Bahai ....... political ambitions?

Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
It was not a free choice that Baha'u'llah had to make OB nor was he and his companions 'Free'. I suggest you read of the harsh conditions that we imposed on Baha’u’llah and his followers.

Regards Tony
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Where do you suggest that I read about that, Tony?
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
There is a Hadith about Akka and the fleas. Abdul'baha gives an account how he slept with the fleas

".. His room remained unrepaired and in very bad condition. Not only were its walls damp but the roof leaked and the floor was covered with dust. He sat and slept on a mat in that room. His bed cover was a sheepskin. The room was infested with fleas and when He slept under the sheepskin, fleas gathered and began biting. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá worked out a tactic of defeating the fleas by turning over His sheepskin at intervals. He would sleep for a while before the fleas found their way again to the inner side. He would then turn the sheepskin over again. Every night He had to resort to this tactic eight to ten times..."

Was that was a comfortable existance?

Remember Abdul'baha did everything he could to keep Baha'u'llah, His Family and all the exiles as comfortable as possible. Abdul'baha was very good at providing for others.

This is the Hadith.

"And He - may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him - hath said: "I announce unto you a city, on the shores of the sea, white, whose whiteness is pleasing unto God - exalted be He! It is called Akka. He that hath been bitten by one of its fleas is better, in the estimation of God, than he who hath received a grievous blow in the path of God. And he that raiseth therein the call to prayer, his voice will be lifted up unto Paradise. And he that remaineth therein for seven days in the face of the enemy, God will gather him with Khidr - peace be upon Him - and God will protect him from the most great terror on the Day of Resurrection."

Regards Tony
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All those fleas........ not nice.
 
mrym said:
He did not go there on His own will. the government banished Him, and before the banishment executed many Babi's (at that time, we still just had the Babi religion.) Many kids were in the banished caravan of Bahaullah, and you should read the account of hardship the kids and women had to tolerate when, in winter time, they had to cross snowy mountains to reach Istanbul, with no proper clothes or shoes or food. these are the basic historical acts about the Babi and Baha'i movement really. If you do not know the basics, you cannot move forward correctly.
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I think his Dad got him out an clear. But he went to Istanbul and stayed there freely, and with staff, I believe.
Or do you know better?
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
It was not a free choice that Baha'u'llah had to make OB nor was he and his companions 'Free'. I suggest you read of the harsh conditions that we imposed on Baha’u’llah and his followers.

Regards Tony
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OK....... I checked up from some of my docs, and this is how Wallbridge describes Bahauallah's time in Istanbul.

The Iranian government, seeing the recovery of the Babi community under Bahaullah’s guidance, was anxious to have him removed from Baghdad. The Iranian ambassador in Istanbul steadily agitated for this end. Eventually, the Turks gave in and ordered Bahaullah to Istanbul as a guest of the government.

He had a more difficult time later, in Akka, but I need to review all that.
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
It was not a free choice that Baha'u'llah had to make OB nor was he and his companions 'Free'. I suggest you read of the harsh conditions that we imposed on Baha’u’llah and his followers.

Regards Tony
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I note that Wallbridge refers his readers to Cole's historical writings, but his own mentions of Bahauallah in Akka don't suggest that he lived too badly, Tony:-

When Bahaullah left for Edirne, he left behind Aqa Muhammad-‘Ali Jilawdar (also known as Sabbagh-i Yazdi) as a sort of Babi agent to assist pilgrims passing through the city. About two years later he joined Bahaullah in Edirne. Others—both Baha’i and Azali—came to the city. Nine were arrested in 1868 at the time of Bahaullah’s exile to ‘Akka, interrogated, and either deported or sent along with the other exiles.
While Bahaullah and ‘Abd al-Baha were in ‘Akka, most Baha’i pilgrims passed through Istanbul, preferring the convenience of Russian railroads and steamships to the arduous overland journey through Iraq and Syria. Some stayed on in Istanbul. The Baha’i Qajar prince Abu al-Hasan Mirza Shaykh al-Ra’is spent several years there in the 1880s and 1890s, for example. See Juan Cole’s articles on this individual.

I don't think that they could leave, mostly because they had nowhere else to go, or be sent to.
 
mrym said:
now, I do not REALLY wish to sound like someone ho tries to sell her ideas and believs. I just mean to say "let's all unite to make a better world. no matter what our religion is. the world at present is not good. it is SICK."
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I don't mind people who promote their religions or beliefs, when such people call at our home we offer hospitality, no matter what their religion.

But I don't think that people want a Bahai world, for instance, when Bahai (in general) is asked about real Equality for all people, it doesn't respond, won't answer. I asked for your response to our Equality Act 2010 (UK)..... and nothing came back. That's a problem, I think. Here is that paragraph, again:-

Human Rights rules where I live (covered by our Equalities Act 2010) provide for freedom, and protection from discrimination, harassment and victimisation of everybody and anybody, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, sexuality, race, colour, religion, marital status, nationality, disabilities, age and more. Do you think that Bahai should support and protect all those without discrimination?
 
