Of one being? Beyond this world of nature, where time and space no longer limit, there is no 'becoming'?
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Can you relate?
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
One in Spirit. They are all Annointed with the Holy Spirit. Baha'u'llah says that Oneness is as if they were One being.
We are born of the human spirit, which the body of the Messengers also share, but they are pre-existing. Baha'u'llah explains it in this way.
".....Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God!" He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. Thus, He hath revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not Thine!" And also He saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God." And were any of them to voice the utterance: "I am the Messenger of God," He also speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth. Even as He saith: "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but He is the Messenger of God." Viewed in this light, they are all but Messengers of that ideal King, that unchangeable Essence. And were they all to proclaim: "I am the Seal of the Prophets," they verily utter but the truth, beyond the faintest shadow of doubt. For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the "Beginning" and the "End," the "First" and the "Last," the "Seen" and "Hidden" --all of which pertain to Him Who is the innermost Spirit of Spirits and eternal Essence of Essences....." -- Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 178-179
Regards Tony
Can you explain it more simply, in your own words, perhaps? Is there a 'becoming' outside of time?
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Yes to your first question. Look at the words, first called, this is through the Word and then we have chosen, This is done by God, not us. God chooses those whom He chooses, not by works or good deeds or prayer and poor-taX.
Does one who prophesies mean that they are a Prophet? I think not. The word prophesy means to tell God’s Word. Repeating what is already written or given is not what a Prophet does. A Prophet brings new statements.
Considered it often, read hundreds of times. What is the “will of My Father in Heaven”. Many get this incorrect. God’s will is that all believe in His Son, Jesus. These people that he. casts out are running around doing “works”. But they certainly have never come to “KNOW” Jesus. “I never knew you”.
Astonishing! "Us" Did you miss the part where Jesus is speaking to His disciples???? and not to you! Only a born again believer has the Holy Spirit residing in them. He is not just floating around for anyone to use. Only God can give you the Holy Spirit.
Have you ever done a study on "chosen" in the Bible. It might benefit you to understand that God does all the choosing. God chose, Abraham, God chose Moses, God chose the Nation of Israel, and this Chosen move right into the NT.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Eph 1:3–5.
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
No man has the Holy Spirit but God's given Messengers, they One and All are Annointed before they are even born, they are pre-existing in the Holy Spirit, the First and Lasts. (The virgin birth is a great meditation)
Us, humans, who are born of the human spirit, given a soul at conception and the Bible tells us we must be born again.
What you have offered is exactly why men have persecuted the Messengers, men that elevate themselves to the rank of Messengers, thinking they have a share in the Holy Spirit. Matthew 23:12 "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."
There are very few with the humility, that submited to Jesus the Christ. God bless them one and all, they were the Martyrs. May God have mercy on the rest of us.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
The Bible warns of many false prophets, people that claim to give meaning from scriptures, but have no authority to do so.
Yet the Bible also tells us how to determine the True Prophets, thus the quandary.
So Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah have brought new statements, giving us new insight into the Words Jesus gave as Christ. The Words they revealed contain this fact that they are Messengers from God. It is up to us to judge them true or false by the standard Jesus asked us to apply.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Baha'u'llah has widened the scope of what it is to beleive in Christ. Jesus Christ is One with Krishna, One with Zoroaster, One with Mauhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Moses, Abraham, Buddha, to name a few.
That is God's Will as told by Baha'u'llah, we are one fold under ine Shepherd, God and all the Messengers are One with God.
So now we know all people, of all God given Faiths arr all doing works for the same cause.
How is it that humanity in not yet united? Did not Jesus come to bring us all together?
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Correct, we agree. Also please consider,
God chose Krishna, God chose Zoroaster, Muhammad, Buddha, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
One may have to consider how the Baha’i World center is on Mount Carmel, a mountain extolled in the Bible that would see the Glory of God (Baha'u'llah)
The mountain where Elijah lived in a cave, the Mountain where the Bab (Gate) is now enshrined and all Nations now flow up the Mountain of the Lord and the Law goes out from Zion.
Much to offer, only if one is open to new concepts about their own faith.
Glory be to God, the Lord of all the Worlds.
Regards Tony
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
Every charlatan or scammer would like to have it that way. Don't doubt even if I offer no proof.
Not really, imo. Do you see that as the core of what Jesus came here to do?
Father and son are human concepts to try to explain how Spirit (Father) begets nature (Son). Spirit is eternal and unchanging. Nature is impermanent and ever changing. It is the story of Adam and Eve, where the perfect spirit descends into nature and acquires a 'coat of skin'. Why? We don't know the answer to that question.
So you are talking about the Son in Jesus becoming the Father in Baha'u'llah, by the power of the Holy Spirit and I am asking what you mean by 'becoming' -- is there a becoming outside of time? Everything in nature is either growing or dying. But outside of space and time, there can be no such concept? So it is said that the Son is begotten of the Father before time began.
It's an attempt to convey a relationship between eternal Spirit and temporal nature.
Do you mean eternity as natural time extended infinitely into the future, or as a state outside of space and time?
@Tony Bristow-Stagg please try not to respond by posting a Baha'i tract?
Proof? Or evidence?
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
Very true..
G-d can also "unchoose" .. we have all heard about satan .. right?
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Once again, you state that you read the Bible, yet ignore so much of what it says. Every born again believer in Jesus has the Holy Spirit residing in them. The Holy Spirit transforms people who have the Holy Spirit living in them. I know this is way over your head, but try to just read the text of the Bible and let it speak to you without all your bias getting in the way.
The "virgin birth" was bring God into the world through flesh. Only happened once!
John 16:
16 “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; (Helper is Holy Spirit)
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
(Muslims try to claim that Jesus is talking about Muhammad here, no possible way, since Jesus states that the Holy Spirit is already with them, speaking about Himself as being the same as the Holy Spirit) Muhammad does not show up for another 500+ years.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 14:16–17.
26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. (the Holy Spirit is how John's Gospel was written, giving John clear remembrance of events)
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 14:26.
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
That is your belief, your interpretation of scripture.
My understanding is not the same. If you wish to know the source of my understanding, this is a good compilation on the reality and soul of man.
The Eternal Quest for God: Chapter 8
bahai-library.com
Chapter 6 is also worth pursuing.
Regards Tony
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That is not my opinion, it's exactly what Scripture says. EXACTLY
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Your "understanding" is predicated by someone beside you. You like what you read and buy into it, like most people do. It's ok, most people live like that. If it feels good, who cares about the truth. There are not a lot of different meaning in the Bible when it comes to it. But man has created all kinds of meaning to go along with what they want God to be.
Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I quote your statements.
"Every born again believer in Jesus has the Holy Spirit residing in them".
"The Holy Spirit transforms people who have the Holy Spirit living in them".
That is an interpretation of some Bible verses.
Verses such as 1 Corinthians 6:19 are not a done deal, even if one thinks a declaration makes it a sure thing.
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Faith requires effort and our submission unto all the commands and I see those verses in a different light, especially when one reads about the required deeds.
It is actually a big topic and I am always happy to discuss.
Regards Tony
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru.
No Jesus was a Jew and his message was only for the Jews, worshipers of YHWH, the God of Jews, after the time of Moses. Prior to that Jews worshiped many Gods and Goddesses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentile#Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahwism
Now, this is semantics.
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Tony Bristow-Stagg
One Planet One People Please
I see Jesus called the world to oneness.
John 17:21-23 "That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.."
Regards Tony