agnosticism

[Lunitik]

Any Muslims reading: Note I said Islam, not islam, I do not think it matters whose teachings are most effective for you, but Muhammad is perfectly right that ultimately it is surrender to That which is the true, absolute religion. Muhammad is a man, and as such essentially irrelevant, Allah - that isness - is all that matters, all there really is. All that exists is Allah - all that is is this isness.

Christians actually agree, although their ego's won't allow them to admit it in many cases. The Bible goes on saying "Thy will be done", it infers that your will doesn't matter if it disagrees with existence. It instructs you to accept all that is because God knows better than us. That said, the surrender that Muslims seem to believe in is simply a conversion, and the Jihad is the battle to ensure that conversion. It is not so at all, Jihad is the battle against self to permit your own absolute surrender, the overcoming of ego. It means the same as the Jew's "Israel". Muhammad has written "My message is peace" on his own sword, it is because he has only needed to end the strife those that accepted him were having inflicted on them. Today, Muslims go on the offensive, it is utterly against the Qu'ran. Muhammad has said to allow others their faith provided you are permitted your own, it has not said to kill everyone you disagree with.

I prefer to say "existence" instead of Allah or God or Dharmakaya or Brahman or Yahwey or whatever else simply because it is generic and yet all inclusive - the name you give the nameless is irrelevant, it is simply a way to possess That.

 

[IowaGuy]

Those who incur His wrath now are those who teach against those who believe in Him.

Do you have any specific examples of those who are incurring "His wrath"?

I am of the opposite opinion; that many of those who incur "His wrath" in today's world are actually the Catholic faithful.

The worst "wrath" I have seen on this planet, in the slums of Mexico City & Caracas, was largely incurred by Christians (Catholics) who were unfortunate enough to have been born there. Most of them have the theist faith you describe, but live in a hell on earth; many without clean drinking water or sewer facilities or enough food for their family. Many slum families have teenage daughters hooking on the street to help put food on the table. Next time you're in Mexico City go see for yourself, simply head towards the industrial area near the railroad tracks. In Caracas the worst surrounds the city on the outskirts where land is available for squatting and families can build their cardboard shelters. The large cities of most other Latin America countries have similar areas; literally millions of people live in slums throughout Latin America.

And the situation continues to get worse as the slum-bound Catholic faithful don't use birth control and therefore have large families despite not having the means to provide for their kids. But your Pope continues to prohibit birth control for his faithful sheep (who for some reason listen to him). So yes indeed, they are suffering "His wrath" at the hands of the Pope's policies. But at least they have heaven to look forward to...

 

[Lunitik]

No one is teaching against Christ, people teach against Christianity.

Christ was a beautiful man, he has provided many beautiful words, but the organization that uses him to control people is utterly corrupt. One of the richest organizations on this planet, and yet look at the conditions of its people as IowaGuy has spoken of briefly - yet there are examples world wide.

Maybe if the Vatican didn't horde so much wealth, there would cease to be such levels of poverty the world over. It is rumored that the Vatican makes in excess of $50 billion a year, yet Paul - the original Pope - has struggled as a lowly fisherman for much of his life. Jesus has said that it is easier for a camel to pass through the head of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, I do not see how the greed of the Vatican can be excused. I would be very surprised to see any Pope in heaven, it is utterly disgusting how they have twisted such a beautiful man's words. It is even more amazing that Christians do not even question it for the most part...

I do not place Jesus higher than any other religious founder either though, for me he is no different to any other enlightened being - just lucky to have converted Caesar Augustine. Literally nothing he has said is original in essence, just new terminology. Yet, I can only find myself loving any enlightened person because I know what they have endured to reach those heights. Enlightenment is to be filled with the Holy Spirit, that is the very nature of that light.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Seems I've quoted you with my response....what do you call it when you categrorize anyone who disagrees with you as 'inane'?

You seem to have taken that personally, wil, and that you've done on your own. And for the record, it has nothing to do with whether another agrees nor disagrees with the statement, Christ is still glorified in the Father's so doing.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Have you ever encountered God directly?

I saw Him, Christ Jesus, face to face, and it is He Who has resurrected me, body and soul, no one else, as He has said He would do. Now that is fine for me, how about you? If all you have left in you is the usual snide remarks against all which He has accomplished for over 2,000 years, it is probably best you get it all out of your system, lest the good culture shock paralize you forever.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Before Augustine converted to Christianity, there were few in the world.

That hinges upon your definition of few.

When Christianity became the official religion of the Empire due to this conversion, it became the binding of the whole empire. . . etc.

There is only one Christ, Jesus, who not only performed more miracles in His day than any other prophet, God, Himself, had set aside His destiny - as for you and me, eternity will center upon one day at Calvary.

Did you know . . . John the Baptist?

You are conversing with him, I received the surname Edward Palamar in course of Christ granting me rebirth.

 

[Edward Palamar]

It is humorous though that your Pope . . .

I don't much disagree with the Pope = Father formula, but when one calls upon the Father in the process, the outcome is not the same. Hence, even a 'pope' can communicate using the spirit of prophecy.

This is what I meant by being careful, or you will invariably throw out the baby with the bathwater, which in this case is knowing the facts concerning agnosticism, that it is heresy, it is contrary to God's teachings.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Christ was a beautiful man,

He is a beautiful man, and shall forever be.

 

[Edward Palamar]

According to these scriptures, it looks like love is more important than faith,

St. Paul wrote that love is the greater gift, but faith is also important.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Christians still baptize by water...