Careful, @mrym. There have been instances of revealing personal information about fellow forum members here on this forum recently.
 
mrym said:
He did not go there on His own will. the government banished Him, and before the banishment executed many Babi's (at that time, we still just had the Babi religion.) Many kids were in the banished caravan of Bahaullah, and you should read the account of hardship the kids and women had to tolerate when, in winter time, they had to cross snowy mountains to reach Istanbul, with no proper clothes or shoes or food. these are the basic historical acts about the Babi and Baha'i movement really. If you do not know the basics, you cannot move forward correctly.
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Sure, many Babis were executed, there had been uprisings and battles with the nation's forces, and Bahauallah had been imprisoned with offenders, but he was never executed, but got out of the country.... true?

Please can you direct me to where I can read Bahauallah's memoirs about the snowy mountains with no food, clothes or shoes?
 
I really did not want my name to be associated with this thread, but my resistance to temptation has limits. I’m thinking that the popularity among Baha’i’s of publicly denouncing the oppression of Baha’is in Iran, at the same time that they are using the “no politics” rule to be silent about oppression against other groups and categories of people, is enough for me to disprove the theory that if Baha’is came to power, they would never oppress anyone or discriminate against anyone.

That’s not counting all the ways that Baha’is are already oppressing each other and other people, and finding excuses for it in their writings.
 
Longfellow said:
I really did not want my name to be associated with this thread, but my resistance to temptation has limits. I’m thinking that the popularity among Baha’i’s of publicly denouncing the oppression of Baha’is in Iran, at the same time that they are using the “no politics” rule to be silent about oppression against other groups and categories of people, is enough for me to disprove the theory that if Baha’is came to power, they would never oppress anyone or discriminate against anyone.

That’s not counting all the ways that Baha’is are already oppressing each other and other people, and finding excuses for it in their writings.
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I'm sure the Baha'i in Iran have enough problems from the government in trying to avoid persecution on charges of incitement and so forth, than to stir up even more trouble for themselves by publicly objecting to 'oppression against other groups and categories of people'. It would be just the stick the government needs to beat on Baha'is as a disruptive sect, etc. We are talking about Iranian oppression against Bahai's in present time -- not about possible future oppression by Baha'is?
 
Longfellow said:
Maybe you forgot which thread you were in when you posted that?
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Perhaps. But you are not addressing my point?
You said:
I’m thinking that the popularity among Baha’i’s of publicly denouncing the oppression of Baha’is in Iran, at the same time that they are using the “no politics” rule to be silent about oppression against other groups and categories of people, is enough for me to disprove the theory that if Baha’is came to power, they would never oppress anyone or discriminate against anyone.
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Longfellow said:
This is the “Bahai ....... political ambitions?” thread.
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You are correct. I do apologise. Please ignore that last sentence in my post, and address the first part?
I said:
I'm sure the Baha'i in Iran have enough problems from the government in trying to avoid persecution on charges of incitement and so forth, than to stir up even more trouble for themselves by publicly objecting to 'oppression against other groups and categories of people'. It would be just the stick the government needs to beat on Baha'is as a disruptive sect, etc
Click to expand...
 
Longfellow said:
I really did not want my name to be associated with this thread, but my resistance to temptation has limits. I’m thinking that the popularity among Baha’i’s of publicly denouncing the oppression of Baha’is in Iran, at the same time that they are using the “no politics” rule to be silent about oppression against other groups and categories of people, is enough for me to disprove the theory that if Baha’is came to power, they would never oppress anyone or discriminate against anyone.

That’s not counting all the ways that Baha’is are already oppressing each other and other people, and finding excuses for it in their writings.
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That is a reasonable observation, to which I have also been considering. I guess in the end, what can be shared are the Baha'i World News Service articles.

https://news.bahai.org/story/1613/

I do not see that by posting these stories, in any way shows that others will be inclined to undertake those actions.

There appears ro be a very fine line between information and involvement. Regards Tony
 
Longfellow said:
I really did not want my name to be associated with this thread, but my resistance to temptation has limits. I’m thinking that the popularity among Baha’i’s of publicly denouncing the oppression of Baha’is in Iran, at the same time that they are using the “no politics” rule to be silent about oppression against other groups and categories of people, is enough for me to disprove the theory that if Baha’is came to power, they would never oppress anyone or discriminate against anyone.

That’s not counting all the ways that Baha’is are already oppressing each other and other people, and finding excuses for it in their writings.
Click to expand...
Yes! For sure!
I was referred to the Iran human rights movement which had reported about the three Baha'i ladies who are ankle gated instead of serving prison sentences, and right alongside that piece was a report about the suppression of LGBT folks, and another about suppression of the million Christians, but Baha'i won't mention much for gays etc.
 
Tone Bristow-Stagg said:
That is a reasonable observation, to which I have also been considering. I guess in the end, what can be shared are the Baha'i World News Service articles.

https://news.bahai.org/story/1613/

I do not see that by posting these stories, in any way shows that others will be inclined to undertake those actions.

There appears ro be a very fine line between information and involvement. Regards Tony
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What exactly happened in Roshankouh?
Why did the local authority knock those houses down?
 
badger said:
Yes! For sure!
I was referred to the Iran human rights movement which had reported about the three Baha'i ladies who are ankle gated instead of serving prison sentences, and right alongside that piece was a report about the suppression of LGBT folks, and another about suppression of the million Christians, but Baha'i won't mention much for gays etc.
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Baha'i are not the Iran human rights movement though? Do Jews and Zoroastrians and Christians make waves with the Iranian government about LGBT rights, or Baha'i rights? It's not America or the UK
 
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