time we read a book, watch a movie, daydream, meditate, conduct rituals and ceremonies.
 
Etu Malku said:
Have you ever heard of an Aeon? For instance the Aeon of Einstein, he is long gone but his essence is still felt, discussed, intimated, influencing, etc. This is an immortality that is real, something I can wrap my brain around, not like the supernatural kind of immortality.
Click to expand...
That is what I gathered. I don't think his name is alive or too concerned with surviving, do you? The former Mr. Einstein might still be around somewhere though.

Etu Malku said:
I think you get what I'm saying but I'll restate it. As of today, there is no way to make the physical body eternal.
Click to expand...
With God, all things are possible.

Etu Malku said:
As for escaping the physical? We do this every night when we sleep, every time we read a book, watch a movie, daydream, meditate, conduct rituals and ceremonies.
Click to expand...
I don't think so.
 
luecy7 said:
With God, all things are possible.
Click to expand...
Could you explain to me how this is so?

Originally Posted by Etu Malku
As for escaping the physical? We do this every night when we sleep, every time we read a book, watch a movie, daydream, meditate, conduct rituals and ceremonies.
Click to expand...
I don't think so.
Click to expand...
Could you explain to me how you don't think so?
 
"Modernists place the foundation of religious philosophy in that doctrine which is commonly called Agnosticism. According to this teaching human reason is confined entirely within the field of phenomena, that is to say, to things that appear, and in the manner in which they appear: it has neither the right nor the power to overstep these limits. Hence it is incapable of lifting itself up to God, and of recognizing His existence, even by means of visible things. From this it is inferred that God can never be the direct object of science, and that, as regards history, He must not be considered as an historical subject."

"Let us turn for a moment, Venerable Brethren, to that most disastrous doctrine of agnosticism. By it every avenue to God on the side of the intellect is barred to man, while a better way is supposed to be opened from the side of a certain sense of the soul and action. But who does not see how mistaken is such a contention?"

from
Pope Pius X - Pascendi Dominici Gregis - On the Doctrine of the Modernists - 8 September 1907
 
Edward Palamar said:
"Modernists place the foundation of religious philosophy in that doctrine which is commonly called Agnosticism. According to this teaching human reason is confined entirely within the field of phenomena, that is to say, to things that appear, and in the manner in which they appear: it has neither the right nor the power to overstep these limits. Hence it is incapable of lifting itself up to God, and of recognizing His existence, even by means of visible things. From this it is inferred that God can never be the direct object of science, and that, as regards history, He must not be considered as an historical subject."
Click to expand...

Simply false, it is by believing you already know that a difficulty in finding God arises. If you believe God is or is not, mind is stuck on this conclusion and there is no possibility to ascending to a state where God is a reality. It will remain a theology, a belief which seems logical to you - never more.


Edward Palamar said:

"Let us turn for a moment, Venerable Brethren, to that most disastrous doctrine of agnosticism. By it every avenue to God on the side of the intellect is barred to man, while a better way is supposed to be opened from the side of a certain sense of the soul and action. But who does not see how mistaken is such a contention?"
Click to expand...

Atheism and theism are both worse than agnosticism, it requires a certain egolessness to admit you simply do not know - and that is what agnosticism means. Reading a book, perhaps you memorize a particular description of a place, and you go to that place and see how different your imagination was. This is what most "religious" people go on doing, they create imaginations which pollute this word. God is not reachable through intellect at all, but your Pope is in the business of mind control and ego feeding, so these words do not surprise me.

It is humorous though that your Pope (itself a humorous title because the Bible says not to call anyone Father except God, yet Pope means father) has called agnosticism modern though, agnosticism predates Jesus so how can you call it modern? Buddha was absolutely agnostic...
 
I am utterly against the person that says That cannot be known, experienced, but it is also true that most people that claim to know have no idea at all.
 
Lunitik said:
I am utterly against the person
Click to expand...
That is rather obvious in your writing against the spirit of prophecy which proceeds from the Father through the Holy Spirit. Your stance is based solely on pride - one can even conclude you are against yourself - the ultimate fate of a room full of modernists is disaster.
 
I thought this forum was about discussion of what could be true. I am sorry, as an extreme scientific skeptic, I cannot but second Etu Malku's response. As an over-the-top believing Christian mystic, I cannot but second Lunitik's reply. Need we be bound my one man's opinion (even if he wears the tiara)? I think not. I think, I experience G!d, therefore I am.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
 
Edward Palamar said:
the ultimate fate of a room full of modernists is disaster.
Click to expand...

Was Jesus' last supper not a room full of "modernists"? Edward - your own faith, Christianity, was once a break from traditionalism, was it not?

And if you're arguing against modernism and in favor of traditionalism; what is the ultimate fate of a room full of traditionalists? And what historical point in time should we assign to the traditionalists?
 
Etu Malku said:
I would rather think it would lead to the Truth. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ, Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, has taken the time, effort, and energy to place Himself in the forefront of our lives - yet no one comes to Him unless the Father call him (her).
 
radarmark said:
I thought this forum was about discussion of what could be true.
Click to expand...
You mean this topic concerning agnosticism which is usually misunderstood to be a mid-point between Theism and atheism.

Agnosticism is the 'brains' behind atheism, and both lack the color and grandeur supposed by the deluded, proud mind.

"With God, all things shall be possible." The Father allows the inane so that His Son may be glorified.
 
Edward Palamar said:
Jesus Christ, Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, has taken the time, effort, and energy to place Himself in the forefront of our lives - yet no one comes to Him unless the Father call him (her).
Click to expand...
Well, I think many of us would disagree with you, I for one certainly do.

How about instead . . . "Jesus Christ is One of many Light Bearers throughout time, that shows the Way, Truth, and Life"
 
Edward Palamar said:
You mean this topic concerning agnosticism which is usually misunderstood to be a mid-point between Theism and atheism.

Agnosticism is the 'brains' behind atheism, and both lack the color and grandeur supposed by the deluded, proud mind.

"With God, all things shall be possible." The Father allows the inane so that His Son may be glorified.
Click to expand...


I totally disagree with you. Agnosticism just mean "I do not know". Since I do not know if the sun will come up tomorrow (inductive logic is never certain) or that Twistor Theory is justified (no math higher that arithmatic is certain), I find it rather odd to say I know (with certainty) the miond of G!d.

Agnosticism is merely the statement of Thomas (see John 20:24-29 I think) brought into today's frame-of reference.

And you need not be so dismissive and parochial with your tone.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt.
 
Edward Palamar said:
That is rather obvious in your writing against the spirit of prophecy which proceeds from the Father through the Holy Spirit. Your stance is based solely on pride - one can even conclude you are against yourself - the ultimate fate of a room full of modernists is disaster.
Click to expand...

Well no, it is based on a knowing of That - direct experience of what you call God.
 
Edward Palamar said:
Jesus Christ, Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, has taken the time, effort, and energy to place Himself in the forefront of our lives - yet no one comes to Him unless the Father call him (her).
Click to expand...

Every single scripture says their founder is the Way, the Truth, and the Life... why have you chosen a particular one instead of trying to figure out what Way, Truth, and Life each is actually discussing? Here's something for you to wrap your head around: Each is discussing the same destination.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top