Can you relate?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Matthew 5:17 "Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion"

Abdu'l-Baha explained it well.

"...To recapitulate: our meaning is that the change and modification of conditions, and the altered requirements of different centuries and times, are the cause of the abrogation of laws. For a time comes when these laws are no longer suitably adapted to conditions. Consider how very different are the requirements of the first centuries, of the Middle Ages, and of modern times. Is it possible that the laws of the first centuries could be enforced at present? It is evident that it would be impossible and impracticable. In the same manner, after the lapse of a few centuries, the requirements of the present time will not be the same as those of the future, and certainly there will be change and alteration. In Europe the laws are unceasingly altered and modified; in bygone years, how many laws existed in the organizations and systems of Europe, which are now abrogated! These changes and alterations are due to the variation and mutation of thought, conditions and customs. If it were not so, the prosperity of the world of humanity would be wrecked. For example, there is in the Pentateuch a law that if anyone break the Sabbath, he shall be put to death. Moreover, there are ten sentences of death in the Pentateuch. Would it be possible to keep these laws in our time? It is clear that it would be absolutely impossible. Consequently, there are changes and modifications in the laws, and these are a sufficient proof of the supreme wisdom of God..." Abdu’l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 92.
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I don't think he explains it.

I don't think Jesus meant that at all. Divine law is eternal, regardless of time and place and religion. It is never abrogated.

I think Jesus meant He had come to renew the understanding of true eternal spiritual law, that never changes, not to replace old rules with new ones pertaining to the time. Paul explains that constantly. Spiritual law can seem directly opposite to natural law. That is the sermon on the mount, and the true meaning of sacrifice, imo
 
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The problem really is confusing eternal divine law, with natural human law. The former is about the eternal soul, and the latter about the temporal rules for society, imo?

Jesus knew the world would always be the world. He was concerned (only) with the soul?
 
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RJM said:
And I believe 'God' responds to the sincere soul any time, any place -- any faith or lack of faith. I'm unlikely to 'modify' my opinion to meet those who choose to believe a thousand reign of the inerrant word of Baha'u'llah as the only option for all humanity and essentially binning Jesus and all previous 'messengers' ... so
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Is anybody "binning Jesus" here?
I hope not .. I share my name with Jesus. :)
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
It remains the Word, it remains the life giving force, the call to humanity, no matter what we choose.
.. it is own reaction to God's Message that unites or divides humanity.
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Atheists too call for humaneness. What is supposed to be God's word has never united and always divided humanity.
You too are dividing us by telling that what Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists believe is not true,; and only what you say is true.
 
RJM said:
The problem really is confusing eternal divine law, with natural human law. The former is about the eternal soul, and the latter about the temporal rules for society, imo?

Jesus knew the world would always be the world. He was concerned (only) with the soul?
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Thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven is the key thought.

Mathew 6:10 "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven".

This topic also has been explained. The Messages of God contain a twofold aspect, the unchangeable and the changeable.

So you are correct, there is the divine law that is unchangeable, that will never be abrogated and the changeable, the laws applicable to the age we live. The quote Abdul'baha noted in the above post, explains this with logic and reason.

Jesus also indicated the changeable aspects, in the quote from the Bible above in my other post, Jesus said he did not come to abrogate the Law, this is the unchangeable aspect, but also offers the aspect that must be changed.

Matthew 5:17-48 explains this in great detail, I ask how many people love up to those standards? Jesus offered the essence of the unchangeable laws of God in those passages.

Murder is subject to judgement, Jesus tells us that even anger is subject to Judgement and sets the judgement.

Look at adultery, there would be a lot of eyeless and handless people of we had personally implemented that law. Etc etc

The thing here is, is that it is the Messengers of God that bring back the eternal laws, refresh them and supplement them with the requirements of the age we live in.

An example from Baha'u'llah.

The bond of Marriage has been renewed as being a lawful bond between man and a woman. No sexual relations are permissible outside of this lawful bond, which supplicants what Jesus offered about Divirce, but now divorce is made permissible, but strongly discouraged. (Whole topic by itself, these few words nit adequate)

I only offer we have a great deal of things to consider in the age we live. An age when the values given by Jesus Christ have been eroded away, and needed to be renewed.

Regards Tony
 
Aupmanyav said:
Atheists too call for humaneness. What is supposed to be God's word has never united and always divided humanity.
You too are dividing us by telling that what Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists believe is not true,; and only what you say is true.
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A call for the good of all humanity is a great call from no matter what source it is voiced from. We can all work together with such a principle.

I would offer that it is not my Message that offers the Oneness of Humanity.

It is a standard that I have chosen to live by and I personally see no division in oneness. I just see a diversity that needs the motivation to bond.