Because Christ willingly accepted that simple ritual, too, and continued it. He has personally baptized me in His granting me rebirth of water and spirit through His Church.

 

[seattlegal]

St. Paul wrote that love is the greater gift, but faith is also important.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

1 If I speak the languages of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have [the gift of] prophecy,
and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith, so that I can move mountains,
but do not have love, I am nothing.​

 

[Etu Malku]

I saw Him, Christ Jesus, face to face, and it is He Who has resurrected me, body and soul, no one else, as He has said He would do. Now that is fine for me, how about you? If all you have left in you is the usual snide remarks against all which He has accomplished for over 2,000 years, it is probably best you get it all out of your system, lest the good culture shock paralize you forever.

Cool . . . now we 'know' your nuts

 

[Lunitik]

I saw Him, Christ Jesus, face to face, and it is He Who has resurrected me, body and soul, no one else, as He has said He would do. Now that is fine for me, how about you? If all you have left in you is the usual snide remarks against all which He has accomplished for over 2,000 years, it is probably best you get it all out of your system, lest the good culture shock paralize you forever.

I glorify nothing but God himself, begotten does mean born of, and thus the Word is still the created. Without ever aligning myself with Jesus or any other servant of God, without ever going indirectly, I too have been resurrected - my experience is slightly different though, you see I can say "I and the father are one" just as Jesus did, and I can see that it is true of all enlightened ones.

Question though, how has life changed on this earth for the better since Christ left this earth? We have constantly seen Christians attempt to bring us back to the time of Jesus, many groups holding the human race back, punishing those that are interested in any sort of advancement - especially science. Many Christians are utterly filled with hate, yet the Bible says God is love - all that exists is love. You, yourself, have come here to put down others beliefs and proclaim your own superior. God is one, there are many rivers, Jesus is a popular one but there are many that are more complete.

Let us remind ourselves that Jesus only ministered for 3 years, Buddha for instance has ministered for 45 years after his enlightenment, how can Jesus even compete on completeness? I think that you will find some competition with either Buddha or Krishna on total miracles, but what relevance do miracles actually have? What a petty grounds for belief...

 

[Lunitik]

Cool . . . now we 'know' you're nuts

I believe he simply refers to at-one-ment...

Remember 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 - it says essentially that all of existence is Christ in a metaphoric way. It is one of many very powerful devices in the Bible, but of course every branch of religion will contain many and all are equally valid in my view if they assist you in arriving.

Then, Hindu's say they see Krishna sometimes, and if this guy is saying he has literally seen Jesus - well, I'll have to agree with you. It is simply imagination, else why do Hindu's see only Krishna, and Christians only Jesus? He will have to become more mature in his faith, but it is part of the journey. Papaji has started seeing Krishna, dancing with him when he was quite young, for me he became one of the greatest teachers of our time - his primary teachings are of Advaita (not two).

 

[Lunitik]

At the end of the day, who is Jesus without God? Will anyone have heard of the son of Mary if he has not been chosen by God? He is an irrelevant carpenter without that calling, we cannot even find any of his work so he was not even a popular carpenter.

All messengers or prophets or whatever, they are no better than any human, they simply have encountered something which most have not. They are each born of womb like any of us, each have had to deal with everything we have, what is special? It is just that they have encountered their true being and we have not.

For me, people that glorify the man chosen by God have utterly poisoned the very word God, that is why I go on saying "existence" instead. Realizing you have never been separate from the Whole, that you are eternal because That is eternal, that is the only importance of religion. The pure love which arises out of that knowing, howsoever you can find it, is beautiful. It is irrelevant what you call it, how your mind perceives it, just don't live this life without feeling that bliss.

 

[Etu Malku]

All messengers or prophets or whatever, they are no better than any human, they simply have encountered something which most have not. They are each born of womb like any of us, each have had to deal with everything we have, what is special? It is just that they have encountered their true being and we have not.

I don't buy any of that. God is simply an archetypal image, a powerful one though, and a huge meme. Human beings that believe they are in touch with divinity are purely imagining this, the god archetype(s) [in the case of polytheists] have been brought to the consciousness by way of all kinds of symbolism and whatnot.

Now, I have nothing against this and have used this process of symbolically bringing to the consciousness various deities and shadows during several rituals, but it is only that and nothing more. I don't go running around saying I have been kissed by Namaah or I beat Belial at poker the other night . . . I accept the fact that it was archetypal imagery, and useful for the psychodrama of the ritual but not useful for my everyday conscious life.

 

[Edward Palamar]

Question though, how has life changed on this earth for the better since Christ left this earth?

There is now hope, simply put.

You, yourself, have come here to put down others beliefs and proclaim your own superior.

That has not been my intent, neither can you quote me as writing anything as such. Your inference is calumnious.

Your other false Christs, such as Buddha or Krishna which you mention, are less than Christ Jesus in that you willfully insult while claiming their superiority. There is a saying, "A man can be judged by the company he keeps."

 

[Edward Palamar]

. . . equally valid in my view if they assist you in arriving.

So long as that arriving includes insulting others due to a hateful attitude . . .

Fortunately, it is possible to communicate in love. Try it sometime.

 

[seattlegal]

I don't go running around saying I have been kissed by Namaah

Shhh! You might upset Jimmy!

 

[radarmark]

So long as that arriving includes insulting others due to a hateful attitude . . .

Fortunately, it is possible to communicate in love. Try it sometime.

For someone who tosses out inane and "false Christs" like they were candy on Halloween, you have not a leg to stand on.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!