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I see the Word of God does not need any of us to accept RJM. It remains the Word, it remains the life giving force, the call to humanity, no matter what we choose
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Well... if someone accepts one teaching and someone accepts another... how do we know who has "wisdom"?
All religions contains wisdom... many secular philosophies contain wisdom.
However they do not all say the same thing, and different ideas conflict with one another.
What is the guideline for discerning what is God's wisdom?
For Christians or Jews it seems straightforward enough, however even there it isn't, different opinions within each religion abound.
I know less about Baha'i, though I am to learn more.
My understanding is, the Baha'i faith identifies wisdom in all religions, or at least wise messengers within all.
But what happens when people disagree about an idea?
What is the tiebreaker?
 
TheLightWithin said:
Well... if someone accepts one teaching and someone accepts another... how do we know who has "wisdom"?
All religions contains wisdom... many secular philosophies contain wisdom.
However they do not all say the same thing, and different ideas conflict with one another.
What is the guideline for discerning what is God's wisdom?
For Christians or Jews it seems straightforward enough, however even there it isn't, different opinions within each religion abound.
I know less about Baha'i, though I am to learn more.
My understanding is, the Baha'i faith identifies wisdom in all religions, or at least wise messengers within all.
But what happens when people disagree about an idea?
What is the tiebreaker?
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Thank you for the questions. Personally I see we all must help each other as to what is from God and what is from our own selves. The first logical response to your question would be to determine who gave that teaching, and then determine if they could be seen as givers of God's Wisdom and in what capacity they can be seen. It is indeed a quandary amplified by our nature and nurture. First step maybe for humanity to agree on what can be seen as divine sources.

I see this can all happen through consultation and conversations, if our intention is to broaden our knowledge and understanding, then the truth unfolds to us.

Much can be discussed.

Regards Tony
 
muhammad_isa said:
Is anybody "binning Jesus" here?
I hope not .. I share my name with Jesus. :)
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I find very little similarity between the Isa of the Quran and Jesus of the New Testament
 
Aupmanyav said:
How will we bond when you say that what we believe is untruth and corrupted?
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Why have we not bonded with the truth that people currently hold to? Would that not indicate that we all need to consider that a change in our thoughts are needed?

Regards Tony
 
RJM said:
I find very little similarity between the Isa of the Quran and Jesus of the New Testament
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Well, it would be you then, that differentiates between Jehovah and Allah [the Most High] :)

Did Jesus believe in Jehovah? Yes.
More than that .. he is the Jewish Messiah.
His "dying and rising", according to your belief, fulfilled his being Messiah..
..whereas Jews and Muslims think otherwise.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Why have we not bonded with the truth that people currently hold to? Would that not indicate that we all need to consider that a change in our thoughts are needed?
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Your truth is different from the truth of all other religions. You do not even hesitate to brand what others believe as untruth. Why should I need to compromise with your truth which is falsehood for me (a God of the Abrahamic type, a unique type of messenger (manifestation, a mirror image of your God, sender of prophets, messengers and Mahdis), rebirth as a spirit or ghost (whatever), world turning into a heaven with accelptance of that Iranian said.
 
muhammad_isa said:
Well, it would be you then, that differentiates between Jehovah and Allah [the Most High] :)

Did Jesus believe in Jehovah? Yes.
More than that .. he is the Jewish Messiah.
His "dying and rising", according to your belief, fulfilled his being Messiah..
..whereas Jews and Muslims think otherwise.
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Quran Isa is so different from NT Jesus, as to be a different person, imo
Very little similarity
 
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Nobody ever learned anything about the real Jesus from reading the Quran, imo
 
Aupmanyav said:
Your truth is different from the truth of all other religions. You do not even hesitate to brand what others believe as untruth. Why should I need to compromise with your truth which is falsehood for me (a God of the Abrahamic type, a unique type of messenger (manifestation, a mirror image of your God, sender of prophets, messengers and Mahdis), rebirth as a spirit or ghost (whatever), world turning into a heaven with accelptance of that Iranian said.
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I would offer that It is not I that sees a different truth. Personally I embrace the Truth contained in all the worlds major religions, those thay have come from God.

What can be embraced, which is the foundation of all God given Faiths, is that which unites humanity. Love, Compassion, Mercy, Charity, Meekness, Goodwill, Benevolence etc, the bond of virtues.

If you have a religion that shares these unity building virtues, then we really have no division, our search for truth should not divide us.

I am personally able to embrace you as a friend in life.

The bond only breaks when the virtues are compromised by our own selfish thoughts and actions.

That also shows the Meekness of those that bring unity, especially the Messengers. They bring all these virtues for us to consider, but never force us to accept the advice.

Regards Tony
 
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